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Thread: Claymore 118 Discussion

  1. #76
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    I don't think we know (correct me if the manga does state what Dietrich's mission was with Galatea) whether Tracker Dietrich was just to "fetch" Galatea or to execute Galatea.

    And Dietrich, was likely a more powerful rank, and then got demoted to rank 8, after some failed mission (it might be her Galatea mission or another mission - I don't think the manga states which mission it was), though maybe Dietrich got demoted from rank 8 to a weaker rank, which I had originally entertained-leaned more towards, but not anymore, as I think Dietrich was probably a more powerful rank and then got demoted to rank 8, as one of the reasons being, you'd think the manga would tell what her new weaker rank is, instead it only tells of her rank as 8.
    The highest rank that Deitrich possessed was 8, the manga gives no indication that she was higher. The only time her rank changed was when she disappeared after an awakened hunt and was demoted. Deitrich doesn't even give the impression she's stronger than Renee or Anastasia, or wait did u mean that she was actually #1 and Alicia and Beth were #2 and #3 for awhile? Then maybe Riful or conjoined Luce/rafael yoke manipulated Deitrich into tripping on top of a handler and they got mad and demoted her to #8. Even though there's nothing in the manga to support that its the only possible logical explanation.

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  3. #77
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    the most likely rank available, would be rank 4, if Dietrich was demoted TO rank 8 instead of being demoted FROM rank 8 to rank ??.

    so for example, Dietrich was rank 4 and then got demoted to rank 8, and then Miata was promoted to rank 4.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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  5. #78
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    It's a possibility, HK. I mean, Dietrich's ability, while not amazing, is still probably better than what Audrey, Rachel, or Anastasia have shown. I don't think much of any of this generation's claymores, apart from Miata, but she's not even a claymore, really. She's just a strange child.

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  7. #79
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    Hi HK:

    From Helen and Deneve's initial encounter with Dietrich, I don't get the sense that she could have fought Galatea and "survived." Dietrich coudn't even handle a single AB, while Galatea made mince meat of Dauf (I believe she could have killed him, had Riful not intervened). She most likely served as the scout/tracker for a party of warriors assigned to kill or capture Galatea. I don't even think Audrey/Rachel could have handled Galatea.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse
    It's a possibility, HK. I mean, Dietrich's ability, while not amazing, is still probably better than what Audrey, Rachel, or Anastasia have shown. I don't think much of any of this generation's claymores, apart from Miata, but she's not even a claymore, really. She's just a strange child.
    While her ability is definitely better than Rachel's and possibly Anastasia's, I don't think it's better than Audrey's. Her defensive ability is only outmatched by Deneve's ability to regenerate like a mofo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedsmile
    Dietrich coudn't even handle a single AB,
    Hellen also had trouble with that AB IIRC and Deneve had to save her. He must have been pretty powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedsmile
    Galatea made mince meat of Dauf (I believe she could have killed him, had Riful not intervened)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickesmile
    I don't even think Audrey/Rachel could have handled Galatea.
    Yayz for Galatea!
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; October 03, 2011 at 04:05 AM.

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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    1. Clarice's Era of single digits aren't that weak, as they are capable of fighting/killing the AFs, right along-side with Miria herself: Audrey, Rachel, Nina, and (presumably would be single digits) the TAITs. Though these AFs are in their weakest (earliest) moment of existence (being equal to the more powerfully ranked half of ABs), not having accumulated/built up any combat data (well, actually they do, as both Miria and Audrey find themselves no longer being able to kill the AFs, just from within the very battle itself... the AFs sure improve/learn rapidly!).

    2. While Dietrich's Ability isn't that impressive... she herself has been!... even able to use her UNimpressive Ability to great success, despite it's Unimpressiveness, and even "saving the day" for quite a few Claymores (like our precious Yuma!) as well as Humans (Rabona Seige Battle). But, I'd rather not try to list all the impressive feats of Dietrich at this moment (though I will at some point, as that's something I definately should and need to do, as Dietrich deserves it, hehe. I've done so for Yuma already, and Dietrich is just as deserving as was Yuma, hehe) - as I'm a bit busy with school work currently, argh!

    3. I am not sure if this was said or not within the manga, but I thought that Dietrich said to Deneve+Helen that she could have handled the male AB (I presume it was male - no breasts like the female ABs -I think- always have, lol) on her own (and indeed she was the one who killed it, despite Deneve+Helen 's help, lol), but she did need help, but only for keeping alive/protecting her 3 other Claymores of her AB Hunting Team.

    4. Dietrich was given the mission of going after Galatea, which does say something (Dietrich is good enough to not get killed by Galatea, at the very least, lol), though unfortunately, we really know nothing about this mission... sighs...

    5. Clarice's Era of single digits are not that weak! Audrey, Rachel, Nina, and (presumably would be single digits) the TAITs, all could rival and kill the AFs, fighting right alongside Miria herself. However, these AFs were at their weakest (earliest) moment of their existence, being only as powerful as the more powerfully ranked half of ABs (ranks ?-23.5 or ranks ??-23.5, vs the less powerfully ranked half of ABs, ranks 23.5-47).

    6. Audrey did say to the implication that she was hiding her true power... and most (theorizingly) likely let Miria disable her, knowing that Miria wasn't going to kill her or the others, as she too was likely pretending to be loyal to the Org, just as Miria had pretended to be loyal to the Org.

    -now Rachel was at her limit, she was putting out her full power, and still Miria disabled her, to the friendly joke, teasing, and amusement of Audrey, hehe.

    7. Galatea did mention that Miata was a powerful warrior, though she never quantified what "powerful" meant, argh.

    However, Miata did label Galatea among Clare and Miria, as being "Very Strong".

    So, while we don't know what Galatea means by "powerful", if Galatea is "Very Strong", than Miata must be equally "very" powerful too. "If a powerful warrior calls you powerful, you must indeed be power yourself"

    and again, there's my interpretations of:

    (and a more complete argument by me, in fairness to others so they can see more in full of my content used for my case/view/argument that Miata is a rank 1)

    (1) Rimuto himself telling us that Miata is a rank 1
    (2) Rado also telling us that Miata is a rank 1
    (3) Miata's combat performance as a whole tells us that she is a rank 1
    (4) Specifically, Miata's raw brute strength power (amongst the Elite League of Teresa, Deneve, and ~Rafaela) tells us that she is a rank 1
    (5) Specifically, Miata's Speed and Agility tells us that she is a rank 1
    (6) Being assigned to execute Galatea by approval/confidence of both Rimuto and Rado, saying she's indeed capable of this mission
    (7) Agatha's fear of and her targetting of Miata, and not of Galatea. Agatha decided/felt that Miata was the threat to her, not Galatea. Agatha had to weaken Miata, because Miata was the more powerful and thus more dangerous one out of Miata and Galatea.

    and more subjectively...

    (8) Clarice being scared/terrified/fearful (Clarice's "spider sensors" were flashing wildly) of Miata and of her Power Level. Either strangely Clarice wasn't afraid of Agatha or Clarice wasn't afraid of rank 2 Awakened Agatha because she-Clarice had the rank 1 Miata to be more afraid of! Also, note that Clarice only ran away when Agatha had weakened Miata, does this say that Miata was indeed a rank 1 and more powerful than Agatha, until Agatha had weakened down Miata? Though... we got the problem of Clarice's "running away" suddenly becoming a "teleportation" of an attack upon Agatha from behind!!! I'm still confused by this, by Clarice... lol. I mean WTF! Clarice was a very good distance away in her retreat, and the next instant, she's now attacking Agatha from behind... either Clarice is super uber fast (more than ch 118+ Miria!) or Clarice can "teleport" ... argh !!! .. again WTF!!!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    about power comparisons, my take on it:

    rank 5 Rachel is alright, she was one of the Claymores able to hold her own against the AFs, and this does match up with the rest of the manga's content of ranks 1-5 being able to solo kill strong ABs, and these AFs without any combat data, were only as strong as strong ABs. Unfortunately, we never get to see Teresa's Era's counter part of rank 5 Elda at all (unless Elda was the Gonahl single digit female AB), argh!

    rank 7 Anastasia is definately weaker than the rest as seen thus far, having trouble against a group of weak male ABs, however, let's not forget that rank 7 Eva from Clare's Era had herself and her entire AB Hunting Team wiped out, although she was against the 30 strong male ABs, lol. So, not really too fair a comparison, lol, but meh.

    rank 6 Renee, we don't know about in terms of combat ability, but her ("Mental" and/or Sensing) Yoki Abilities are quite impressive. She does seem to be similar to Claymore Miria, with the additional impressive ("Mental" and/or Sensing) Yoki Abilities which Miria didn't and still doesn't have herself. Galatea does mention believing that Renee was with Rafaela, ordered to ensure that all 24 Claymores of the Pieta Battle died, which does make one wonder/consider Renee as quite powerful, to be able to kill off the 24 or less Claymores along with Rafaela.

    rank 9 Nina (and her group), just like Anastasia and her group, got pwned by a group of (unfortunately unknown strength - I think anyways) ABs (alive/saved only thanks to the Ghosts). However, Nina is now amongst the Claymores who can handle the AFs. Now this might be due to help, teamwork, and/or protection of/from the others (including her+Audrey+Rachel vs Cassandra) in not getting killed by the AFs. So, we can't really tell how capable she herself is. However, her Sword Technique is very powerful. This makes her quite similar to her counter part from Clare's Era, rank 9 Jean. Now, unfortunately, we don't know how good Jean herself was, due to unfair opponents (presumably Dauf, as I doubt Jean and her AB Hunting Team failed to kill Riful's NYs, lol) and then due to possible improvement due to being a HA, as seen by her surviving Rigardo's attacks upon her (and she might very well have continued to survive against Rigardo, if she hadn't fatally-self-stupidly made that moronic attack upon Rigardo that had no chance of hitting Rigardo and every chance of being fatal to her, which indeed it was so).

    rank 8 Dietrich (see above from top of post). A question for you guys/girls: Dietrich vs Ophelia, who would win or would it be a "draw" (an even match)?. Now if Dietrich is a rank 4, it does fit her well into place with the others based on what we've seen of Dietrich's impressive feats, despite her UNimpressive Ability. As a rank 4, Dietrich would be inferior to Galatea and Audrey, but superior to Rachel, Renee, Anastasia, and Nina. Which I think (anyways, lol), is a reasonable conclusion, or do you guys/girls, think that Rachel, Renee, Anastasia, and/or Nina are superior to Dietrich?

    rank 3 Audrey. she's a bit more unknown as well as being subjective too. we do know for a fact that she is a single digit in power, as she's one of the Claymores rivalling/killing the AFs. the subjectiveness comes in whether she's equal to Galatea or not, which is hard to say, as we just haven't really seen much of Audrey, and it's made worse by the subjectiveness of whether you belief that she let Miria disable her or not, whether Audrey is hiding her true power or not. And let's not forget she got pwned by Cassandra, who's a rank 1, as she should be getting pwned, lol. If a rank 9 and 22 can be one of the most destructive Claymores (Jean and Helen) via her Sword Technique (Drill Sword and Extendable Drill Sword), than why can't an Ability cause a rank 5 be a rank 1? We do have the example of the powerful QS, and while I certainly wouldn't say Irene herself is weak as I certainly do not think she is, the power of the QS is undeniably great regardless. So, my point is that Cassandra pwning Audrey, shouldn't be used against deciding upon what Audrey's power level is, as I'm sure Cassandra would pwn Galatea as well. And, let's not exclude Audrey's Sword Technique either. It is quite an interesting Sword Technique, which can be quite powerful (the more powerful the opponent's attacks, the more powerful Audrey's Gentle Sword, case in point: Audrey vs Riful, lol).
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; October 03, 2011 at 04:00 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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  13. #82
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
    (1) Rimuto himself telling us that Miata is a rank 1
    (2) Rado also telling us that Miata is a rank 1
    (3) Miata's combat performance as a whole tells us that she is a rank 1
    (4) Specifically, Miata's raw brute strength power (amongst the Elite League of Teresa, Deneve, and ~Rafaela) tells us that she is a rank 1
    (5) Specifically, Miata's Speed and Agility tells us that she is a rank 1
    (6) Being assigned to execute Galatea by approval/confidence of both Rimuto and Rado, saying she's indeed capable of this mission
    (7) Agatha's fear of and her targetting of Miata, and not of Galatea. Agatha decided/felt that Miata was the threat to her, not Galatea. Agatha had to weaken Miata, because Miata was the more powerful and thus more dangerous one out of Miata and Galatea.

    Moderator message by: HegemonKhan
    I used those sources as well (and thank you for providing them WSK), we just simply and obviously completely have polar opposite analysis and interpretations about the manga content, hehe
    Again, here's my own counter arguments from my previous post, and here's the manga sources I referenced as well:

    Quote Originally Posted by WSK
    Spoiler show


    Spoiler show
    Quote Originally Posted by WSK
    Neither of them ever said that. They said she has always had the potential to aim for number one but her mental instability (and most likely her age/lack of experience) prevented her from reaching her potential. She is a number 4 but Rimuto was never able to give her single-digit missions because she would go crazy. Killing Galatea wasn't a rank 1 mission, it was a rank 3-4 mission. Galatea is powerful but the Org didn't know about her improved abilities (they probably assumed she just got much weaker) and she is a defensive while Miata is a talented offensive. I really really like Miata (she's my 3rd favorite after Teresa and Galatea) but you are hyping her WAY too much. You can't honestly tell me you believe Teresa, Rafaela, Alicia, Beth, Hysteria, Roxanne or Cassandra wouldn't have faired better in the Agatha/Galatea fight than did Miata, or that Miata would be doing as well as all of them have in their fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by WSK
    That is confirmation of him giving a number 4 with steadily increasing capabilities a mission suited for her as a number 4.
    Quote Originally Posted by WSK
    For reasons stated earlier, it is not a rank 1 mission.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; October 04, 2011 at 09:51 PM.

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  15. #83
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    HK, you make some good points, but then again, you've told me all of that before, so I've read it all before. :P

    I wasn't calling Dietrich's ability "unimpressive," more that it wasn't flashy or overly powerful. It's still better than what Rachel, Nina, and Anastasia have.

    For example, Clare's QS and Miria's Phantom and Mirage are very flashy, powerful moves. Dietrich's ability isn't on the level of any of those three abilities, but it's not bad.

    The top tier of the current generation are losing to the AFs, you can take that as you will, but not all of them have exactly good showings against weak ABs, such as Nina and Anastasia. They're not weak claymores, they just don't match up to previous generations' claymores of similar ranks.

    Renee's part of the previous generation, so again, she doesn't fall under my definition of this generation's weak claymores. I said that Nina, Rachel, and Anastasia suck, which is basically true. They don't have the power to match up against a Rank 5 with a good technique. Irene > Cassandra, but Irene was only surpassed in her era because of Teresa and Priscilla, the two strongest claymores in history. Irene admits that she's not the best in each area of combat, as 3 and 4 are better than her in specific areas. Still, Irene was clearly strong than the other two. I think that Irene was more than a Rank 5 with a good technique. Irene seemed skilled and it wasn't just QS that made her a Rank 1. With Cassandra, it's solely Dust Eater.

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  17. #84
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    I like Nina's ability a lot. If an over-all stronger Claymore had it, it'd be a terrifying technique indeed.

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  19. #85
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    Re: Claymore 118 Disc/119 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    HK, you make some good points, but then again, you've told me all of that before, so I've read it all before. :P

    I wasn't calling Dietrich's ability "unimpressive," more that it wasn't flashy or overly powerful. It's still better than what Rachel, Nina, and Anastasia have.

    For example, Clare's QS and Miria's Phantom and Mirage are very flashy, powerful moves. Dietrich's ability isn't on the level of any of those three abilities, but it's not bad.

    The top tier of the current generation are losing to the AFs, you can take that as you will, but not all of them have exactly good showings against weak ABs, such as Nina and Anastasia. They're not weak claymores, they just don't match up to previous generations' claymores of similar ranks.

    Renee's part of the previous generation, so again, she doesn't fall under my definition of this generation's weak claymores. I said that Nina, Rachel, and Anastasia suck, which is basically true. They don't have the power to match up against a Rank 5 with a good technique. Irene > Cassandra, but Irene was only surpassed in her era because of Teresa and Priscilla, the two strongest claymores in history. Irene admits that she's not the best in each area of combat, as 3 and 4 are better than her in specific areas. Still, Irene was clearly strong than the other two. I think that Irene was more than a Rank 5 with a good technique. Irene seemed skilled and it wasn't just QS that made her a Rank 1. With Cassandra, it's solely Dust Eater.
    Seriously, I think a lot of Yagi been leaving a lot of black hole in this story.

    Take for instance Teresa era. Hardly anyone seen a AB except for Irene.
    http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Claymore/022.027/69

    Now look at Cassandra pass. WTF! They been fighting AB, thus meaning her lower rank friend and Roxanne. Where are all the Yoma's? Now how did Teresa even got that strong, she only fought with Rosemary. Was Teresa and Irene the only two that were sent to kill AB? Not even Noel and Sophia knew about them.

    How does little Priscilla > Threat to all AO's? She only a rank 2 and she got best by Teresa. "Big black hole here!" "Too many theory too many speculation."

    It's like my theory. I think there are rank#1 and rank#5 who has special ability to make them rank#1. True powerful rank #1 and #2 are Teresa, Priscilla, Roxanne, Hysteria, the 3 AO's, first Twins, Refeala, and Miata(If she's not crazy).

    I think Miria, Clare, Deneve, Galatea, Casandra, Irene, Rosemary, etc... are just rank#5 with special ability to fill in until a powerful claymore takes the number one rank.

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