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Thread: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    Gensuru was obviously extremely strong and lost because he greatly underestimated his enemy and Gon was well prepared. But throughout the fight it felt somewhat obvious that Gensuru would not stand a chance against Biscuit. First of all, say even if she was not at his level - she could have also prepared to fight him. Secondly, the fact that he underestimated his opponent and was able to have his own attacks not only predicted but have the whole battle lured in Gon's direction shows he really isn't that great of a fighter.

    Was it part of Gon's training? By fighting someone that is not even close to his level he would gain rapid growth (but would it be worth the risk and it seemed like they were having a lot of trouble)? But perhaps that is also part of the training - you cannot always rely on someone else and you have to come up with the plan yourself. Was it that Biscuit also was hiding something? Or was it because the only chance they really had was with Gon? Obviously Gon was probably the only one who could go along with that plan - with his stubborn, straightforward, and persistent attitude. But it really did not seem like Gensuru was at the level of Biscuit not only because I feel like Biscuit has a lot of potential (at age 57 she's been training for 40? years and obviously knows what she is doing) but also it just seems like Gensuru isn't way too strong.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kiba's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    because she trained killua and gon to beat these guys
    isnt it easy to understand
    and gon said he will take down gensuru

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    Once gon sets his mind on something he does not back down. Bisk and killua know this, hence why gon was allowed to fight IMO.

    I did kinda think bisk was the logical choice here though. IMO gensuru would not have been in her level, it would have been like the difference between knuckle and murao (master and apprentice). Heck, it does not really seem like gensuru was stronger than even knuckle.

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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    Because Gon was the one who really wanted to defeat Gensuru.

    HUNTER x HUNTER
    Isaac Netero

    "That's A Bad Move... Little Ant"

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Refraction's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    The question's a good one--and, off the top of my head, I couldn't point to any concrete incentives on the part of Biscuit as to why Gon was elected to battle with Genthru. However, some glances at the material printed in volumes 15-18 go some way to illuminating possible motivations on the part of Gon's team--and further portrayals of the relationship between Gon and Killua with Biscuit in volume 20 assist in underscoring that it is perhaps Biscuit's mere modus operandi --her way of doing things--that gave birth to the battle between Gon and Genthru.

    In the volumes following Biscuit's introduction, her character is portrayed as being unreasonable in her demands, an impression created not simply by the severity of the tasks that she demands Gon and Killua perform--digging to Masadora; sleeping with rocks dangling overhead--but because these painful demands are offset against the comparatively tame exercises that her student, Wing, had them perform previously. Her way of teaching is plainly brutal; it's almost antiquated--she's far older than Wing, so it's not too much of an imaginative leap to say that she believes in older, more disciplinarian ways of schooling people rather than the more contemporary and forgiving teachings of her student--which engenders an impression that she might be a little bit too demanding, and perhaps a little too expecting, of her pupils. Her methods are symbolic of bygone days when teachings were stricter and perhaps out of touch; these antediluvian methods of teaching are necessary in communicating Biscuit's persona as the archetypal old sage/sensei character that most shounen manga possess--it's an intentional quality, one that is instrumental in shaping Biscuit's reasoning for Gon doing battle with Genthru. Gon is often touted as being dead-set on his objectives--but it's worth bearing in mind that Biscuit is every bit as unflinching in her methods, proving unrelenting and no-nonsense in her approach; when Gon is tasked with perfecting his emission exercises in the latter half of volume 17, Biscuit recognises that his probability of success is low, yet she leaves the task up to him anyway, and it is very telling]that Togashi introduces Cookie the magical masseuse mere pages after she gives Gon this task. Cookie was used to heal Gon and expedite his training during the battle with Knuckle, and it could have done exactly the same here--yet she chooses not to heal him in this instance. Biscuit betrays signs here that she fosters some high expectations of Gon; her refusal to employ Cookie implies a stubborn belief in Gon and the rightness of her teachings that is later shown to be misplaced: he fails the task--Biscuit doesn't always get things right. Putting Gon in her place to fight Genthru was a gamble. She has her own reasons for wanting to win Greed Island--she wants Blue Planet, after all--so she does want victory over Genthru, but her instinctive nature to take risks means that she's content to weigh up the permutations that could--not certainly--give rise to victory which also indulge Gon and Killua's preferences. In volume 20, Biscuit explains to Killua that calculated odds of victory--predicated on the unlikely assumption of each competitor being at 100% capacity on the day of the fight--are undesirable traits to foster in battle; a weak opponent can still beat a stronger opponent on the stronger person's off-day; so although having her take on Genthru made the most sense from a tactical perspective, it is not a plan that marries well with her approach to combat and teaching. It's not all about percentages and likely-hoods for Biscuit--that was the way Killua operated, and she scolded him for this way of thinking. Biscuit's beliefs are those of experienced nen users--something made clear when Morel foreshadows her words in volume 19, when he states that you should always fight as if "you're 100% positive that you can win"--she recognises that so much is variable when combat is involved: gambling is something she would long have been used to if this approach to battle was a modus operandi she'd been espousing for long. At this stage, she wouldn't be averse to taking risks, suggesting that her belief in Gon is based on her own combat orthodoxy and life experiences. Hitherto, her teachings to Gon and Killua had largely been successful; from her perspective, a belief in Gon's abilities would logically not be misplaced. Even though his victory was not guaranteed, she acted as if she was, in Morel's words, "100% confident" that he would win; because her thinking as a nen-user would not permit her to consider his loss, Gon's victory was never in question for her after sufficient precautions had been taken. Ergo, there was no longer any profit to be gained from her fighting Genthru--in her eyes, victory was logically ensured whether it be her or Gon fighting--whereas much could be gained from letting Gon do the dirty work.

    Biscuit's selection of Gon for the battle with Genthru may also have been based on psychological perspectives to battle. Following the dodge-ball game, Gon was the one to openly retort to Genthru when communications were opened through the binders. As an opponent, Genthru may potentially have been most expecting of Gon as his challenger when battle rolled around. Biscuit states in volume 17 that they--Gon's team--can't let Genthru know that they'd been preparing for battle the whole time. Were it the case that Biscuit was made to confront Genthru alone, Genthru could feasibly have questioned why it wasn't Gon, the one who so vehemently decried his methods, that chose to go up against him. Biscuit could perhaps have aroused too much suspicion--she wouldn't have been the natural choice--which would have been counter-productive in that Genthru would have erected some defence against her--perhaps even to the tune of rallying together his buddies against the unlikely threat, negating the one-on-one fighting style that Gon's team had been planning to create. Biscuit states during her fight with Bara, after revealing her true form, that one should "never show one's hand" in battle--something that having her fight against Genthru would have been, effectively. Pitting Gon against Genthru best created the circumstance for the latter to underestimate Gon; with Biscuit already shown to have a capacity for going for long-shots, she would've likely been happy enough with Gon's chances under these conditions. Objectively, Gon's chances look unreasonably low--a lot of the fight is plotted around educated guesses as to how Genthru will fight and respond--but Biscuit has been shown to make unreasonable demands of him in the past, such as requests for fighting with a "less than 1% margin of error", so this sort of match-up doesn't conflict with her beliefs as to what is reasonable to expect and stipulate. As identified in the opening post, Genthru more or less does flow with the educated guesses Gon's team made; Biscuit may well have evaluated that Genthru was a decent test for Gon, and such was her tendency to risk--and such was her lofty strength of belief--that she believed Gon could triumph.

    Or maybe the whole reason for the Gon vs. Genthru fight was Yoshihiro Togashi simply trying to make the fight more interesting by creating the most desirable tournament match-ups in the way that earned him such renown in Yu Yu Hakusho!
    Last edited by Refraction; August 09, 2011 at 03:56 PM.

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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    Thank you for your answers. Especially Refraction you had a very nice well thought out explanation. I have to agree that the strongest reason was for Gon's training. But I guess the main reason for my suspicion was that they risked a lot in this. It was not only Gon but they also had (I forgot his name) run around for 3 weeks with a high probability of being killed. And besides that they would have also known that Gensuru would hunt down/kill other players on his hunt for the last two cards. But as Refraction said it does seem like Biscuit is somewhat childish, selfish, and unreasonable (maybe these terms are a little harsh and improper - the word I'm looking for is sort of わがまま). She has her own methods and sticks to them whether reasonable or not. But when you mentioned Morel, besides what he said to Killua, it also reminded me of what Biscuit said to Killua - his greatest weakness which is also Gon's greatest strength, optimistic fighting mentality. So it was important for his training - and I agree even if Biscuit did defeat Gensuru - it would have had no effect on Gon - actually perhaps a negative impact in which he would feel unworthy, especially to take victory of Greed Island. It just seemed like Biscuit and the whole group were way too worried about fighting Gensuru and were almost at the point of panic- for example while Killua was thinking of a plan he asked Biscuit for her ability (meaning to help aid in the fight). But I guess that also shows more that Biscuit wanted to let Gon fight because she clearly has more strength the just the massage healing girl and the fact she hid it shows that she wanted to allow the two to fight on their own. I guess it's also what makes Hunter X Hunter such a different manga. You have real senses of danger and death that it is necessary to have great risks, even in training. If Gon couldn't manage to beat Gensuru then there was no way he could have managed against the ants (well at least get as far as he did).

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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    A few more points-

    You can see that when Gon is still trying to learn the lvl 5 emission technique, Biscuit and Killua are looking at Huge Ass stones. It is probable that Biscuit had already taught Gon what she knew he really needed in order to win, and used his current motivation in order to learn a higher level technique.

    As in, that whole training was not designed at beating Genthru at all, but to give him more experience with training.

    A few interesting details:
    -Biscuit comments on the 'unreasonable demands' of Netero, and Wing is even more laid back than Biscuit.
    -Biscuit wanted gon to be able to instinvtively use Kou on his foreharm in less thna 0.001 second before he began the emission training.
    -NEN is greatly about real life experience in order to 'concertize' training. You don't gain much ability if you don't gamble (this is seen, especially, when Killua take off the needle).

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Popo's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    From Sasaki Hisashi's Twitter:
    SASAKI_Hisashi SHONENJUMP SASAKI
    I can`t stand being on the losing end forever!! (Gon from #Hunte×Hunter epi.176 vol.18)

    The scanlation translated it as "I hate having to take a beating like this," but the situation was more important than that. For the main protagonist in the series, Gon loses an awful lot. He never has a victory against someone stronger than him that is entirely his own doing, which he hates. He took on Genthru because he had a personal grudge against him, but also to prove to himself that he's strong.

    Gon wants power. He wants to be strong enough to take care of himself, but he is always overshadowed despite everyone's insistence at his talent. His recent transformation was an accumulation of his feelings of both loss and weakness. In his mind, if he had been stronger, Kite wouldn't have died. If he had been stronger, he could have beaten Razor by himself. He could have beaten Hisoka. He could have beaten the Phantom Troupe. Unfortunately, he feels these things so powerfully that simultaneously he recklessly believes that he actually can do them. Which is why he gets so severely hurt in all of his fights. Hanzo could have killed him and taken the exam next year; Gon got lucky. When visiting Killua's home at Kukuroo Mountain, he would have been killed by the guard dog Mike if he had chosen to just break into the house. He almost was murdered by the Phantom Troupe twice. He could have easily died in the fight against Genthru, his larynx busted and half of his arm blown off. But even after he gains the power to defeat Pitou, his recklessness doesn't subside and it isn't a good thing. He still loses an arm, and it might be permanent this time.

    Gon is a very flawed character, but he's all the more interesting because of it.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member NoFreakingWay's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    I just think Biscuit wants to win with the least involvement of nen.

    Their plan to lure Gensuru into a trap was perfect if Gon was the guy to go up against him. Biscuit might think Gensuru would underestimate Gon so much that he wouldn't suspect some kind of plan that didn't rely much on battle ability and nen was set for him. However I have to admit this was kind of risky given Gon's stubbornness to fight him with all that he's got, so I'm kinda assuming Biscuit believes in Gon enough to not completely screw up the plan and survive with the training she gave him.

    Besides if Biscuit had to face Gensuru she'd have to use the buff shemale-looking true form, which she dislikes. With this she gauged Sabu and Bara to be weak enough to be tackled by Killua and her disguise. Killua's yoyo makes it so that he doesn't have to exert much nen, something that Biscuit probably took into account. Gon doesn't have that kind of accessory, so he makes more sense as bait for a big trap for a big enemy.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    Well, she used her buffed form against gensuru's friend, I don't think it would have made a difference to her to use it against gensuru. To be honest I don't see any particular reason for her not to have fought him other than gon being so desperate to do it. heck, odds are bisk could have countered gensuru's little flower with her nen alone and still beat the crap out of him.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member NoFreakingWay's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, she used her buffed form against gensuru's friend, I don't think it would have made a difference to her to use it against gensuru. To be honest I don't see any particular reason for her not to have fought him other than gon being so desperate to do it. heck, odds are bisk could have countered gensuru's little flower with her nen alone and still beat the crap out of him.
    Yep, but she'd not want to use that form cuz she hates reverting to it. It's too buff she says. That's why she picked an opponent she knew she could defeat with her younger form.

    Gensuru would most likely force her to use the form.

    Gon's desperate but Biscuit's the boss at that point, there's nothing really Gon can do but to just follow her instructions. Good thing for him cuz he got the fight he wanted.

    Also I think Biscuit's like Hisoka in that she's kinda moody and choosy, like all Transformation users are. At that time Biscuit probably just didn't give a damn about facing Gensuru.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    But she didn't beat him with her younger form nor could she. She ultimately was forced to rely on her true form.

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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    She also was planning to use her true form from the start. 'As i thought, he is taking no damage' or some such.

    I really think it was just training for Gon.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BurnSchulz's Avatar
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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    "How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?"

    Well, mostly just because Gon wanted to fight him so bad, and they couldn't change his mind.
    She allowed him because they had the great plan.

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    Re: How come Biscuit didn't fight Gensuru?

    Gensuru is the aggressor and he's the one who picked the order to attack, not Gon. Gensuru already picked who he's going to fight before even negotiating with Gon, so it's not like his decision was affected by whatever Gon was thinking. Gensuru didn't even know anything about the enemies he was fighting, so it looked like he just went with the "I got the leader" approach, which is a perfectly reasonable approach. Killua must have reasoned that Gensuru was most likely to go after the leader which would be Gon. There is nothing stopping Gensuru from chasing after Killua or Biscuit instead, though if the former happened Killua can just use one of his extra cards to teleport next to either Biscuit or Gon, and Biscuit is clearly quite capable of fighting Gensuru on her own too.

    Ultimately you can say this matchup was really more like a controlled exercise, because even if their plan totally failed, they could still use the extra teleports and either meet back up with Biscuit, or just escape and Gensuru's group was out of teleports. The outcome happened to go with the plan, but even if it didn't, they weren't in any danger just by the virtue of having more teleport cards.
    Last edited by Phantron; September 08, 2011 at 03:06 AM.

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