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Thread: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner packages's Avatar
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    Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Let me preface.

    I've read all of the chapters up until currently, (waiting on 444.) I've also watched most of the anime and understand where the plots weave in and out of one another.
    I've just recently, thanks to Netflix begun watching Bleach from the beginning again. During the first 11 or so episodes, it becomes apparent that Isshin is fairly oblivious to the existence of hollows, although he does recognize that there are spirits, and that Ichigo can see them.

    There are a few examples, all of which could lean one way or the other in theory:
    Example A: One of Ichigo's first encounters with a hollow leaves a large hole bore in the wall of his home. His father is convinced that it was a truck, as is the rest of his family.

    Now the obvious response would be that Rukia had erased the memories of that family afterward. However, Isshin being a long-time Shinigami would (I would think) have some hunch as to otherwise.
    He did not even sense the spiritual presence of the hollow, or other hollows that appear afterwards.

    Such as the King Fisher, when the Kurosaki family visits the grave of Ichigo's mother, taking Karin and Yuzu hostage.
    Or during Don Kanonji's first appearance in the series, attempting to perform an "execution" on a Demi-Hollow. Isshin claims to have not even heard the screams coming from this hollow, nor does he recognize Urahara's presence at said event.

    There are debunk theories to this that mainly revolve around not blowing his cover, but his duties as a previous Soul Reaper (or at least my understanding of them) would mean that he would have at least attempted to intervene in such a situation, no?

    Furthermore, he seems genuinely oblivious to these situations and really is nowhere to be found even when in close proximity to the location of a hollow.

    There may be plot holes in my logic, but my theory is that Isshin was never meant to be an ex-Soul Reaper.


    By the way, just joined these forums today, and look forward to being a part of the community!

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Tabaro Foka's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Isshin was shinigami.This is without a doubt.Isshin is very strong shinigami.He has definetly an intersting history in Soul Society and is kept in secret.If you look cerfully his haori was similar to White Coat of Captain Shinigami .Evey Captain Shinigami have inside of their haori different color-Hitsugaya-green,Soi Fon-orange,Shunsui-red,Ukitake-dark red,Byakuya-blue and so on.It is intersting that Isshin color inside is the samo color purple like this of 1 Division Captain Commander Yamamoto.Purple is the color commonly associated with royality is west coltures and with death in Asian culures.

    In Japan murashaki(purple) was used by this of hight rank.So I will said that Isshin was of very hight rank in Soul Society not just a captain.Like we know so he is most likely Captain or vice-captain of 0 Squad.What will be shocking for me is that Isshin was former Captain comander of Gotei 13 and was promoted in 0 Squad.This will mean that Ishhin is over 1000 year old lol.

    I think Isshin was from the noble clan that resides in Royal Dimension.Come on how many shinigamis have tehnique beyond bankai like Final Getsuga Tenshou.And Isshin said that Getsuga Tensho was mastered during the generation in his family.So for me Isshin was Royal Guard from the highest class.His clan always were in Royal Dimension.This is why none of Gotei 13 showed us to know Getsuga Tenshou or to hear about it.

    It is really good move of Kubo that ripe off his Divison.How will react Gotei 13 or Ichigo whe see 0 Divison on his haori.I only wish to see Bayakya reaction lol.

    He is father on the main hero of Bleach.He is 100% big fish like Luffy father the dragon and naruto the fourth hokage.Most of shounen mangas fathers of the main heroes are legendary and very powerfull in their worlds.
    Last edited by Tabaro Foka; April 13, 2011 at 05:40 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    I think the point packages was trying to make is that Isshin being a shinigami seems more like just something that happened as the story progressed, rather than being a part of Kubo's idea for the story from the beginning.

    I don't necessarily agree. I like to think Isshin was acting the whole time while his only son was going around the city with a young woman and fighting evil monsters. -_-

    Isshin explained to Kon that he never referred to him as Ichigo whenever he was inside Ichigo's body, so maybe there was some sort of planning on that part? Idk.

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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    I think the point packages was trying to make is that Isshin being a shinigami seems more like just something that happened as the story progressed, rather than being a part of Kubo's idea for the story from the beginning.
    Exactly.
    I see your point pertaining to Isshin pretending, and the evidence is there in the sense that it is not really there. You would never know whether or not Isshin ever referred to Kon as Ichigo, because there was never really any interaction shown between the two. Only suspicions of Kon not being very Ichigo like around his sisters. I suppose I'll have to continue watching the series from the start in order to fully form this hypothesis, taking into consideration the series and the manga do differ at times.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member kazeofsilence's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Kubo stated a few years ago that he knew/decided Isshin was a Shinigami since the end of the first chapter of Bleach. A fairly good example hinting at this actually was part of the Don Kanonji Introduction arc. Isshin tried to sneak away from Yuzu and Karinin the crowd in order to assist Ichigo when he was detained by the security for the event. Yuzu took notice and reprimanded him thinking that Isshin was trying to do the same as Ichigo and coincidently this scene also lead into the pre-introduction cameo of Uryuu.

    Also, how Isshin acted in general through the beginning of the manga made it apparent that he was preparing Ichigo for the day he might have to defend himself from what was inevitably to come.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    There's this too:

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-641-11...apter-187.html

    I think Kubo definitely had a more subtle way of showing it, if it WAS an afterthought, he pulled it off quite nicely then :P

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member niblack89's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabaro Foka View Post
    Isshin was shinigami.This is without a doubt.Isshin is very strong shinigami.He has definetly an intersting history in Soul Society and is kept in secret.If you look cerfully his haori was similar to White Coat of Captain Shinigami .Evey Captain Shinigami have inside of their haori different color-Hitsugaya-green,Soi Fon-orange,Shunsui-red,Ukitake-dark red,Byakuya-blue and so on.It is intersting that Isshin color inside is the samo color purple like this of 1 Division Captain Commander Yamamoto.Purple is the color commonly associated with royality is west coltures and with death in Asian culures.

    In Japan murashaki(purple) was used by this of hight rank.So I will said that Isshin was of very hight rank in Soul Society not just a captain.Like we know so he is most likely Captain or vice-captain of 0 Squad.What will be shocking for me is that Isshin was former Captain comander of Gotei 13 and was promoted in 0 Squad.This will mean that Ishhin is over 1000 year old lol.

    I think Isshin was from the noble clan that resides in Royal Dimension.Come on how many shinigamis have tehnique beyond bankai like Final Getsuga Tenshou.And Isshin said that Getsuga Tensho was mastered during the generation in his family.So for me Isshin was Royal Guard from the highest class.His clan always were in Royal Dimension.This is why none of Gotei 13 showed us to know Getsuga Tenshou or to hear about it.

    It is really good move of Kubo that ripe off his Divison.How will react Gotei 13 or Ichigo whe see 0 Divison on his haori.I only wish to see Bayakya reaction lol.

    He is father on the main hero of Bleach.He is 100% big fish like Luffy father the dragon and naruto the fourth hokage.Most of shounen mangas fathers of the main heroes are legendary and very powerfull in their worlds.
    You get reps for this. I don't give them out often. It was interesting it would make since, Isshin's Engetsu is extremely powerful and its getsuga tenshio is powerful even in base level its destructive power if great. Its power should been known at least to old man Yamamotto.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    As someone already stated, Kubo already revealed in an interview that he pretty much planned Isshin being a shinigami from the beginning of this manga. When Grand Fisher escaped after his fight with Ichigo, and Isshin walked away from Ichigo and gave him advice that went something to the effect of "try and die smiling" or something, I felt that moment that Isshin knew something he wasn't letting on.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Tabaro Foka's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Today reread the chapter 188 when Ishhin speak with Urahara.Isshin mantioned somehing very intersting that he was on mission to search for the Vizords.His words are"The crminal group of ex-shinigami that uses forbidden spells to acquire the power of hollows.We never found their base or operations nor uncovered their goals.They are a tough one".
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-642-11...apter-188.html

    So Isshin wasn't alone when he searched them.Who do you think was with him?I think Isshin was with captain level shinigamis to search for them.Why because like we know Visored are former captains and vice captains.I think Isshin was send to elimnate them because they are dengarous or at least they said this to him.My theory is that Isshin was send with members of squad 0 to kill them.

    Why Squad 0?

    The Royal Guard is a special organization that performs services for the Royal family. It has a considerable amount of fighting, organizational, and executive power compared to other organizations.The royal guard's existence are extremely conceal that even the gotei 13 couldn't grasp their virtual conditions.

    Why not Soul King to considers this former 4 captains and 4 vice captains for serious danger?And he send for the real world some shinigamis with skills and one of them was Isshin.But like old Kurosaki said they never found them and give up.And Isshin made his dession to live in Karakura town.What do you think?Is it possible?
    Last edited by Tabaro Foka; April 19, 2011 at 11:25 AM.

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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    the Way Bleach is nothing is certain, it will b e like last minute certainity and next chapter every thing turned to be sth else with a hell lot of explanation which are trivial otherwise(like never calling ichigo by name when Kon was on, no one found it strange esp when ppl generally dont say ichigo do this ichigo do that rather do this do that when they are talking)
    i wager kubo made the plot go as he pleased
    he never had anything planned after SS arc which explains Y the poor quality after the superb saving rukia arc and to bring back the polularity similar (saving orihime) arc

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    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Uriel's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    I will follow main theory and say that for me it makes sense. After all, He did not showed his full power. One would thought that at the given circumstances, it was a given need that He fight with all his might. Yet He did not. And I seriously starting to doubt that He doesn't know his Bankai after all the speech of Zangetsu and everything.
    I think He was saving his power in case Aizen went for the Soul King.
    Last edited by Uriel; April 23, 2011 at 06:13 PM.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    I've always felt that Isshin was likely a 4th Division member before he went on to become a captain of another division (I'm putting my bet on the 10th) kinda like how Izuru was a former 4th Division member before he was transferred to 3rd. Reason why I think that Isshin was a former 4th Division member is the fact that he took on the job as a doctor and running his own clinic. I mean, it just seems suspicious if he suddenly chose being a doctor as his cover-up. He HAD to have had some prior knowledge about medicine. With Unohana as his former captain, I have no doubt that's how he was able to keep up his cover of being a doctor.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member BleachOD's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    I've always felt that Isshin was likely a 4th Division member before he went on to become a captain of another division (I'm putting my bet on the 10th) kinda like how Izuru was a former 4th Division member before he was transferred to 3rd. Reason why I think that Isshin was a former 4th Division member is the fact that he took on the job as a doctor and running his own clinic. I mean, it just seems suspicious if he suddenly chose being a doctor as his cover-up. He HAD to have had some prior knowledge about medicine. With Unohana as his former captain, I have no doubt that's how he was able to keep up his cover of being a doctor.
    I was just about to say that!!! They have specialties....I think he's tied to the fourth division

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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    Something about Isshin doesn't add up. Nobody remembers him or his last name > see Ichigo. If the Kurosaki name was that of a shinigami of that lvl of power as he possesses then surely the older captains would have guessed that this KUROSAKI is his son.
    Yet non of them responds at the matter. However Yamamoto surely does know him, hes so old he must know. Brings me to it that hes hiding something along with Urahara.

    Also if he really wanted to stop the invaders from reaching Rukia he could have intervened much earlier. And even stop Ichigo dead in his tracks. Yet he let it go on till the point of Aizen stepping in. I think if he wanted he could have blown Ichigo away and let Rukia be executed right there. I mean Yamamoto really is that powerful. Also his speed and sense of powers is extreme, see how he already arrived at the spot the 2 captains went to + he noticed the step to get nana away of battle.
    So that leaves 2 options, or maybe 2 co-existing options.
    -He knows something is off with this execution though hes prohibited to enter the court. So hes waiting for the culprit to arrive *Aizen*
    -&/or Hes protecting the Kurosaki identity, which is still not revealed. So what im saying is that Yamamoto is in on it as well. There is no other way.

    Back to Isshin well Ichigo has been shown to have a mysterious power all along, so having it just come from Rukia is out of the question. So it had to be either his mother or father. So its always been in the plan to have Isshin as Shinigami. However im not ruling out that his mother used to be as well.

    http://www.goodmanga.net/bleach/chapter/175/16 Here is my clue to why i think his mother used to be shinigami as well.

    Now why i say this is that it would make sense. And in the same time explain why Ichigo looks like Kaien, if Ichigos mother was Kaiens sister, married to a commoner (be it a captain lvl shinigami but still a commoner) And why Ichigo isnt named a Shiba.

    I go on to far but i think its all planned out

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member tret16's Avatar
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    Re: Was Isshin Supposed to be a Shinigami?

    lol, did anyone bother to think that maybe when Isshin left soul society he simply changed his name to Kurosaki? Anyone? That would explain why no one knew the name Kurosaki from the start.

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