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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I think the bit about berserker not having serious formal training is too big a deal right now. Even with talent, he should have made a point of learning how to fight properly, its not like a few training sessions will bring him instantly a level up. Of course berserker could have grown but I really doubt he would top kenichi or miu. One way or another he would lack the fundamentals that those two do have thanks to the insane training they have gone through all of their life. Now, as far as talent goes I wouldn't think berserker even has an edge over miu. It is true berserker got reasonably far on his own but miu should be pretty much the epitome of fighting genetics perfection so to speak.
About the berserk,i gues he was that strong exactly case he have no "master" to guide him....as i see it..when you use any sort of martial art,the person who used the same art,or familiar with the one you use,could pretty mach see what are you gonna do and know how that style works overall so its easier to counter...in case of berserk he got no style and fight on pure instinct=hes movements completly random and randomnes its one of the most dangerious thing in HSDK's verse(look how Sieg was defeated)....So if Berserk got trained by Yami..yes,i gues he will become much stronger,but less more perfect in sense of "random fightning"(well if ofcourse he will not be trained by some "dirty-street-fight" master)
IMO Berserker with his talent, will learn how to fight properly on his own or take the abilities he's good at to such a high level that it won't make a difference (Maybe he'll do both). Shader has a point, Berserker's unique style is what makes him such a big threat. Under Kensei's specialization training his speed, and strength, will increase phenomenally...but he'll keep his original style. His fighting ability will increase to the extreme's as well. IMO Berserker will learn how to get rid of all his uncessary movements. Look at Kenichi. Kenichi is going through the most extreme training, but it takes forever for him to show the results of his training.
The reason is Kenichi doesn't have a scrap of talent:http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...0/c178/21.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...0/c178/22.html
There is one time we saw Kenichi full potential though against Sho: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...9/c260/14.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...9/c260/16.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...29/c261/2.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...29/c261/4.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...29/c261/6.html
Kenichi was able to match Sho's speed, when all his unnecessary movements disappeared. That apparently increases speed. Kenichi couldn't have been using RS, because he was unconscious.
It's because Kenichi has no talent that he still has unnecessary movements and that the results of his training take so long to appear. Berserker is on the opposite end and has the most talent. The results of his training will appear much quicker than normal. If Berserker went through extreme training for a couple months. I can see hm being stronger than Kenichi and Miu.
---------- Post added August 22, 2011 at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was August 20, 2011 at 06:15 PM ----------
Specialization training should already give incredible growth, since it focuses everything on a few aspects. Berserkers top class talent, should increase that growth much further. Because of his talent, Berserker could go through one level of training to next level in the blink of an eye. With extreme specialization training, Berserker's growth rate should surpass Kenichi's.
Last edited by En Yang Ji; August 20, 2011 at 06:58 PM.
Seeing the girl with the insane speed we learned two things:
1.- Kensei has the means to make people develop their talents very fast and very well.
2.- Areas outside of the ability developed will remain underdeveloped.
This is why the fast girl (I can't remember her name at all) was inferior to miu. She had her speed but lacked basic combat abilities. If berserker goes through the same thing he will develop a specific ability very fast but in turn the other abilities will develop normally. Berserker could develop insane speed or strength thanks to kensei and become a huge threat but his other abilities will remain the same or have grown at a normal rate for disciples. This is where fundamentals kick in, this is where berserker should not be anywhere remotely near kenichi or miu, this is the huge flaw in kensei's training method. In berserker's case in particular, I could see him surpassing kenichi in both speed and strength but even then kenichi will have an advantage in battle techniques, overall fighting style and perhaps even inner strength. Berserker can become insanely strong but if it is with kensei's method it won't come with severe flaws.
You got a point...still Berserker has a good chance of becoming stronger than Kenichi and Miu. He may lack the fundamentals, but he'll make up for that with amount of progress he'll make and with his unorthodox style. IMO his strength will surpass Kenichi and Miu by a good deal and his speed will be of the same caliber as Miu. His fighting style is what would make the biggest difference when fighting Kenichi or Miu. He has no rhythm,when in Berserker Mode, so they can't read it, combine that with phenomenal speed and OHKO strength (like Sho) Berserker becomes someone every disciple class would have problems dealing with.
He may not have the same inner strength that Kenichi and Miu have, but he has Berserker mode. I think Berserker mode will see incredible improvements under Kensei's supervision. The adrenaline makes it so where he can keep fighting until his body gives out. With his reflexes it would be hard for him to be hit.
Last edited by En Yang Ji; August 22, 2011 at 08:51 PM.
The thing is, that without the fundamentals there is not much progress berserker can make beyond physical capacities. Berserker could acquire remarkable physical capacities but if he does not have the moves to back it up then he would be at a terrible disadvantage against someone like kenichi who not only probably has the best fundamentals among disciple class fighters but also has a remarkably large array of techniques behind him.
Berserker mode could work two ways in a fight against kenichi:
1.- It negates ryusui seikuken due to his movements being random and unreadable.
2.- Berserker simply goes wild and his moves become easy to dodge since there is no technique behind them.