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Thread: Lost Shinigami Agent Arc - Purpose and Effect

  1. #16
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner crazy_man's Avatar
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    Well here I was gonna make a post and exacta pretty much summed up my views on this topic and more, much, much more.

    This arc is very refreshing to me, the only complaint I have at the moment was the lack of depth in Ichigo's fullbring abilities.
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    Worst Arc? Are you crazy????
    In this arc, we see a Ichigo crying, crying a lot!!!
    He lost his friends, Urahana and his father were hiding something of him. Oh my god! This arc was fucking good!
    I've never seen Ichigo crying, his dissispear got clean for us and at final... After 8 months... Imagine! 8 months without seeing Ichigo shouts "BAN-KAI!", 8 months without shinigamis, Aizen and other! So.. at final... He comes back. A new Ichigo... A Ichigo that was crying. I love this Arc. Fantastic!

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  5. #18
    Intl Translator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sarmad's Avatar
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Trotter View Post
    I don't think you understand the concept of a plothole very well. No offense is meant by this. A plothole is when something appears in the plot to explain something, yet contradicts everything else. So far you have not presented anything like that. I am presenting my points against you in a number fashioned and in chrological order. IE, every - statement you made is represented by a number in my post in order of me reading them (so from top to bottom).

    1.We don’t know why, but it can easily be explained. Examples of arguments are: They wanted Ichigo to have a normal life. Even Urahara asked Isshin “Are you sure you want to do this? Your son won’t have a future after this.” in refrence to restoring his powers. Also, there probably wasn’t this threat two years ago either.

    2. The argument that it took him two years to come up with it is fail, but Idon’t think that’s the reason at all.

    3. How can he seek the help of Soul Society, especially when, when this arc began, he made it clear (when Keigo brought up Rukia) that the wanted nothing to do with them anymore. That and Ginjou’s manipulations pretty much turned things around for him.

    4. Not sure how this is considered a plot hole but ok.

    5. Ok….

    6. Ok...x2

    7. What did I just read? They didn’t say powerful Shinigami, just someone who is half Shinigami half Hollow. We don’t know why Ichigo could use fullbring, but it’s very likely that his REMAINING REIATSU, which he was said to have, had some of his HOLLOW REIATSU inside of it. In fact, that makes perfect logical sense because he had both Hollow and Shinigami reiatsu left in him. I see no issue here.

    8. Because every Shinigami in the Soul Society goes around making love to humans and then those human-shinigami babies go and get Hollow powers. Yes, because this isn’t a Shounen manga where the main character has unlikely things happen to him. I think are you in the wrong genre.

    9. Read new chatpers, etc, etc. Only hard to care if you don’t understand the concept of the genre itself.

    10. Read new chatpers, etc, etc. Only hard to care if you don’t understand the concept of the genre itself.

    11. His name is Tsukishima. Not sure how this is a plothole either, but ok.

    12. This point encompasses your reasons (both one and two) for them being cut. They weren’t jerks, Ginjou was being terribly cliché, and Ichigo isn’t the hardest person to confuse. The acting wasn’t bad, because Ginjou was still believable and seemed like he had good intentions from the start. Also, this good acting was only a result of him being cut. Your logic here is horrid to read, isn’t contradicted at all, and shows your lack of understanding for the plot devices at play here.

    13. Once again, what did I just read? The whole scene was to introduce Moe and for Orihime to be cut, as well as to established the relationship between Moe and Tsukishima. I think you are, once again, completely missing the point here in some kind of random blind hate for this arc that is completely unfounded. But I digress…

    14. Isshin and Urahara both clearly seem to have realized that Ginjou is now involved with Ichigo. If they were to step in, who knew what Ginjou would do? Whisk Ichigo away and brainwash him (spoileralert: HE ALREADY DID THAT!!!)?

    ...

    Overall I am very disappointed in everyone that liked, thanked and agreed with this post because it has numerous pitfalls in logic and is analyzing things in such a shallow manner that I feel like it was more of a chore to read the post then to reply. I mean no disrespect by this but I stand by what I said. Have a good day.
    In response to your response(numbers refer to your numbers )

    1. We don't know what Urahara actually meant by that line. We just assume he is saying that Ichigo getting his powers back would destroy his future ... which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You could try enlighten me in that regard, if you can.

    2. So what is the reason Urahara kept it secret? My Suspicion is that Kubo will never give us any explanation regarding this move from Urahara... who would think about this in 100 chapters anyway, right? By that time every fan will be like "Argh dont bug me with small glitches from 100 chapters ago!!"

    3. So the main Protagonist went through 5 arcs or more and was reminded over and over again that he cannot fight by himself (his greatest lesson during the main fight with Kenpachi even taught him that) and he wouldn't think about contacting anybody from SS? Do you believe your own reasoning?

    4. 5. 6. i'm not sure to what you were refering here but it doesn't seem all to important.

    7. Ichigo united his Shinigami and Hollow powers and used his last technique which granted him powers beyong Aizens dimension for a short while only to loose them completely. That was the deal.. there were no residue powers left, except for the Fullbringer abilities... so i don't get what you are trying to say. Unless you say we can't trust any "facts" in Bleach...

    8. Only thing i agree with you here. This story is supposed to revolve around Ichigo, so naturally he is conveniently picked. I never minded the concept of Fullbringers.

    9.- 14. I don't really know what you are referring to all the time, since you don't make any quotes but i must add some of my own thoughts to the whole Tsukishima changing Ginjou and changing him back deal.
    Explaining why Tsuki cut Ginjou by saying that he is a bad actor was an obvious mistake by Kubo. This IS a plothole btw. Tsukishima's ability is to insert himself into the memories of a person. That being said, how would Ginjou benefit from that ability? OK, Tsukishima becomes his enemy for a while ... but the idea is to steal Ichigo's powers. His goal (MOTIVATION/REASONING) never changes. So how exactly does this help Ginjou's acting abilities? His motivation for helping/tricking Ichigo does not change, he only adds 1 more person to his list of enemies! So it actually doesn't really make any sense that Ginjou's personality switched. And WaveBossa makes a valid point. I think that rather you are actually having a hard time understanding anything! Im shocked by your lack of thought, while you lecture others about logic and common sense.
    "I don't mean any disrespect", just so you know.

    And i'd like to add that i posted this, since Sky Render becomes too cocky when people support bad storywriting and we can't have that! :P

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    People in Bleach are shady. They have secrets and reasons for being vague. It's how it works. And if everyone was just willing to outright explain the plot and all the secrets and everything in a manga, there would be no suspense or plot twists, and the execution wouldn't be as good. It's called plot-induced stupidity. It's pretty much a necessity for shounen.
    I call BS! Big BS... you are practically saying that Bleach is shit because it is a Shounen Manga and why bother discussing, since that's how Shounen Mangas roll!? This is in no way an argument for your cause. You essentially say that Kubo is too stupid to write a good story.
    Last edited by Sarmad; October 06, 2011 at 11:20 AM.
    -_-

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  7. #19
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    My two cents about this arc:
    Bear in mind that I don't think kubo can write a mindblowing story since SS arc.
    Decent story..if he tries..yes.

    Inconsistency about fullbring powers:
    It has been stated that fullbring powers cannot evolved..
    and yet apparently shown to us that it can evolve. Nor do kubo bother letting us in on how exactly it works. Also, what exactly is ichigo's fullbring? Isn't fullbring drawing powers from inanimate objects ? So why does he have this weird fb design ?
    If your explanation to this is that the entire group of fullbringers is lying to ichigo about how fb works, that won't make sense because..
    "Let's lie to ichigo that fullbring cannot evolve..and powers because.." of what ? There's no point, if you are aiming to get his powers, won't it be better to let him know everything that he can about it so that he can develop into its maximum ?



    Wasted potential:
    If you check the recent chapters, you'll realize how much potential kubo has wasted.
    First, he show us how giriko's powers work and we know how scary it can be and for no reason or what so ever, he made giriko into a giant hollow like creature, I know you can explain that "its part of his power".
    But..
    he's basically just a giant hollow and fodder. The characters also experience a 180 degree change. To be honest, why go through an entire year showing us cool powers of characters only to throw them out of the window ?

    Trust and characters:
    I cannot emphasis on how much an impact characters make on a story.
    Ichigo, the main character is human again. After 400 chapters, everyone would have expected ichigo to grow.
    In shounen manga, understand this:
    friendship and trust are both important elements of the story.

    Ichigo rather trust some stranger he met than his own father. Will you normally entertain a person like ginjou in real life ?
    Remember how everything started, everything started because ichigo sees his father being shady, urahara being shady and just at that moment ginjou question him about "what do you know about your father" .
    Then we remember the moment during Fake Karahura arc, the conversation that ichigo had with isshin when he saw him in shinigami form..as compared to this ichigo that doubts his father.
    Basically..because of his lack of trust in isshin and urahara (because they ..appear..shady) he went to a bunch of strangers, unknown whether they are good or bad and on the basis that ginjou claims that he knows more about isshin than he do..
    to get back his shinigami powers.

    Please remember that the ichigo that went to them did not have his entire friends stabbed by tsukishima yet. He wasn't mentally screwed, yet.
    Now compare this guy to that same guy in chapter 1.
    Apparently, living with his family for his entire life did not get ichigo to open up to them, to ask them about what's going on, to ask karin what's going on..even when they are family and they know ichigo is a shinigami.
    Thing is, you can't deny the plotholes and the things that logically don't make sense in this arc. Kubo was at least trying to make the plot reasonable in FKT.
    Last edited by Zeltrax; October 07, 2011 at 10:39 AM.

  8. #20
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    In my opinion, it certainly is the worst arc by far. It's just so incredibly boring.

  9. #21
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    Fullbring - An Assistance Arc?

    If I have the definition correct, one's Fullbring abilities are instilled or birthed into them by having parents who were attacked by Hollows before they were born. (I don't believe there are other ways at least, that have been introduced to us yet. But you never know, knowing KT.)
    As speculated as early as the introduction arc, Hollow attacks can be widespread and massive, as well as concentrated on individuals. By this logic, the possibility of being born with Fullbring powers is significantly high. We can assume that one's ability to harness the power or even realize it is smaller than the probability of being born with it. Nonetheless, the logic (though unanimously considered flawed through the progression of this arc) would suggest that most people or a good number of people are born with these powers.

    With this theory in mind, I'm beginning to think that this arc is really just the beginning of an entirely new world of Bleach. New levels of Fullbring, new characters and organizations. I cannot imagine that this arc will be as insignificant as the whole "Bount" deal in overall longterm plot development.

    Perhaps this new knowledge will strengthen Orihime and Chad's powers to make them more than minimally supporting characters, and actually holding their own in battles ahead? Perhaps they will find their own group akin to the nature of the Visoreds, (or maybe a re-emergence because I miss them.)

    Either way, thanks for reading my ill-organized, plot-holed theory.

  10. #22
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    Re: Fullbring - An Assistance Arc?

    KK town is kinda a hotbed for activity, pretty sure no where else in the world has to deal with the stuff they deal with (the scale of it). So the highest concentration of fullbringers or potential fullbringers exist there.

    As its concerns the powers, thats essentially how they come about, hollow attacking parents. Traces of hollow power remain, pass from mother to child but I don't think this is a guarantee. That is, every person this happens to becomes a fullbringer. And if that is the case, unless certain circumstances occur the potential will exist but it will be unfulfilled, they won't actually get powers. Kinda like how Ichigo was a potential fullbringer but unless Ginjo and company (certain circumstances) didn't train him more than likely he probably wouldn't have figured it out on his own.

    And yeah this is suppose to be an assistance arc in a way, its suppose to give some background on Isshin, setup Ichigo getting back his abilities and also link to new conflicts, big bads, saving the world etc.

    P.S Bount arc was a filler anime arc and has nothing to do with the manga.

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  12. #23
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    Re: Fullbring - An Assistance Arc?

    Bount was more interesting if you finish it till the end tho.
    I never particularly like fullbring and their powers so I'll be glad if kubo just finish this arc and get done with them.
    To me fb is just like humans with superpowers.

    I don't think its an assistance arc, to me I see it more like a transition arc to begin part 2 of bleach and later on much more serious enemies will appear.

  13. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Fullbring - An Assistance Arc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeltrax View Post
    Bount was more interesting if you finish it till the end tho.
    I never particularly like fullbring and their powers so I'll be glad if kubo just finish this arc and get done with them.
    To me fb is just like humans with superpowers.

    I don't think its an assistance arc, to me I see it more like a transition arc to begin part 2 of bleach and later on much more serious enemies will appear.
    The Bount arc was fucking terrible -__-

    Poor animation, crappy storyline, annoying support characters etc.

    Transition, assistance...semantics, essentially the same time we were driving at (well definitely what I was driving at)

    And yes, thats exactly what fullbringers are...humans with superpowers.

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    Re: Fullbring - An Assistance Arc?

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    The Bount arc was fucking terrible -__-

    Poor animation, crappy storyline, annoying support characters etc.

    Transition, assistance...semantics, essentially the same time we were driving at (well definitely what I was driving at)

    And yes, thats exactly what fullbringers are...humans with superpowers.
    Tbh wasnt the cards guy a lot like Yukio? I mean sitting in your room making inanimated objects do your fighting for you and in the end he got fucked over by his own power, not unlike what could have happend to Yukio if it wasnt for Hitsugaya killing those creatures and then freezing Yukio.

  16. #26
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    Re: Fullbring - An Assistance Arc?

    I can't remember specifics of the Bount arc, so I have no idea who you are talking about and at the moment have no desire whatsoever to check. I remember 1 scene explicitly though, the last fight between Kariya and Ichigo, where Kariya attacks Yourichi with a lightning bolt attack and she effortlessly cancels it out by holding up her palm to it...and I was like "WTF!?!" This dude is suppose to be a threat to SS? Kiss my ass animators...that was an extremely weak filler

    The episodes were so bad I thought I might get cancer -__-
    Last edited by cracker; October 10, 2011 at 03:39 PM.

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    Re: Fullbring - An Assistance Arc?

    I'll have to agree with cracker on this one - the bount arc was pretty uninteresting in my opinion. I knew that it wasn't in the manga, (trust me I checked the 2nd time I read the whole series over waiting for the FB arc to pick up.) which has actually deterred me entirely from watching the newer anime storyline that just ended. I think it takes place after Aizen, but before FB.

    ... And some ridiculousness about Mod-Soul rebellion and Gotei 13 clones or some garbage.

    I digress.

    Anyways, perhaps I'm wrong but it would seem that this arc is nearing an end in the not-so-distant future. I'm wondering how KT will (or if he will) make a smooth transition between such a large plot development in the manga and tie it into the main story. And I can't say I've really learned a whole lot about Isshin's history really, though maybe I just need to go back and read it again.

  18. #28
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    Its already the most popular manga (in Japan) of all time. Although it will never be what DB was.

  19. #29
    MH's Best Artist 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000!
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by The Newbie. View Post
    No, this arc was great until the last few chapters, when it became obvious that editors jumped in because of the ratings. It was obvious that the arc was leading to something important, but now I have no idea where the hell it's heading to. The one problem that bothers me about this arc is that Ginjo can't be trusted, neither inside or outside of the story, this leads to all sorts of asumptions and "inconsistencies" because we never know if what he just said is true, example, Fullbrings coming from the traces a hollow left on a woman before giving birth and many other technical details.

    The whole Ichigo-Isshin mistrust was also leading somewhere, if you pay attention it is obvious it wasn't just accidental. Now there's probably no way to continue from there since the past ~8 chapters have been so different.

    I have decided to travel back a whole year into the past, buy a thousand of each week's JUMP magazine and vote for Bleach so the ratings don't drop, this way the arc will continue as it was intended to. Maybe even go back 9 years and do the same to the Shinigami agent arc, because it also jumped right into the Soul Society arc thanks to low ratings. Keigo, Tatsuki and Mizuiro are such overdeveloped characters for a nonexistent role in the story. Damn whoever keeps voting for One Piece, it already owns 2/5 of the anime and manga industry, literally, a few thousand votes won't drop it's rating, not even slightly.
    Same here.Those recent chapters actually make it terrible as an arc.While the first chapters of this arc had a certain mood and theme,the later chapters totally screwed this up.I won't deny the fact that the Shinigami chapters have been kinda enjoyable,as we saw those old characters again,but they don't fit the arc at all.Furthermore,they destroyed the little originality Kubo tried to bring into the story.However,that's what Shonen JUMP is like.Original stuff is ignored,everything the kids want is mainstream shonen.It really is a pity,as I would've liked to see the original conclusion of this arc as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    Its already the most popular manga (in Japan) of all time. Although it will never be what DB was.
    Is that supposed to be a joke?

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  21. #30
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    Re: The Worst Arc in Bleach

    I was re reading the start of the timeskip and I realize how much I enjoyed it and missed early bleach.
    The unnecessary fb stuff shouldn't have been in there, not to go off topic but the first arc of bleach before ss is my favorite and most memorable one.

    Bleach really do have a lot of potential even for this arc but it went downhill. It's like bleach can never survive without shinigami when the story is suppose to center around ichigo.
    And I'll pretend I never heard that.

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