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Thread: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion

  1. #91
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombadgerlock View Post
    Not quite true. Gon has concerns for Killua's feelings. After all, he understands them. He also respects them- he mentioned more than once that someone who feared risks better was needed, as he himself lacked that.

    An important thing to mention is that in most arcs both Killua and Gon went over the other's head.

    In particular, in the Ant's arc, Killua knocking Gon out is one of the big reason Gon feels so responsible for Kaito's death, and why he went so far. It's also why he didn't accept Killua's help, and flat out told him that Killua just didn't care. Which was true- Killua only cared that Gon survived this well, not that Gon paid back Kaito.
    Gon has respect for all sorts of things. It's a fairly well established trait, but I think in the end the respect never gets in the way of whatever he believes is right. Gin said that Hunters are all selfish, though I suspect he really means 'my family' here. It's not like he doesn't know abandoning his kid is a bad thing, but he still did it because he had his own goals.

    So far as Kite goes, I think there's a serious disconnect between how the two views the situation. Killua clearly opt for the safest approach, and what he did makes sense in light of that, regardless of how he felt toward Kite. In fact, you can say in that situation Kite was already dead and the question is who else could've escaped. Kite could never have escaped because if Gon + Killua tried to hold Pitou off, they'd just get instantly killed and wouldn't even be able to function as a speed bump.

    On the other hand, it's not that Gon doesn't know he and Killua put together would amount to next to nothing against Pitou. He wants to fight simply because that's the kind of person he is. When Gon was captured by the Spiders, he still talked and acted the way he wanted even though clearly anybody there could've killed him for being a stupid kid.

    To be fair, this friendship is also unequal to begin with on the basis of personality. Killua is pretty much someone who will never betray his friend in every sense of the word (not counting the needle influence, which is clearly outside of his control). Killua would never let his friend get into danger if the situation was at all avoidable, and one can assume if cornered, he'll have no problem fighting to the death for the sake of friendship (again not including the needles). He is also willing to go to considerable lengths to accomodate whatever quirks his friend may have, most notably Gon. So from the outset, it is impossible for Killua to let a friend down, but the reverse clearly can happen.

    Way back in the Hunter exam, after the 2 choose 1 scenario, there's a blurb about reality isn't so generous that you can always choose the best choice. Sometimes you got to pick the wrong choice because the other choice was even worse. We sort of take for granted that Gon and Killua are supposed to complement each others and so on, but I wonder if the message here is that not all friendship ends like a fairy tale. Maybe Gon and Killua aren't exactly the most compatible individuals out there.

    Although Gon and Killua are always together, it is pretty clear that Gon has no shortage of friends if he wants to seek out new ones. Killua might be his best friend, but amongst his friends, even his best friend isn't necessarily anyone special. Certainly he is not more important compared to Kite. On the other hand, to Killua, Gon is definitely the one special friend. I think this is where they have a conflict in ideology. Killua might be Gon's best friend but to Gon, this doesn't mean the world revolves around Killua. In Killua's case, his world definitely revolves around Gon's.

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  3. #92
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Although Gon and Killua are always together, it is pretty clear that Gon has no shortage of friends if he wants to seek out new ones. Killua might be his best friend, but amongst his friends, even his best friend isn't necessarily anyone special. Certainly he is not more important compared to Kite. On the other hand, to Killua, Gon is definitely the one special friend. I think this is where they have a conflict in ideology. Killua might be Gon's best friend but to Gon, this doesn't mean the world revolves around Killua. In Killua's case, his world definitely revolves around Gon's.

    Very true, which is why i pointed out that Killua finally making a friend of his own was Important.

    Now, a couple of thing. Gon perfectly knew that he would die with Kaito, and probably wouldn't be able to do anything- But Gon would always prefer dying with a friend than running away when a friend is dying.

    Killua Forced the choice on Gon. And that was ok for Gon. He knew that Killua tends to make those kind of choices, and he trust those too. It wasn't the first time that Killua chose for Gon, and it wouldn't be the last.

    Later on, Killua forces Gon to run away from Palm. Then he forces gon to not hit Morau. Then he forces Gon to not attack Pitou. All those are things that goes against part of Gon's belief- but he respects Killua's mind, and he is aware that he needs someone like that.

    This is why i believe that while 'Gon nagging Killua means Killua agrees' doesn't mean that Killua doesn't have his own ways of getting his decisions done.

    And, yes. This is a very important time for Killua, for him to realize himself apart from Gon.

  4. #93
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jack Van Burace's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    I think despite Killua being a trained assassin and perfectly capable of killing a person in cold blood if the need arises, he never once did it like that and has always used his cold and rational mind to avoid that possibility. Although he is a killer raised in the Zoldieck family, he isn't like his relatives at all, and just like Gon, he wouldn't do something just out of money.

    Now Gon is someone who could do anything, and he just killed a person. That's SO different than trampling on a weaker person or killing for sport. Of course Gon wouldn't feel remorse for anything he ever chose to do, that's because he accepts the consequences of his actions entirely. He gives in to what he needs to do, even if it is killing or dieing. But he wouldn't do any without a good reason, he's not a shallow person.

    So Gon and Killua is completely different than Hisoka and Gon. Hisoka can kill a person out of lust for blood, while Killua only actually did it when Ilumi was manipulating him (and therefore wasn't really himself doing it). They both (Gon and Killua) act based on what they trully think is important, never out of vanity or any other addiction. Their choices, although often extreme, are always very solid.

  5. #94
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ero-Sanji's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombadgerlock View Post
    He meant Gon's plan vs Killua's plan to beat Gensuru. Killua's plan was a good solid plan for a unique situation using unique methods, and Gon's was one using basic methods and almost worked.

    Gon never uses Killua in any way, much less as a stepping stone, and Kilua is not there just to 'clean up'. They share a lot.

    There is two things unique in this arc when it comes to this though: First, Killua, for the first time ever, made another friend. Second, Killua was looking from 'outside' Gon's sacrifice. He couldn't empathize with Gon's pain at Kaito's death/pupetted, though he very clearly was in pain seeing Gon like that.

    This is basically the old story about seeing a friend self-destruct because something horrible happened and *you* are able to see what's going on in a detached manner.

    Gon actually was very much aware of what was going on, too- he just believed the sacrifice was worth it.

    Basically, what Killua wants Gon to apologize for is *not letting Killua in*. Of course, Killua himself was afraid to ask Gon to be let in, and he also couldn't really feel the same way. But he wanted to share that moment.
    Of course he doesn't as an observant as you and I, but put yourself in Killua's shoes for a moment and you'll notice how absent Gon can be. The part about Killua making a new friend is also not accurate since he has trust in Leorio and Kurapika as friends then there's also Biscuit.

    Killua said that the pain Gon felt about Kaito is none his business but that it doesn't have to mean that Killua doesn't have to be a part of it as a whole. I also found it pretty clear that Killua meant all their adventures and I have linked to some other occasions where Gon has rushed things, ending with Killua having to deal with it.

    @Phantron

    Ofcourse Gon isn't trying to use Killua but that's obviously what Killua feels. It's like the time they played against Reiza, Gon without thinking of certain consequences ordered Killua to hold the ball as he punched it, without even noticing that Killua might have taken damage or at least will do. Even after finding out that Killua was injured he kept on going and this is where Killua feels as a stepping stone.

    You mentioned that the "relationship" is not equal and I agree, it's barely healthy as well. Killua can't say no to Gon and Gon is too naive to realize that. An example is the link I showed, Gon needs to be reminded of his surroundings to understand that he has done wrong, Killu could have easily been killed with those injured hands.

    http://www.mangareader.net/207-14179...apter-170.html

    I think this explains perfectly how Gon is "bad" for Killua and this obviously needs to change.

    About the best friend thing, that's exactly what I meant, Killua has never had a friend before and not a best friend like Gon, Gon is his key to the door of childhood. However, Killua is special to Gon as well. The perfect example is with Reiza again, only Killua can bring forth the best in Gon.
    Last edited by Ero-Sanji; September 21, 2011 at 02:14 AM.
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  6. #95
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    In the battle against Razor, Gon made is pretty clear it's only because Killua is his friend that he feels it's okay to use his hands like that. If anyone else offered to do it, he'd have to hold back because he'd feel guilty.

    Killua said that there is no reason to say 'thanks' amongst friends. Gon believes in this even more than Killua does. If you look at it from Gon's point of view, if Killua needs an arm from him he'd probably ask "Which one?" so he also expects an arm from Killua anytime he needs one. The problem is that Killua, by his nature, will almost never ask anything from Gon, and certainly he's never going to ask for anything that'd put Gon at risk unless there was no other possible alternative.

    Note that this works both ways for Gon. What has Kurapika ever done for him that warrants Gon risking his life fighting guys who are clearly way stronger than him? Absolutely nothing. To Gon friendship itself justifies anything. He doesn't need a good reason to hand his life to his friends, and he doesn't need a good reason either to ask you to put your life on the line.

    Gon and Killua both strikes me as the type who doesn't mind sharing happiness with friends but would rather shoulder any misfortune alone, without getting their friends involved. Normally that'd be an admirable trait to have, but the problem is that Gon's will is absolute so that means only Gon shoulders the sorrow, and frankly that's downright insulting to Killua. When they were captured and watched by Nobunaga, Killua tried to sacrifice himself so Gon can escape, and Gon basically say only he can do something like that, and absolutely refuses to let Killua do it. It seems like a funny argument at that time, but it's a fundamental theme to the rift between the two characters.

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  8. #96
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ero-Sanji View Post
    Of course he doesn't as an observant as you and I, but put yourself in Killua's shoes for a moment and you'll notice how absent Gon can be. The part about Killua making a new friend is also not accurate since he has trust in Leorio and Kurapika as friends then there's also Biscuit.
    I am talking about the Octopus. The Octopus is *Only* Killua's friend. This is the first time that Killua made a friend by himself, and a friend that has nothing to do with Gon.


    Quote Quote:
    Killua said that the pain Gon felt about Kaito is none his business but that it doesn't have to mean that Killua doesn't have to be a part of it as a whole. I also found it pretty clear that Killua meant all their adventures and I have linked to some other occasions where Gon has rushed things, ending with Killua having to deal with it.
    Gon says that Killua doesn't feel anything for Kaito, and that's true.

    Can you really see the same scene happening with Kaito but Gon in his place? Killua would have died with Gon (sans-needle) even if they had 0% chance of surviving. Killua forced Gon to abandon a friend, and this isn't the first time Killua force his mind on Gon either.

    Gon doesn't mind Killua forcing his mind on him- this is what friends are for after all- but he has deep survivor guilt about Kaito. From the moment he first met Pitou, Gon decided that if he couldn't save him he would die with him/for him. Chapter 307 is Gon at least assuaging his guilt.

    What Killua feels is completely normal, but it is as Selfish as what Gon does.


    Quote Quote:
    I think this explains perfectly how Gon is "bad" for Killua and this obviously needs to change.
    Your examples are things i disagree with, remember? I strongly believe that both Killua and Gon ask LOTS of each others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    In the battle against Razor, Gon made is pretty clear it's only because Killua is his friend that he feels it's okay to use his hands like that. If anyone else offered to do it, he'd have to hold back because he'd feel guilty.

    Killua said that there is no reason to say 'thanks' amongst friends. Gon believes in this even more than Killua does. If you look at it from Gon's point of view, if Killua needs an arm from him he'd probably ask "Which one?" so he also expects an arm from Killua anytime he needs one. The problem is that Killua, by his nature, will almost never ask anything from Gon, and certainly he's never going to ask for anything that'd put Gon at risk unless there was no other possible alternative.

    Note that this works both ways for Gon. What has Kurapika ever done for him that warrants Gon risking his life fighting guys who are clearly way stronger than him? Absolutely nothing. To Gon friendship itself justifies anything. He doesn't need a good reason to hand his life to his friends, and he doesn't need a good reason either to ask you to put your life on the line.
    Exactly.

    Quote Quote:
    Gon and Killua both strikes me as the type who doesn't mind sharing happiness with friends but would rather shoulder any misfortune alone, without getting their friends involved. Normally that'd be an admirable trait to have, but the problem is that Gon's will is absolute so that means only Gon shoulders the sorrow, and frankly that's downright insulting to Killua. When they were captured and watched by Nobunaga, Killua tried to sacrifice himself so Gon can escape, and Gon basically say only he can do something like that, and absolutely refuses to let Killua do it. It seems like a funny argument at that time, but it's a fundamental theme to the rift between the two characters.
    Exactly- What Killua wants to make Gon apologize for is his tendency to should the burdens alone.

  9. #97
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner warriorx's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    There are so many things that i expect to happen mainly since they brought back kaito out of nowhere.
    One possibility is that now they might make a trio with Gon Killua and Kaito. Kaito appears to age faster than them since he was only a tiny baby last time we saw him so, having him in the team doesn't seem too far off.

    What has me thinking is the mentality that Gon will have in the future, so far i can't remember if he ever killed anyone with the ferocity that he killed pitou with or anyone at all (its been a while )

    Like people said previously having kaito comeback after what Gon went throught is going to mess him up mentally since he killed someone purely out of hate. Completely against his persona so far.

    I wonder point of changing Gon's personality

  10. #98
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ero-Sanji's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombadgerlock View Post
    Gon says that Killua doesn't feel anything for Kaito, and that's true.

    Can you really see the same scene happening with Kaito but Gon in his place? Killua would have died with Gon (sans-needle) even if they had 0% chance of surviving. Killua forced Gon to abandon a friend, and this isn't the first time Killua force his mind on Gon either.

    Gon doesn't mind Killua forcing his mind on him- this is what friends are for after all- but he has deep survivor guilt about Kaito. From the moment he first met Pitou, Gon decided that if he couldn't save him he would die with him/for him. Chapter 307 is Gon at least assuaging his guilt.

    What Killua feels is completely normal, but it is as Selfish as what Gon does.
    Killua forced Gon to leave because Gon failed to realize that he was in the way, remember? It went so bad that Killua was forced to knock him out. This is once again an occasion were Killua has been forced to "clean-up" just because Gon has a habit of sticking to his instincts.

    http://www.mangareader.net/207-14207...apter-198.html

    Gon was so depressed because he new that it was his fault that Kaito died. As Killua said, that feeling is his alone, Kaito and Killua had just met there's no reason for Killua to feel something for him but that doesn't mean that he doesn't feel left out when it comes to Gon.

    Killua's feelings are selfish, indeed, some might even argue that he idolizes or that he's in love with Gon. Just look at the scene were Killua stalks Gon on his date with Palm.
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  11. #99
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ero-Sanji View Post
    Killua forced Gon to leave because Gon failed to realize that he was in the way, remember? It went so bad that Killua was forced to knock him out. This is once again an occasion were Killua has been forced to "clean-up" just because Gon has a habit of sticking to his instincts.

    http://www.mangareader.net/207-14207...apter-198.html

    Gon was so depressed because he new that it was his fault that Kaito died. As Killua said, that feeling is his alone, Kaito and Killua had just met there's no reason for Killua to feel something for him but that doesn't mean that he doesn't feel left out when it comes to Gon.

    Killua's feelings are selfish, indeed, some might even argue that he idolizes or that he's in love with Gon. Just look at the scene were Killua stalks Gon on his date with Palm.
    This is not Killua "cleaning up" after Gon.

    This is Killua choosing to step on Gon's desire not to abadon a friend because Gon > Kaito for him.

    He made a sound tactical decision and all that, but not only is this responsible for Gon wanting to die now, but if Gon had been the one in Kaito's place, Killua would have been the one in Gon's.

    The problem here is that when you have Gon making a decsion for the group you think Gon is stepping on Killua's choice, but when you have Killua making a decision you think he is cleaning up his messes.

    This isn't the case- Gon didn't hate Killua for forcing him to do something he loathed himself for, nor do Killua hate Gon for forcing him to not kill people nor to use meleoron and so on.

  12. #100
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Uriel's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Although Gon and Killua are always together, it is pretty clear that Gon has no shortage of friends if he wants to seek out new ones. Killua might be his best friend, but amongst his friends, even his best friend isn't necessarily anyone special. Certainly he is not more important compared to Kite. On the other hand, to Killua, Gon is definitely the one special friend. I think this is where they have a conflict in ideology. Killua might be Gon's best friend but to Gon, this doesn't mean the world revolves around Killua. In Killua's case, his world definitely revolves around Gon's.
    He is, as anyone of his friends. Thing is that Kaito have been killed and Killua have not. The amount of rage if it would be Killua would be bigger, if you ask me.

    Palm said it very clear and I think it's the most clear one: They're both the light for each one darkness. The only ones.
    The Sky is pouring
    The wind is blowing
    The sea looks red,
    a surging sea of flames
    looks like the entrance to hell
    'Perfect', the captain said.

  13. #101
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    I don't think one should try to second guess whatever Gon is thinking like a normal person, because he's been described as anything but normal in the world of HXH.

    In the Kite versus Pitou encounter, I really don't think Gon is so stupid or inexperienced that he cannot tell fighting means they're doomed against Pitou. Killua is clearly aware of this, and he blames himself for leaving Kite behind, and it's implied he thinks he is responsible for Kite's death (why would anyone expect Kite to survive alone against someone who rip an arm off in one hit?) I don't even think he was planning to fight to the death with Kite. I think he's simply not thinking about anything when he's overcome with rage like that. He knew if Pitou died (from his point of view) there's no way to bring back Kite, but it didn't stop him from trying to kill him when they met again. After Killua and Gon escaped, Gon, accordingly to him, thought that Kite must have defeated Pitou with one arm and hide himself in a cave or something while waiting to be rescued deep in eney territory. If he's not lying to himself, then his judgment on fighting has to be grossly out of touch with reality. Either way, it makes it impossible to guess what Gon might actually be thinking.

  14. #102
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ero-Sanji's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter 316 Discussion / 317 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombadgerlock View Post
    This is not Killua "cleaning up" after Gon.

    This is Killua choosing to step on Gon's desire not to abadon a friend because Gon > Kaito for him.

    He made a sound tactical decision and all that, but not only is this responsible for Gon wanting to die now, but if Gon had been the one in Kaito's place, Killua would have been the one in Gon's.

    The problem here is that when you have Gon making a decsion for the group you think Gon is stepping on Killua's choice, but when you have Killua making a decision you think he is cleaning up his messes.

    This isn't the case- Gon didn't hate Killua for forcing him to do something he loathed himself for, nor do Killua hate Gon for forcing him to not kill people nor to use meleoron and so on.
    Okey, now you're really of the road, sir.

    Do you seriously think that the reason Killua knocked Gon out was out of jealousy?
    That Gon had stronger feelings for Katio than Killua? Please...
    Did you even read that chapter...?

    Killua knocked Gon out as the best solution to save them all, once again "cleaning up". Kaito even thought of it as a good solution.

    Out of the two Killua was the one who chose the best path to save Kaito. Gon was in the way against an enemy he had no chance against and Kaito might have been alive(in his true form) today if the kids hadn't been with him at that moment. This was all clearly explained...

    Gon's choices aren't necessarily bad, no, but when they are as the might be, Killua is almost always the one who saves the situation. Now, does that mean that every plan that Killua has ever made has been successful, hell no! Just look at the time they stalked those spiders, they got caught. However, Gon doesn't regard Kaito as higher than Killua, they are both special to him but at the moment Kaito's revenge was more important since Gon thought that he "left" him.
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