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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
That doesn't mean he invincible however. We *know* that Yupi was almost beaten by a combination of technique. This is the same kind of thing. Netero could be beaten by good planning.
Because it's not impossible. There are countless moves in HxH when it comes to Hatsu, and Good planing with the right partners count for a lot. This is why Zeno talked more about Netero's freaky personality than his move- because it's Netero's personality that makes planning even more difficult.Quote:
Their reactions were that he was joking. Also, it is pretty obvious they didn't understand Netero's true ability (Nen users don't show each others theur real ability. E.G, Zeno had no clue about Zero), but it's also because *Teamwork is important*. Again. And planning.Quote:
Yes, and this wasn't my point. My point was that he could hurt him at all.Quote:
Again, Pufu didn't really reform his clones. He reformed His clones minus the destroyed part and the nen used to reform them.Quote:
I also did Say Netero shouldn't have any real way to kill Pufu in a 3vs 1 fight. He would be enough to make sure he can't do anything though.
Well, I think that it depends on the emotional status of the Royals. Since they're all in the same level, it's safe to assume that any of them has the chance to win.
And by that I mean that we don't have seen Netero using a different strategy than just using his attacks directly without using any other "trick". I'm sure his experience will make him use a different tactic if He has to, since I'm quite sure He had thought on this before on previous battles (Zeno comment about him made me think so, and I'm sure He's not the top Nen user currently)
Pufu has no chance since its powers depends on the enemy mental weakness, which Netero can perfectly handle in battle. Pitou may have a high chance, but his knockback was in mid-air so I wouldn't guarantee that on the grounds there is no damage taken.
Yupi...Well, I think He's the most unpredictable but his lack of experience may cost his life. If Netero figures out a way to stop him with his technique I think He will last long, but not win.
With this I'm saying that they have the upper hand having strong bodies and auras...But I wouldn't say that experience is something to trash out into consideration in this fight.
Netero's power graph (using Biscuit's drawings), would almost certainly be a very narrow one. He is clearly someone who can be at his 100% just about all the time. On the other hand someone like Pufu must have a huge range on the same graph. Pufu can probably be defeated by just about anyone if he heard that Meryem was having sex with Komugi. In fact, the news of such a thing may very well kill him outright. For a more practical example, imagine Netero saying something like: "Hohoho little ants, your King is already dead!" It is likely Pitou and Pufu would both be shaken up by the news and this would clearly give Netero a huge opening to unleash his power.
If you look at the stopwatch, there's about a whole 4 seconds between Pufu arriving at the throne room and sobbing uncontrollably over how he failed as a Royal Guard. Four seconds is an eternity in HXH. If Morel killed him during that time instead of just trapping him, nobody should be surprised at the outcome because Pufu was basically completely defenseless for 4 seconds.
Incidentally, the official power hexagon indeed ranks Pitou and Pufu as weak emotionally (4/3 mind score) and Pitou and Pufu as weak intelligently (4/3 knowledge score).
Last edited by Phantron; September 13, 2011 at 10:12 PM.
I can't say I did not laughed with Pufu's awesome technique to defeat him xD
And that hexagon is quite accurate, I believe. It's for other characters as well? What is says about Killua? I want to know if He has chances out 1 million to defeat Yupi :O
Side note: Pufu ability is not to reset the ability...it's to discover it by reading the emotions. It looks similar because of Zitoh, but in his case it was because his ability was meant to not being able to use it when failed. I'm sure that when you put such a condition, that means you can do something else with all your aura just being around. But I'm not certain of this, it's only a thought.
Palm also benefitted from this. We are never shown how Pufu does this, but after Palm's rebirth she said she was using her ability wrong in the past, and she went from someone Killua can defeat in his sleep, to someone he has to fight seriously. Morel also noted that if they didn't attack so early, they wouldn't have a chance because presumably Pufu would've eventually be able to turn even idiots like Cheetu into an aura powerhouse.
I guess you can say that since the Hunters attacked early, the Royals didn't have time to use Pufu's ability (it clearly takes a nontrivial time for him to do this), but honestly a lot of time has passed since Pufu first appeared to the showdown. If the Royals had any interest in optimizing ability for 1 on 1 fighting they must have the time to do it. I think this is because to the Royals, it is far more important that an ability is beneficial to Meryem as opposed to themselves.
In the order of Mind/Skill/Stamina/Aura/Ingenuity/Knowledge:
Gon: 4 3 4 4 5 3
Killua: 4 4 4 4 3 4
That means the power heaxgon consider Yupi as more knowledgeable than Gon...
Not at all. IT just takes time to learn ability, and it also invest belief in it. You can learn as many abilities as you want. But the belief that 'this is YOUR SPECIAL ABILITY' greatly increases its effectiveness.Quote:
That is your interpetation, nothing more.Quote:
Yes, and this has nothing to do with resetting. Palm kept her old ability. It's just that she also learnt to stop holding back.Quote:
５ ５ ５ ５ ５ ５ ３０ Netero
４ ５ ５ ５ ５ ４ ２８ Pitou
３ ５ ５ ５ ５ ５ ２８ Pouf
５ ５ ５ ５ ３ ４ ２７ Youpi
５ ４ ５ ４ ４ ４ ２６ Biscuit
５ ４ ４ ４ ４ ４ ２５ Kuroro
３ ４ ４ ４ ５ ４ ２４ Hisoka
４ ４ ４ ４ ４ ４ ２４ Razor
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２３ Morel
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２３ Kite
３ ４ ４ ４ ４ ４ ２３ Genthru
４ ３ ４ ４ ５ ３ ２３ Gon
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２３ Killua
４ ４ ４ ４ ２ ４ ２２ Wing
３ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２２ Shoot
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ３ ２２ Knuckle
２ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２１ Knov
３ ３ ３ ４ ５ ３ ２１ Palm
３ ３ ３ ４ ３ ４ ２０ Welfin
３ ３ ３ ３ ３ ４ １９ Tsezguerra
３ ３ ３ ４ ２ ４ １９ Kurapika
４ ３ ３ ３ ３ ３ １９ Leol
３ ３ ３ ４ ２ ３ １８ Zazan
４ ２ ２ ３ ３ ４ １８ Meleoron
２ ３ ３ ４ ３ ２ １７ Cheetu
３ ３ ３ ３ ２ ３ １７ Koltopi
４ ２ ３ ２ ３ ３ １７ Ikalgo
２ ３ ３ ３ ２ １ １４ Rammot
３ ２ ２ １ １ ３ １２ Leorio
２ ２ ３ ０ ２ ３ １２ Ant Queen
４ １ １ ０ ４ ２ １２ Komugi
３ １ １ １ １ ３ １０ Zepairu
２ １ １ １ １ １ ７ Zushi
２ ２ ２ ０ ３ １ １０ Gon（Hunter Exam）
３ ２ ３ １ ３ ２ １４ Gon（Celestial Tower）
３ ３ ３ ２ ３ ２ １６ Gon（York Shin）
３ ３ ３ ３ ３ ２ １７ Gon（Greed Island）
３ ３ ４ ３ ３ ２ １８ Gon（Chimera Ant I）
４ ３ ４ ４ ４ ３ ２２ Gon（Chimera Ant II）
４ ３ ４ ４ ５ ３ ２３ Gon（Chimera Ant III）
１ ３ ２ ０ ２ ２ １０ Killua（Hunter Exam）
２ ３ ３ １ ２ ２ １３ Killua（Celestial Tower）
２ ３ ３ ２ ２ ２ １４ Killua（York Shin）
２ ３ ３ ３ ２ ３ １６ Killua（Greed Island）
３ ４ ４ ３ ３ ３ ２０ Killua（Chimera Ant I）
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ３ ２２ Killua（Chimera Ant II）
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２３ Killua（Chimera Ant III）
３ ２ ２ ０ ２ ３ １２ Kurapica（Hunter Exam）
３ ３ ３ ４ ２ ４ １９ Kurapica（York Shin）
２ １ ２ ０ ２ ３ １０ Leorio（Hunter Exam）
３ ２ ２ １ １ ３ １２ Leorio（York Shin）
３ ４ ４ ３ ５ ４ ２３ Hisoka（Hunter Exam）
３ ４ ４ ４ ５ ４ ２４ Hisoka（York Shin）
３ ４ ４ ３ ２ ４ ２０ Kaito（Hunter Exam）
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２３ Kaito（Chimera Ant I）
５ ５ ５ ５ ４ ５ ２９ Netero（Chimera Ant I）
５ ５ ５ ５ ５ ５ ３０ Netero （Chimera Ant III）
３ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２２ Novu（Chimera Ant I）
２ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２１ Novu（Chimera Ant II）
３ ４ ４ ４ ３ ３ ２１ Knuckle（Chimera Ant I）
４ ４ ４ ４ ３ ３ ２２ Knuckle（Chimera Ant II）
１ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２０ Shoot（Chimera Ant I）
３ ４ ４ ４ ３ ４ ２２ Shoot（Chimera Ant II）
１ ２ １ ３ ３ ３ １３ Palm（Chimera Ant I）
３ ３ ３ ４ ５ ３ ２１ Palm（Chimera Ant III）
４ ５ ５ ５ ４ ３ ２６ Yupi（Chimera Ant II）
５ ５ ５ ５ ３ ４ ２７ Yupi（Chimera Ant III）
３ ３ ３ ３ ３ ３ １８ Leol（Chimera Ant I）
４ ３ ３ ３ ３ ３ １９ Leol（Chimera Ant II）
２ ３ ３ ３ ３ １ １５ Zitoh（Chimera Ant I）
２ ３ ３ ４ ３ ２ １７ Zitoh（Chimera Ant II）
３ １ １ ３ ３ ３ １４ Meleoron（Chimera Ant I）
４ ２ １ ３ ３ ３ １６ Meleoron（Chimera Ant II）
４ ２ ２ ３ ３ ４ １８ Meleoron（Chimera Ant III）
４ ２ ２ ３ ２ ３ １６ Ikarugo（Chimera Ant II）
４ ２ ３ ２ ３ ３ １７ Ikarugo（Chimera Ant III）
Cheetu picked an ability that he can never use again if he failed certain criteria, and you think you're supposed to just get around that problem by learning something new? Is Cheetu some kind of super genius who stumbled on a cool trick nobody in the world of HXH has thought of before? Just make all your moves 'can never use again if...' and if it fails, just learn something else to replace it? Everything in HXH suggests that if you learn the wrong thing you're stuck with it.
Refer to this conversation Hisoka had with Kastro way back:
If it was possible to just 'forget' what you already learned, it'd be impossible to ran out of memory, so to speak. Cheetu essentially learned 3 useless abilities, and then learned a new ability within a week. Unless he is supposed to be a person with a memory that is way above any character we've seen (most characters only have 1-2 refined abilities), he should be, as Hisoka would say, out of memory.
At any rate if you really believe Pufu's teaching ability is so great that it easily surpasses any kind of learning exhibited so far (at least on the human side) in HXH, the same conclusion still holds: it'd be impossible for the Royals to not have optimized their aura ability by now if they were at all interested in being good at fighting 1 on 1.
Zitoh's main ability has always been Speed, then he learned a second ability which got unusable, then he learned a third ability. He always kept his speed though.Quote:
The 'out of memory' thing is about doing something you aren't suited for. It goes against the very principle of Pufu's technique- Pufu seems to not 'teach' a technique as such, but find what the person is *currently* most suited for.
So, basically, the 'Out of memory' thing still wroks, as the person couldn't 'become' suited for techniques his mind aren't ready for.
It was always pretty explicit the only Royal Guard who ever tried to learn any fighting technique was Pitoh.Quote:
EDIT: Also, keep in mind Zitoh's nen was still considered in his development's stage after he got his first ability from pufu. It's highly possible that Pufu isn't able to make them learn an abiltiy beyond the scope of their current maturity, and that someone needs deep maturity in order to be able to use more than one ability well.
Last edited by Tombadgerlock; September 14, 2011 at 10:50 PM.
I'm sorry if this is a tad off topic but in terms of Netero's defeat, does anyone else feel like they wanted Netero to be eliminated by the ants. I was reading back on the arc and the way they talk about the political side of the hunter's society as well as the way the chairman aka Netero would take the fall for the incompetence of others it almost feels as if they wanted him out of the picture for some reason.
If you consider his good nature I think it isn't to unreasonable to think that since he's live to 110 and even at that age had such an amazing fighting ability one would think he could live for another hundred years. It just feels like with the way some have talked about Netero it was like they feared his potential and wanted him out of the picture to take control of his position. While of course it is just speculation it's just something that's bothered me as I read the chapter cause if you do consider the situation why would they want their strongest fighter using the rose if the rose is a weapon with the same amount of power regardless of who uses it, why not send ina decoy to set it off rather then sacrificing one of the strongest hunters alive.
In terms of his strength against the other royal guards, with his fighting style I"m sure he could've swept the floor with them. When he first read Pitou's aura it was based on his current conditioning meanwhile during the attack I would say he may have tripled or quadrupled his power through the meditation and training he went through before the invasion.
Against the King though it does make one wonder how he would've made out had the King not gained a side of humanity and was a brute killer. I would imagine Netero would've actually gone down quicker and more ruthless but then it would have justified the use of the Rose since in that scenario he had already prepared to die. Now that I think about it, the main fact that Netero had the Rose in him meant he already knew he was going to lose and if I recall isn't that the worst thing you can do in a fight when you consider the fact that you'll lose. It's as if he knew he had no hope of winning and was only fighting to see how well he could do even though the whole fight was pointless.
I ponder if perhaps Netero would've fought harder if the Rose wasn't in him because the fact he had it in him meant he was always under the assumption that he had a backup plan and he didn't have to win. He didn't even attempt to finish the fight he killed himself when the king came close enough to set off the bomb which would mean he never even planned on winning just to get the King close enough to fire it off.
I guess in Netero's mind he wanted to have at least one more fight before calling it quits since he could have just grappled the King and set off the bomb at point blank range but instead opted to see how he could do against him. Even though we'll most likely hear about Gon's condition next and his recovery attempts I do ponder how the new chairman will effect the Hunter's organization since the carefree Netero is now out of the picture, it does leave room for a more ruthless/greedy person to take the position and control it as they seem fit.
Zito's speed was never his ability. Zito's speed was always a natural ability he had due to being based on a cheetah. The speed was at no point nen related.
There's clearly an opposing faction within the Hunter's Association that wants Netero out. It'd seem like this faction didn't take the Ants as seriously and rather viewed it as an opportunity to make Netero look bad. I doubt they were trying to kill him, since Netero is still clearly the strongest Hunter around and he is clearly aware of their existence. I doubt this faction knew about the Rose, since if they're looking for a scandal to bring Netero down, the fact that he possessed a Rose would be more than enough to ruin his reputation forever.
HXH human beings do not seem to live significantly longer compared to real life counterparts. Netero is always described as ridiculously old (110+ at least), and if this was a common occurence people wouldn't make a big deal out of it. He clearly declined in his ability as he grew old, so he is not immune to the effect of aging. Maybe he can live another 20 years but I sure don't see another 100 years, though it's pretty clear the rival faction in Hunter's Association isn't going to just wait until Netero dies from old age either.
Netero's 'Zero' attack pretty much drained his life force. What could he possibly do that's more powerful than that? It sure looks like using that attack pretty much ensures his death, so how could he possibly have a better plan and not use it over an attack pretty much kills him regardless of outcome. Even if you don't think Netero was going to die after using the Zero, it's clear he is not in any shape to continue fighting after it, so that must be his most powerful attack.
^Yet he had that speed long before he ever learned nen. His speed was innate, his abilities were his tag thing, his crosbow and the ability we never got to see due to killlua's dad.
Of course we did.
murao stated he was using only natural abilities
here we see him wondering what the hell nen is, after using his speed
Later on we see zitou talking to leol about getting him an actual nen ability but I don't remember when that happened and the chapter titles being just numbers does not help at all.