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View Poll Results: Against who/what do you think will be the final confrontation?

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36. You may not vote on this poll
  • Priscilla

    17 47.22%
  • Destroyer

    1 2.78%
  • Teresa

    6 16.67%
  • Raki

    1 2.78%
  • Clare

    1 2.78%
  • Male Claymores

    0 0%
  • Rubel

    4 11.11%
  • Rimuto

    0 0%
  • Dae himself

    1 2.78%
  • An "Uber Creation" of Dae's

    0 0%
  • Organization

    1 2.78%
  • Dragons

    1 2.78%
  • Continent

    2 5.56%
  • Hysteria, Cassandra, and/or Roxanne

    0 0%
  • Miria, Deneve, and/or Helen

    0 0%
  • God of Rabona

    0 0%
  • Goddess Teresa and/or Goddess Clare

    0 0%
  • Other

    1 2.78%
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Thread: Clare's Final Opponent

  1. #1
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kyodai Senkan Mora's Avatar
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    Clare's Final Opponent

    After reading the last few chapters I have come to a sudden realization.Most of us expect that Clare vs Priscilla would be the final fight of claymore but now that we know Dae has the DNA of past number ones and that he can revive them, am beginning to think at some point it will definitely be Clare vs Teresa(revived) or maybe even Teresa vs Priscilla.Am damn sure Dae will revive Teresa as her name was mentioned among the eight strongest of all times.Let me hear everyone's thoughts on this
    "Unless I grip the sword, I can not protect you. While gripping the sword I can not embrace you." -Tite Kubo


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  3. #2
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Alisia's Avatar
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    I' think that the return of Teresa on the scene have no sense. Thi fact, can destroy the principal line of the story. At this time, Org's dont' have possibility to continue in his plane. Dae used priscilla's arm for the 3 old number one, so the "arm" cant be used anymore. Another question is that Teresa's body have lost a head that was used to change human claire in a claymore, it's impossible for dae or another mib to revive the incomplete body of teresa.

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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    I've always thought Teresa was going to be Clare's last opponent - whether in a mental battle or in a physical one.

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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    I think in the end Teresa will get all her powers back at the same time Clare will lose all her Claymore abilities and turn back to a normal human. All the yoma, claymores, and everyone in the organization will be wiped out and only normal humans are left on the island again. Only Raki and human Clare will be left. I don't know how it's going to get there but that's what I think it'll happen in the end... In my mind at least.

    or....

    The final battle could be so epic that the entire island gets destroyed!

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  9. #5
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    I'm curious why some of you believe Teresa will face Clare in the closing chapters of the Manga? I initially thought the Organization would bring her back as one of the "former three Number One warriors." However, it appears that even Dae cannot over come a decapitation.

    The more I ponder this, the more I believe that Teresa's return would negate the emotional effects of Claymore and what Clare endured. What I found endearing and tragic stems from the Teresa Arc. Both Clare and Teresa were wounded individuals who had lost hope to live. Both found a reason to live. Just as they emerged from the tunnel and began peering at the light, darkness returned to end what should have been a happy beginning. To have been given just a small taste of hope and to have it so quickly taken away, is what I found so heart wrenching.

    The void that fills Clare's heart after Teresa death defined her actions. To have Teresa return, even as an adversary, would cheapen Clare's experiences and the story. Physically, it stands to reason that Priscilla will be her ultimate challenge. After she prevails over Priscilla, if she manages to live a human life, as Teresa intended her for to do, will justify Teresa's sacrifice toward Clare.

    ws
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsmile
    I'm curious why some of you believe Teresa will face Clare in the closing chapters of the Manga? I initially thought the Organization would bring her back as one of the "former three Number One warriors." However, it appears that even Dae cannot over come a decapitation.

    The more I ponder this, the more I believe that Teresa's return would negate the emotional effects of Claymore and what Clare endured. What I found endearing and tragic stems from the Teresa Arc. Both Clare and Teresa were wounded individuals who had lost hope to live. Both found a reason to live. Just as they emerged from the tunnel and began peering at the light, darkness returned to end what should have been a happy beginning. To have been given just a small taste of hope and to have it so quickly taken away, is what I found so heart wrenching.

    The void that fills Clare's heart after Teresa death defined her actions. To have Teresa return, even as an adversary, would cheapen Clare's experiences and the story. Physically, it stands to reason that Priscilla will be her ultimate challenge. After she prevails over Priscilla, if she manages to live a human life, as Teresa intended her for to do, will justify Teresa's sacrifice toward Clare.
    I have to disagree. For us to see everything Clare has gone through on her journey for Teresa - the joy she felt when she found her, the loss she felt when she was killed, the vengeance she needs to carry out - and then for her to have to fight the, quite literal, reason for her being would have a profound mental and emotional impact on Clare and the reader. For years, Clare has been little more than a drone with one, singular purpose - revenge for Teresa. She gave up her future, her emotions, her humanity for that one purpose. Do you think that's what Teresa wanted for Clare? Teresa treasured Clare's humanity more than anything she had ever encountered and for her to throw it away so easily would surely sadden Teresa immensely. Why do you think she can't awaken? I, for one, don't believe it has very much to do with Jean (but that's a discussion for a thread). If Clare were to confront Teresa face-to-face it would literally change Clare's entire existence. I certainly don't see that as "cheapening" her experiences or the story.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; September 24, 2011 at 02:06 PM.

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  13. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
    Clare's path in life is solely that of Priscilla's death.

    (incomplete. took too long. too much work)

    (see bottom of my post for the ultimate confirmation of what I've said about Clare, as being correct)

    1. chapter 24 pages 22-29

    "I couldn't even hate the beast that killed Teresa. It was me, overcome by fear, that I couldn't forgive."

    "I don't recall how I lived after that. I only knew I was searching for a stranger dressed in black."

    "I want you to put Teresa's flesh and blood inside me!"

    "And that's how I became the first person ever to knock on the Organization's door of her own free will!"

    2. chapter 25 pages 12-19

    "You never change. Always doing things the hard way..... Or could it be?"

    "You were hoping for that......."

    "Do you want Priscilla's head?"

    "....It's too bad. It isn't you."

    3. chapter 37 pages 1-30. chapter 38 pages 1-31

    (too many lines. Entire chapter shows Clare's determination to kill Priscilla. Irene wants Clare to live. But, Clare just wants to kill Priscilla)

    4. chapter 39 page 21 and pages 29-31. chapter 40 pages 20-37

    "I just wanted to kill my brother's murderer! I just wanted revenge on the monster that killed my brother!.... It's that. That one horned monster's fault!"

    "What are you? You."

    "I'm Clare, number 47. I've taken on Teresa's flesh and Irene's right arm."

    "I'm the one who's going to take the head of that one horned monster Priscilla. Forgive me. But, I have to take your soul, too."

    (too many lines. Clare is clearly shown determined to take Priscilla's life, as seen in Ophelia's game, designed to test how much Clare wants to kill Priscilla and whether Clare has the potential to be able to do so)

    5. chapter 45 page 31 and chapter 46 page 5

    "Tell me the name of the man in the north, I am going to kill his woman."

    6. Etc....

    7. Chapter 100

    8. chapter 101

    9. Etc...

    Especially chapter 37 page 19:

    "You said I should have forgotten everything and lived as a human, but there's no way I could do that. At that time Teresa was everything to me. Everything I lost. My life, my voice, even my joy in living. Teresa gave those back to me. Teresa gave me everything. So I had no choice but to move forward. I wasn't strong enough to forget all that and go on living."
    Teresa was EVERYTHING to Clare, Teresa was Clare's LIFE.

    (and Clare was Teresa's everything, Teresa's life - ......maybe..... see the * paragraph below)

    As great as love is, love is not everything, not life. Raki is Clare's love, but Teresa is Clare's EVERYTHING, Clare's LIFE.

    Priscilla's killing of Teresa, took EVERYTHING from Clare, took Clare's LIFE.

    Clare is dead without Teresa, the only reason Clare continues to breath, is to seek the head of Priscilla, just as Priscilla took Teresa's head, taking EVERYTHING away from Clare, taking away Clare's LIFE.

    Teresa did not understand this when she abandoned Clare in Rokut and said what she wished of Clare, "To live as a Human, To live with Humans, To die as a Human, this must be the greatest happiness in this life". Actually, this wasn't Teresa's wish for Clare, but for herself. This was Teresa's wish, to be human again, despite being "betrayed by those she trusted the most", to get back her "beautiful black hair and beautiful black eyes", instead of having these hideous silver eyes and blond/light hair of a Claymore. After, Teresa's short return, then Teresa understood Clare, understood that Clare's wish was not to be Human, but to merely be with Teresa.

    *And, I'd even say that Teresa also changed her wish to being with Clare as well, but this isn't for certain, as maybe Teresa was just staying with Clare as a duty/obligation to protect Clare from being killed by the Organization, but secretly she still wished to be Human, and not to merely be with Teresa, as Clare wished to merely be with Teresa.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    As for Teresa being Clare's final opponent:

    for me, this makes ZERO literary sense as well as ZERO plot sense. This manga is not so simplistically lame to do that.

    If anything, I'd personally would rather see Clare become the Villain, and Priscilla becoming the Hero instead. Switching their roles, for the start of another 118+ chapters, hehe. Similar to how it was done with the Berserk Anime, *grins*.

    ---------------------------------------------

    Teresa is still "Alive":

    Now, I do feel there's quite substantial evidence that Teresa is "alive" within Clare/Destroyer, and now as apart of the "Blob of 4" (Clare+Priscilla+Destroyer+Rafaela), making it actually the "Blob of 5" (Clare+Priscilla+Destroyer+Rafaela+Teresa) now.

    We don't know what Yagi has planned for Teresa, but as I already expressed, I hope there's not an actual return of Teresa, and certain not a battle between Teresa and Clare, except for the current battle between them already, which is:

    Clare vs Teresa: Deneve is WRONG about "Jean's Wedge" !! :

    1. Clare Partially Awakens and attacks Priscilla
    2. Partially Awakened Clare's 1st Retraction
    3. Clare Partially Awakens again and attacks Priscilla again
    4. Partially Awakened Clare's Huge Blade Arms stop just an inch from obliterating Priscilla's face/head
    5. Partially Awakened Clare's 2nd Retraction
    6. Clare starts to Partially Awaken for a 3rd time now.
    7. Partially Awakened Clare's 3rd Retraction
    8. Clare tries to Partially Awaken for a 4th time now, but can't do so.

    As can be seen, something or someone else is PRVENTING Clare from KILLING Priscilla, it has nothing to do with Clare being unable to Awaken, as she does so 2-3 times. Instead, Clare is ONLY prevented from Partially Awakening, because she won't stop trying to kill Priscilla. So, what or who is preventing Clare from trying to kill Priscilla? Teresa! She's the only one it could be.

    Clare: KILL PRISCILLA! KILL KILL KILL!!! vs Teresa: No Clare! Priscilla deserves mercy! Don't Kill her! Stop Clare!
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; September 24, 2011 at 02:54 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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  15. #8
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    Hi White Silver King:

    I find myself agreeing with a great deal of your comments. Like you, I always wondered if Clare's vengance was the correct path. Not because, it's revenge, but because Teresa had always wanted Clare to live a human life. Should Clare have walked away from it and simply led the life of a simle girl? If anything, these recent chapters have proven that being a warrior and living the life of a warrior does not mean that you cannot lead the life of a human. Raftella's little prose about the friendships and bonds that each has with one another proves this. Atlhough, there are a few exceptions, and we have those warriors that are essentially loners and anti social. I know, it's a far cry from a normal human existence, but the sentiments and emotions are there.

    I guess what I do not understand is what will a confrontation between Clare and Teresa accomplish? Would it heal the hurt that Clare feels inside her? I agree with HK that Clare bares the guilt for Teresa's death. I haven't made the bridge to self loathing on which HK has remarked. Perhaps, it's a question of degree. Her inability to awaken, stemming not only from Jean but from Teresa as well. You might be on to something there.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsmile
    I guess what I do not understand is what will a confrontation between Clare and Teresa accomplish? Would it heal the hurt that Clare feels inside her?
    Not at first. To be quite blunt, Clare needs to get over it. Of course, she is entitled to revenge (I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing she's doing if I were in her place) but it can't be her entire reason for living. What's she going to do after killing Priscilla? Drop dead? As cliche as it is, revenge will not bring you peace. She will still have all the hurt and guilt she feels because Teresa will still be dead. But should Teresa come back (physically or mentally - I'd prefer the latter) Clare will have to come face-to-face with her every choice she's made since she was a child. Obviously, she'll have a break-down of sorts when they encounter each other and either is confronted with 1) Teresa trying to kill her because she doesn't remember her (physical manifestation) or 2) Teresa's sadness at the loss of Clare's humanity. But at the end of the battle (which I don't think Clare will truly win in the sense that she bested Teresa in combat) she will literally slay her guilt/sadness/fear/self-loathing/etc and can finally move on from Teresa and have a happy life with Raki and, possibly, the Ghosts.

    As to where Priscilla comes in, I can see it going one of two ways:

    A) (the "Shonen" way): After her fight with Teresa, Clare forgives the severely mentally-handicapped Priscilla and helps to become a "good guy" (unlikely) or let herself die because she realizes what the monster she's become like Ophelia (what I'm betting will happen).

    B) (the "Claymore" way): After her fight with Teresa, Clare resolves to kill Priscilla not for revenge, but because it is her duty as a Claymore and a protector of humans. Clare kills Priscilla who has a vision of her father welcoming her or something similar before dying. In this case, Teresa would not be Clare's final opponent.

    But I think this entire thread is making a very large assumption - that Claymore, story-wise, will never reach the Mainland. Should it, I expect a new villain to be introduced.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; September 24, 2011 at 09:05 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    who/what do you think will be final confrontation?

    I added a *POLL* to this thread, I'm curious to know what you all think/guess at, hehe.

    I of course chose Rubel, as I've been maintaining this theory of mine for a long time.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; September 25, 2011 at 06:24 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    Hi White Silver King:

    I definitely would not favor Teresa's return in a corporeal sense. It would definitely be a very interesting in the mental/metal physical sense, just as Clare encounted Raphaela within what would become the Destroyer. If that's the case, I don't think it would literally be Teresa the individual but perhaps a collection of her feelings and emotion. Also, Senario A that you described is absolutely within the essence of Claymore. It is about retribution but it's also about rediscovering a sense of belonging and caring (what the bond that holds the Ghosts to each other and to other warriors).

    Some of you will probably despise me for saying this but I don't want the story to continue to the mainland. It should end within the Continent. To paraphrase Neil Gaiman who wrote the Death series of comics (High Cost of Living & The Time of your Life), "It's because it ends, that gives it meaning and value." If Yagi recycles Clares or Miria's story with another character, it will lessen the impact and Claymore's originality. Although, purely from curiosity, Yagi will have to dispel the mystery that surrounds Rubel before Claymore ends.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    Wickedsmile and White Silver King,

    I tend to agree that a return of a corporeal Teresa would cheapen the story line. I do believe that Claire will confront her in the Blob but not as an adversary, more as a way to assuage Claire's guilt. Teresa made a choice when she decided to keep Claire around and protect her from the bandits at any cost. Teresa discovered that she was still human after all. Claire not only needs to forgive herself but humanity as well since her experience with humans was very negative.

    I too hope Claymore has a finite ending. I get bored with endless repeating story lines. That's why I no longer follow Bleach, it's the same retreaded story over and over again with a few twists to keep the hard core fans happy but no real substance. If Yagi decides to take this to the continent, I hope it's with completely different characters. Bringing Claire, et al along would just bring the quality down.

    I also think Raki is going to play a role in the Priscilla vs Claire battle. He's a connection between the two and seems to "get" Priscilla to a point. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

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  24. #13
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    This is just my own belief/understanding:

    Clare's guilt of causing Teresa's death: CURED, thanks to Irene's chat with Clare.

    Clare's Revenge Desire/Goal/Purpose/Mission upon Priscilla: It'll only be cured with Priscilla's death

    Clare's HATRED/Unforgivability/"Yunicevi !!!" of HERSELF: INcurable, Clare will always HATE and be unable to forgive herself, it's Clare's "TRUE DESPAIR", as she herself has testified this to us:

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
    Especially chapter 37 page 19:

    "You said I should have forgotten everything and lived as a human, but there's no way I could do that. At that time Teresa was everything to me. Everything I lost. My life, my voice, even my joy in living. Teresa gave those back to me. Teresa gave me everything. So I had no choice but to move forward. I wasn't strong enough to forget all that and go on living."
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    err... this actually isn't the correct quote.... I'll find and provide it later today!

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (the correct quote, "coming soon", later today)
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; September 29, 2011 at 01:37 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    It has to be either Priscilla, or the Organization.
    But, honestly, to me this manga is now about 2 people : Miria and Clare.

    Clare has her own story and her last boss should be Priscilla.
    Miria has her own story and goal and her last boss should be the organization.


    True love will conquer everything
    The question now is : which of those two loves, is the true one?!
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    Re: Clare's Final Opponent

    While I am still quite new to Claymore, it seems to me that Clare's final opponent has to be Clare. I was never a big fan of Raki, because I always thought him as having the same role as Clare did for Teresa and he was a very poor imitation. These days I think of him as just the promise of a loving relationship for Clare (I still think he was awkwardly written at the beginning, to much like a brother that the romance just seemed wrong) Teresa was raised by the organization as a weapon, purposely neglecting the human side and Clare helped her find it, Clare on the other hand was full of the human spirit to start with, and after Teresa's death started to loose it being consumed with her quest for vengeance. While I see a battle with Priscilla as a likely event with the outcome of Clare winning the fight, the real battle in the fight will be for Clare's humanity, if she strikes her down Priscilla out of anger or vengeance she gives up the last remaining part of humanity, if instead she spares her, or finds a way to forgive her before killing her she saves her humanity.

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