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Thread: [JP] Got some questions about some expressions in a manga

  1. #1
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    [JP] Got some questions about some expressions in a manga

    Hi,

    I recently started translating manga, and I found that in the manga I'm currently translating I can understand pretty much most of it. But sometimes there are expressions or grammar that is unknown to me, or seems different from what I've learned in textbooks.
    I've bolded the parts I'm uncertain of.

    For example:

    1) 僕は俳優だ。殺人鬼の役がきたら殺人鬼になりきらねばならない。

    I translated this as:
    "I’m an actor. If I have to play the role of a murderer, I have to completely turn into a murderer.."

    But what does the bolded part mean exactly? I get that the base verb is なりきる、but I've never seen that form used in a textbook with る turning into らねば, but putting it into google returns quite a few hits. I reckon it's some form of "must do" such as しなければならない?


    2) このボクの殺人鬼の演技を嘘臭いと言いやがった絵空事だとー 口論になって殺っちまった。本当の殺人を味わわせてやったんだ… もっともボクもやり返さえれてしまったけどね…

    This is a pretty difficult sentence. What does the 嘘臭い signify? Couldn't find it in any dictionary.
    絵空事 - meaning the guy exaggerated in this case?

    What I got so far is: "He said that my performance as a murderer was insincere and just a pipe dream. (嘘臭い smelled of lies? Don't see how that fits though).
    It turned into a quarrel and I ended up killing him. He let me savour the taste of a real murder, however, he returned the favour to me (implying he is also dying from a wound from the other guy).

    I think the second sentence is OK, but I can't really translate the first part well because I can't get a proper meaning out of the 嘘臭い together with 絵空事.


    Another one:

    3) たとえ敗れ去ろうともボクは最後の最後まで足掻き続けるんだ!!

    My translation: Even if I were defeated and disappear, I will continue struggle until the very end!!
    Any tips on how to handle relatively uncommon "combined" verbs such as this one that aren't found in the dictionary? I literally translated the two verbs, but I felt there might be something more appropriate.


    And 1 more:

    4) いけないと分かっていてもやらなければ僕は役者として生きていけなかった。

    Lots of verbs in this sentence, but how does it all go together? About the 生きていけない part, what does the second part "いけなかった" signify in this case? Opposed to simply writing 生けなかった or similar?

    My translation: Even if I knew it was wrong I had to do it…I couldn’t live as an actor.


    Sorry for the long post, and thanks for any help you can provide!
    Also, are there any websites where I can reference more obscure expressions or grammar, stuff that normally isn't found in textbooks? The ones I use currently aren't really helpful in situations such as this.

  2. #2
    Translator/Moderator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: [JP] Got some questions about some expressions in a manga

    Quote Quote:
    1) 僕は俳優だ。殺人鬼の役がきたら殺人鬼になりきらねばならない。
    なりきる + ~(し)なければならない = なりきらねばならない
    Other examples:
    話す + ~(し)なければならない = 話さなければならない
    行く + ~(し)なければならない = 行かなければならない

    Quote Quote:
    2) このボクの殺人鬼の演技を嘘臭いと言いやがった絵空事だと2) このボクの殺人鬼の演技を嘘臭いと言いやがった絵空事だ
    嘘臭い ... bogus, looks fake
    絵空事だ...overacting in this case, I think.

    Quote Quote:
    3) たとえ敗れ去ろうともボクは最後の最後まで足掻き続けるんだ!!
    Any tips on how to handle relatively uncommon "combined" verbs such as this one that aren't found in the dictionary?
    やぶれさる(yaburesaru:戦いや勝負事に負けること) is rather a common word, so I was surprised to hear that you didn't find it in the dictionary.

    Try to look up やぶれさる, 敗れ去る, 破れ去る, はいきょ, 敗去, 破去 ... maybe in different dictionaries.

    Quote Quote:
    4) いけないと分かっていてもやらなければ僕は役者として生きていけなかった
    いけないと分かっていても/
    やらなければ/
    僕は
    役者として生きていけなかった/

    生きていけなかった:I couldn't <continue to> live/survive<--depend on context
    Maybe you could just add"otherwise" after "I couldn’t live as an actor" in your translation.

    Quote Quote:
    Also, are there any websites where I can reference more obscure expressions or grammar, stuff that normally isn't found in textbooks?
    Sorry, this question is better answered by other members. (I don't study Japanese...)

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  4. #3
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    Re: [JP] Got some questions about some expressions in a manga

    Thank you very much for your explanation, mikkih, appreciate it.
    Sorry to say, I still have questions though.

    1) About なりきる, is there any difference in connotation between なりきらねばならない and なりきらなければならない ? I'm familiar with the latter, but it's the first time I've come across the former.

    2) I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

    3) Ah, I tried a few different online dictionaries like wwwjdic and jisho.org, and some Japanese ones such as コトバンク and dictionary.goo.ne.jp/, but none of those gave any results whether I typed it in kanji or hiragana or any combination of that.
    I actually managed to find the same dictionary entry you listed later in yahoo though.
    But if there is any dictionary that is more comprehensive that you can recommend, I'll gladly hear it.

    As for whether words are common or not, it just depends on your background I guess. If you're a native speaker and/or immerse yourself a lot with Japanese media, words like this might be very common indeed.
    For others who are from a "textbook" background, such words are definitely less prominent.
    At the moment I'm very much in the latter category, but by doing manga translation I'm trying to climb up a bit in the ladder.


    I'll leave this thread open in case anyone else has additional information or other opinions, I'm really here to learn so more the better, I'd say.

  5. #4
    Translator/Moderator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: [JP] Got some questions about some expressions in a manga

    Quote Originally Posted by Weyu View Post
    1) About なりきる, is there any difference in connotation between なりきらねばならない and なりきらなければならない ? I'm familiar with the latter, but it's the first time I've come across the former.

    3)
    But if there is any dictionary that is more comprehensive that you can recommend, I'll gladly hear it.

    For others who are from a "textbook" background, such words are definitely less prominent.

    I'll leave this thread open in case anyone else has additional information or other opinions, I'm really here to learn so more the better, I'd say.
    1. They are the same. The latter, which you are more familiar with, sounds more colloquial or less formal. A samurai would say "なりきらねばなら。"

    3. For others who are from a "textbook MANGA" background, such words are definitely lessmore prominent.

    It's been only a day, so I would keep this thread open for a few more days as well. After that, you simply need to post the same question in the Classroom which covers general questions. We have a thread such as "What do you guys recommend"which your post will fit very well. *edit Tools for Learning Japanese and Translation is another thread that is good for your new post.

    antonyms for 敗れ去る ... 勝ち残る, 勝利する
    Last edited by mikkih; September 28, 2011 at 09:02 AM. Reason: * edit

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    Re: [JP] Got some questions about some expressions in a manga

    Thanks again!

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