Fate/Zero (Season I & II)

[yukihime03]

Caster ain't dead. The new episode didn't have Servant vs. Servant battle or battles. Overall, it was a good episode. This series has become better and better. How would you rate the servants based on what we have seen so far?

Indeed it's becoming better. Rate how? On their strength? Strategy? Personality?
It's kinda hard to rate their strength since most of their battles don't end up with a clear result. In my opinion until now, Berserker is ridiculously strong. Somehow Saber pales in comparison... But maybe it's becase she hasn't shown her true strength yet...
As for personality, Caster will the last one in that list. He's horrible. *shudder*

[thornofcarrion]

Well said. Its true we don't have much to gauge each servant on the basis of their combat ability. However, little we have seen, Berserker looked really strong. I suspect Gilgamesh (Archer) is the strongest. Iskander feels he could be really strong. Simply put, I hate caster and his master. Gilles de Rais abilities weren't impressive. Nonetheless, Lancer and Saber had quite bit a problem in dealing with him.

What about Assassins? They are good for espionage or lurking, will they be good when they have to fight a real battle?

[yukihime03]

Well said. Its true we don't have much to gauge each servant on the basis of their combat ability. However, little we have seen, Berserker looked really strong. I suspect Gilgamesh (Archer) is the strongest. Iskander feels he could be really strong. Simply put, I hate caster and his master. Gilles de Rais abilities weren't impressive. Nonetheless, Lancer and Saber had quite bit a problem in dealing with him.

What about Assassins? They are good for espionage or lurking, will they be good when they have to fight a real battle?

I can't say that about Gilgamesh because the last time (and technically also the first) he battled Berserker, he had quite a trouble there. Berserker didn't even break a sweat, but I think Berserker is powerful because he's, well, in the Berserker class, and also he's mad.
It's not that Gilgamesh is not strong, he is strong, it's just that he lets his emotion take control of his actions and that kind of weakness is really obvious; therefore, it can be used by his enemy.
Iskander looks strong too, especially above his thunderous carriage, though he hasn't been involved directly in any battle yet...
Caster is never that impressive.
When it comes to Assassins, I think their advantage is their number. If they attack the Servants with their number, they can win but individually, I'm not sure they can last in an open battle. They are assassins anyway; assassins are not usually made for open battle.

[saladesu]

Just caught up with Fate/Zero and I must say the animation quality is really top-notch! It's practically movie level and I think ufotable is really setting the bar super high for themselves and for other studios with the work they're doing with Fate. Well, there's also the fact that ufotable only has Fate to deal with this season, which is why they can devote so much of their resources to it, but I wouldn't complain if their future series were this quality, or if other studios stepped up their game to match the pace. It really is a visual feast to watch Fate/Zero

I'm also really liking the links to Fate/Stay, such as how Shirou is actually foster brother to Ilya (also interesting how Ilya took a liking to Shirou in Fate/Stay), and the contrasts between how Shirou and Kiritsugu act and treat Saber.

As for servant strengths, right now I'm also going with the motion that Berserker is the strongest, in part because he's berserk and truly acts on instinct. Gilgamesh and Lancer have obviously also proved that they are worth their salt, while Rider earned some extra awesome points for being so gar and bro-like I'm looking forward to seeing more of Rider in actual combat. The Assassins have strength in number, certainly. It's only natural that they would be at a disadvantage if one assassin were to take on a single servant, since as I see it, the master's mana also has to be split among them. It would be sort of unfair if every single assassin were as strong as the other servants of the other classes. That would be like having 100 (or however many there are) servants

Caster's abilities are pretty meh, the most outstanding thing about him is his personality, which makes me dislike him a great deal. While it was cool seeing Rin stand her ground and own Uryuu's ass (which also foreshadows [?] her strength as a mage in Fate/Stay), I almost wanted her to be captured by Uryuu just so Tokiomi would send Gilgamesh to kick Caster's ass for good.

[Hamy]

Power level wise Gilgamesh is unrivaled he just never bothers to completely take things seriously, nothing can match Ea & Enkidu should he use it, but he doesn't since he considers everything beneath him (it would be like you trying to use a tank to kill a cockroach). However keep in mind that for this war there are many servants far too broken that power levels seem off. Only thing that can match him is Saber using Avalon, but we all know that won't be happening here :P.

Yes the assassins all carry the same strength, it might seem broken to you but lets just say one of Rider's noble phantasms is equally as broken.

Saber only looks like the under dog now but keep in mind there are too many interruptions. On a more normal one vs one scenario she'd be able to take on all servants below her from Berserker to Lancer.

Caster is far more impressive than many make out given that he doesn't have a stable mana supply unlike the other servants, Uryuu isn't a mage, so the fact that his noble phantasm compensates for that well is rather impressive. He has access to such high level summons without really exhausting much energy. In addition Caster has a lot of tools at his disposal to make it quite difficult to eliminate him.

Power level wise if I recall from the light novels it would be roughly:

Gilgamesh (no point comparing anyone to him he is by far the most broken servant ever not because he owns all Noble Phantasms but because he owns Ea - the ultimate offense - and Enkidu - chains that could bind anything and leave them immobile while it constricts them to death this was even able to completely immobilize Berserker/Hercules to give you an idea but he doesn't use it here)

Alexander (Ranked above Saber for his other Noble Phantasm which is extremely cheap)

Saber/Arthur

Berserker (*hint this guy is in black armor you should be able to figure that out :P)

Blue beard

Assassin (Assassins Noble Phantasm IS to create multiple assassins I wouldn't say they are equal in strength as much as each and everyone is specialized in killing for a certain manner or mission)

Diarmund (he is ranked lowest because he has no anti-army skills unlike every other servant bar Berserker and this is rather crucial for this war)

[thornofcarrion]

Another great episode. The conversation amongst Rider, Archer, and Saber was beautiful. In the beginning, Rider's philosophy of King felt tyrannical. On the other hand, Saber's views were just. However, as the convo progressed, it was not case. I knew Rider would be strong and we get to see his noble Phantasm. So befitting for what he was as a king. Assassins, I am almost certain they are the weakest. Who knows, may be they are held back purposely.

Lets do a little tournament of our own.We haven't really seen enough of servants but for the sake of discussion and fun, I see no point not to:

Format :

Winner of Match 1 fights winner of Match 4
Winner of Match 2 fights winner of Match 3


Match 1 : Rider vs Berserker

Match 2 : Caster vs. Assassins

Match 3 : Saber vs. Lancer

Match 4 : Giglamesh gets a bye

[Hamy]

Assassins, I am almost certain they are the weakest. Who knows, may be they are held back purposely.

They're not the weakest when they're eliminated by a noble phantasm that calls upon heroic spirits - in other words worthy grail candidates - who themselves in that ability have access to weapons or abilities that have been considered Noble Phantasms, it is a requirement for all heroic spirits to have one. Moreover, there are only 88 assassins at a given point and the number of the army outmatches them in addition to terrain disadvantage so~. This is also why I say Lancer is the weakest you will need the ability that is Anti-army to remove Caster, Assassin, and Rider. Only reason Berserker is higher is because his armor is quite protective due to it being a noble phantasm itself, ironically Lancer would be his worst match up since his weapon can pierce magical armor that Caster and Assassin would never be able to go through hence they would lose against him.

As for Round 1: I'd give that to Rider plain and simple.

It's also been proven :P

Gordius Wheel's (the chariot he rides) most basic and weakest attack goes past the defensive capabilities of Berserker.

He was crippled by it

Moreover, what makes Gordius Wheel scary is that it is a CONTINUOUS attack as it can keep on coming back and forth at the same power or intensity that Rider chooses there may be delays as it turns around but point is it will continue to ram you until Rider opts to stop. Berserker does not have the strength to stop it nor would should he take the attack head on. He also lacks a real noble phantasm that would be able to blast it as his noble phantasms are basically raised up stat. Oh and Gordius Wheel is a Rank A+ meaning its an attack you should NEVER take head on simple as that. It's also goes up to a speed of 400 KM/H meaning you can't really run away from it and it will outclass a lot of things when it comes to speed.

Though Berserker has Arondight it would not be enough to deal with Gordius wheel since you would need a blast attack to destroy it or attempt to stop it. Arondight more importantly just tends to raise stats so~

Round 2 would be tougher to answer by merit of what Caster opts to summon? Though no doubt Caster's noble phantasm is superior (its ranked A+ over Assassins B+ and its an anti-army weapon than unit - comparing the two it would be like using a machine gun against a missile). Moreover, Assassins have no defense against magic so they'd be pretty vulnerable to the effects that Caster may use, which include manipulation. Assassin's only real chance is if they manage to hide enough of them to sneak up on Caster and kill him. However, if he summons a huge demon that he merges with or rides atop Assassins wouldn't stand a chance. The foot soldier types you saw Saber and Lancer fighting would give Assassin a chance since they could sneak up on him. Still the creatures summoned by Caster could easily have stats higher than Assassin since their stats are far lower than all the servants. Since really the point of using Assassin is to kill the master not the servant and with this particular Assassin summoned it specializes in just that. Which is another decisive reason why Assassin would be beaten by Caster since Caster can generate its own mana to be independent from its master, it has sorcery ways to do so (reason as well Lancer was ranked lower by me since once his master dies he disappears within a few minutes since he doesn't have independent action). Overall, fight goes to Caster for those reasons.

Round 3: Saber would win if she decided to go serious. Realize that Excalibur would obliterate Lancer if she had decided to use it but because of the honor she accords him she holds herself back to just plain close combat that is disadvantageous to her. Excalibur doesn't really have a long charging time and the blast radius is wide more importantly Lancer has no defensive capabilities against it. Saber would win this hands down, she wouldn't even need both arms to properly use Excalibur as the blast radius compensates for that injury.

[yukihime03]

Wow. This eps is just wow. This eps answers the question "What if the great kings from different eras meet and talk?". Ah well, of course, it is only fictional since we don't really know the true historical kings' personality. King of Heroes, King of Knights and King of Conquerors. Wow.
But, yeah, indeed at first Rider's view seems tyrannical but as he explains it, I understand what he actually means. I don't say that the others' views are wrong, but those points of view work on different time, place and situation. I believe in Saber's view, that King should protect the weak, but I think she did it wrongly. Her ideals only ended up as mere ideals. When she said that a knight left Camelot bla bla bla, I suspect she's talking about Lancelot. If it is so, then it is no wonder Berserker went berserk when he saw Saber back then. I'm getting more curious now what will happen if Saber battles Berserker and finds out his identity.
I won't say anything about Archer since I don't understand what are his points. (He doesn't say much anyway.) Now I see why in Fate/Stay Night, he's obsessed with Saber.

Rider's Noble Phantasm is so cool! We get to see how great Rider is as a king. It was so epic (the scene and the music ). I only lament at the fact that he wastes it to fight Assassins. The Assassins could not even fight back. I also wonder how come someone as weak-willed as Waver could have summon Rider. But maybe it's for the best. He can learn not to be such a coward.

Well, even though we discuss a lot about the Servants' strength, we should not overlook their strategy too. Saber is not the strongest, IMHO coz I agree with your list of power level, Hamy, but her plus point is that she is quite tactful and calm during battle. Gilgamesh is indeed really strong and he's also tactful but his biggest weakness is that he tends to underestimate his opponent. Talking about strategy makes me think that out of all the Servants, I think Berserker will be the one without any tact since... well, he's mad and he acts out of instinct.

[Oni_James]

As much as I'm enjoying Fate /Zero I can't believe I haven't posted here yet.
About this:

Match 1 : Rider vs Berserker

Match 2 : Caster vs. Assassins

Match 3 : Saber vs. Lancer

Match 4 : Giglamesh gets a bye

Match 1 : Rider
Iskandar's Ionioi Hetairoi is too much for

Lancelot

Match 2 : Caster
We will see next week or may be next season, regarding Caster's most powerful monster.

Match 3 : Saber
On their first match, Diarmuid got Saber by surprise. But she was kinda paying attention on where Lancer's master was. Okay, I'm more fond of Saber than Diarmuid, but regardless of that, I think Excalibur's blast it's way too powerful for Diarmuid to dodge...

[mak123]

Was this the last episode of the year?

[riki]

Nope. According to Newtype, the last episode will air next week.

[Oni_James]

Well, it's that time of the year again. Kayneth wishes you all,
http://youtu.be/IgsrmPm0yEQ
Merry Christmas!

[saladesu]

What did everyone think of the latest episode? Lots more talking, but I thought it was pretty interesting. I'm not 100% sure about this (need to re-watch Fate/Stay to confirm it), but isn't new house Saber and Irisviel are going to live in the house Shirou lived in in Fate/Stay, and the storehouse was the one where he summoned Saber? +1 for continuity if so~ I wonder if the magic circle Saber and Irisviel are gonna draw has anything to do with the magic circle that was "already there" for Shirou to use to summon Saber for the next grail war.

This ep also definitely confirmed that the Assassins are dead since Kotomine lost his command spells, but then he got new ones. Gilgamesh was also being very unsubtle in his use of the chess pieces. It was almost like he was suggesting that Kotomine form a contract with him instead (and that he would break his with Tokiomi). Anyway based on what we were shown in Fate/Stay of the previous grail war (ie the one depicted in Fate/Zero), it's already known that at the end of the day it's gonna be Saber vs Gilgamesh but that Kotomine will start a huge fire and raze the whole town. I wonder if this means that Kotomine will betray Tokiomi (wouldn't put it past him ), form a contract with Gilgamesh and become Archer's master, such that the final battle is Kiritsugu+Saber vs Kotomine+Gilgamesh. Not to mention that the 2 main people we were shown in Fate/Stay as being rather important to the conclusion of the 4th grail war and the events leading to the 5th war were Kiritsugu and Kotomine. Kotomine to start the fire and Kiritsugu who saves Shirou.

I'm pretty psyched up for Fate/Zero right now! Kinda sucks that after the next ep (which we know will show more Caster and Rider) there'll be a 3 month break I wonder how they will wrap up this half of the show. I bet there's gonna be a cliffhanger :/

---------- Post added December 27, 2011 at 01:00 AM ---------- Previous post was December 23, 2011 at 12:32 PM ----------

WHAT.A.CLIFFHANGER.

3 more months to the next episode :/ The animation of that thing Caster summoned was pretty amazing, and with this 3 month break ufotable better deliver every one of the upcoming episodes with the same or better animation quality!!!

[yukihime03]

Yep. That's the house... and I think the same magic circle too.
They have to make the base for Fate/Stay story after all...

Pretty much what you said... We already know the end of the battle.. But we are still clueless as to how it leads to that...

Yeah. Bad, bad cliffhanger.
Now I'm extremely curious!!
Yeah, they better come up with something better!!

[Ju-da-su]

...The weirdest way to end the season...Why don't they just end the season at when they defeat (T_T) Castor?

PS. Call me weird, but I like Castor and Ryuunosuke most out of all the Master-Servant pair...Though I'm biased...