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Thread: Naruto 559 Discussion

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xerous's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    well since we're just tossing names around why not Fugaku Uchiha or Kagami Uchiha(less likely)? we've never seen fugaku and tobi in the same location not to mention he was MIA the night of narutos birth and i'm sure the head of the clan could fake a death but then there's the hair issue.....

    Gah somone beat me to it oh well.
    Last edited by Xerous; October 12, 2011 at 05:25 AM.

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Masterpice's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    So this is time for "who the hell is Tobi" all over again. At least we know who was in the last coffin.

    ---------- Post added at 04:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerous View Post
    well since we're just tossing names around why not Fugaku Uchiha or Kagami Uchiha(less likely)? we've never seen fugaku and tobi in the same location not to mention he was MIA the night of narutos birth and i'm sure the head of the clan could fake a death but then there's the hair issue.....

    Gah somone beat me to it oh well.
    Well we saw fugaku when he was dead with his wife and Sasuke was talking with Itachi...and we know that Tobi helped Itachi back then so...i don't think fugaku is one of the options. So what about Obito...after all Tobi has normal sharingan and he didn't have his left eye as long as we know.
    Last edited by Masterpice; October 12, 2011 at 05:34 AM.
    Sorry for grammar mistakes.

  3. #33
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    You are forgetting something guys.
    Back when nagato died and Zetsu and Tobi had their conversation about their future plans, tobi said:
    "i cant believe he betrayed me like that, the rinne tensei was supposed to be for me!!"

    Now that madara was revived, the first thing he says is:
    "this isnt rinne tensei, this is edo tensei."

    I think tobi is madara, but only a "shell of his former self", literally.
    Madara anticpated that he would die against hashirama, and created a failsafe in order to survive the encounter anyways.
    Something like a fake body that has been embedded with madaras mind and chakra (just like the yondaime was able to integrate some of his chakra into naruto).
    He probably used his incomplete izanagi (because he didnt have both senju and uchiha chakra before he fought against hashirama) in order to create that fake body of himself, before he went up against shodaime.

    The reason for this, is that he probably wouldnt have had time to activate izanagi in the fight, 60 seconds before his death, without shodaime noticing it.
    But his plan was to fool shodaime into thinking that madara had died, but in reality he steals the senju part and by creating the illusion that he is dead, shodaime stops worrying about madara.
    As soon as shodaime dies of old age (or whatever else), madara´s fake body (with his mind, and his plan still ongoing) starts experimenting with the uchiha and senju cells, and creates zetsu.
    He uses zetsu to create a better body for himself (as seen after tobi vs danzou´s subordinates, where he loses an arm, but replaces it with zetsu cells), and starts with his plan to somehow get a rinnegan into his hands in order to revive himself.

    He injects senju and uchiha dna into different people in order to enable them to pass on the rinnegan to their childs.
    He succeeds in this and creates nagato (thats why he says, i gave it to you in the first place).
    As soon as madara has all bijuu, he probably would have used nagato to use rinne tensei, in order to revive his real self, and then go on with his moons eye plan.
    But nagato died prematurely, thus madara saying "naruto has thrown a wrench in my plan".

    Thats my theory.

    The line "rinne tensei was supposed to be for me!!!", strongly suggests that tobi is indeed madara, now that we see madara being revived and immediately saying "this isnt rinne tensei, its edo tensei", like he was saying "wtf is going on, the plan wasnt supposed to be like this, i was supposed to be rinne tenseid, not edo tenseid!!!"
    Last edited by gh0un; October 12, 2011 at 05:35 AM.

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  5. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Oathencrantz's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    First of all, if this is indeed Uchiha Madara's true body, then we'll see his MS usage, potentially his EMS usage, and how he fought when he actually wanted someone dead. By seeing how powerful the EMS is right here, we'll get a better understanding of how strong Sasuke's will be when he reveals his. Secondly, we could see a Madara vs. Madara fight sometime soon, lol. Madara's real body controlled by Kabuto, vs. Madara in his fake body, controlled by himself--
    Haha, one of the funniest things I've read so far.

    "and how he fought when he actually wanted someone dead"

    Deidara didn't try to kill Sasuke, either.

    Ha.

  6. #35
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    This means one thing : Either Izuna is fuckin' around, because it is impossible for Edo Tensei to work if the soul is still in the real world or sealed. Or maybe it is Obito (I'm still believing it may be him, although seeing Tobi's body, it seems it is a body of an old man). At least we're sure now, Tobi not Madara.

    Quote Quote:
    You are forgetting something guys.
    Back when nagato died and Zetsu and Tobi had their conversation about their future plans, tobi said:
    "i cant believe he betrayed me like that, the rinne tensei was supposed to be for me!!"

    Now that madara was revived, the first thing he says is:
    "this isnt rinne tensei, this is edo tensei."

    I think tobi is madara, but only a "shell of his former self", literally.
    Madara anticpated that he would die against hashirama, and created a failsafe in order to survive the encounter anyways.
    Something like a fake body that has been embedded with madaras mind and chakra (just like the yondaime was able to integrate some of his chakra into naruto).
    He probably used his incomplete izanagi (because he didnt have both senju and uchiha chakra before he fought against hashirama) in order to create that fake body of himself, before he went up against shodaime.

    The reason for this, is that he probably wouldnt have had time to activate izanagi in the fight, 60 seconds before his death, without shodaime noticing it.
    But his plan was to fool shodaime into thinking that madara had died, but in reality he steals the senju part and by creating the illusion that he is dead, shodaime stops worrying about madara.
    As soon as shodaime dies of old age (or whatever else), madara´s fake body (with his mind, and his plan still ongoing) starts experimenting with the uchiha and senju cells, and creates zetsu.
    He uses zetsu to create a better body for himself (as seen after tobi vs danzou´s subordinates, where he loses an arm, but replaces it with zetsu cells), and starts with his plan to somehow get a rinnegan into his hands in order to revive himself.

    He injects senju and uchiha dna into different people in order to enable them to pass on the rinnegan to their childs.
    He succeeds in this and creates nagato (thats why he says, i gave it to you in the first place).
    As soon as madara has all bijuu, he probably would have used nagato to use rinne tensei, in order to revive his real self, and then go on with his moons eye plan.
    But nagato died prematurely, thus madara saying "naruto has thrown a wrench in my plan".

    Thats my theory.

    The line "rinne tensei was supposed to be for me!!!", strongly suggests that tobi is indeed madara, now that we see madara being revived and immediately saying "this isnt rinne tensei, its edo tensei", like he was saying "wtf is going on, the plan wasnt supposed to be like this, i was supposed to be rinne tenseid, not edo tenseid!!!"
    Then Kishimoto would be changing the rules of Edo Tensei, then it is an asspull... Edo Tensei doesn't work when the soul is sealed (The Hokages for example) or if the person is still alive (if Tobi is really Madara, or it is Madara's soul in a rotten body).
    Last edited by Zehahaha; October 12, 2011 at 05:43 AM.

  7. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xerous's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by gh0un View Post
    You are forgetting something guys.
    Back when nagato died and Zetsu and Tobi had their conversation about their future plans, tobi said:
    "i cant believe he betrayed me like that, the rinne tensei was supposed to be for me!!"

    Now that madara was revived, the first thing he says is:
    "this isnt rinne tensei, this is edo tensei."

    I think tobi is madara, but only a "shell of his former self", literally.
    Madara anticpated that he would die against hashirama, and created a failsafe in order to survive the encounter anyways.
    Something like a fake body that has been embedded with madaras mind and chakra (just like the yondaime was able to integrate some of his chakra into naruto).
    He probably used his incomplete izanagi (because he didnt have both senju and uchiha chakra before he fought against hashirama) in order to create that fake body of himself, before he went up against shodaime.

    The reason for this, is that he probably wouldnt have had time to activate izanagi in the fight, 60 seconds before his death, without shodaime noticing it.
    But his plan was to fool shodaime into thinking that madara had died, but in reality he steals the senju part and by creating the illusion that he is dead, shodaime stops worrying about madara.
    As soon as shodaime dies of old age (or whatever else), madara´s fake body (with his mind, and his plan still ongoing) starts experimenting with the uchiha and senju cells, and creates zetsu.
    He uses zetsu to create a better body for himself (as seen after tobi vs danzou´s subordinates, where he loses an arm, but replaces it with zetsu cells), and starts with his plan to somehow get a rinnegan into his hands in order to revive himself.

    He injects senju and uchiha dna into different people in order to enable them to pass on the rinnegan to their childs.
    He succeeds in this and creates nagato (thats why he says, i gave it to you in the first place).
    As soon as madara has all bijuu, he probably would have used nagato to use rinne tensei, in order to revive his real self, and then go on with his moons eye plan.
    But nagato died prematurely, thus madara saying "naruto has thrown a wrench in my plan".

    Thats my theory.

    The line "rinne tensei was supposed to be for me!!!", strongly suggests that tobi is indeed madara, now that we see madara being revived and immediately saying "this isnt rinne tensei, its edo tensei", like he was saying "wtf is going on, the plan wasnt supposed to be like this, i was supposed to be rinne tenseid, not edo tenseid!!!"
    I disagree nagato said the death needs to be recent so I think tobi wanted that in case he was defeated.

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  9. #37
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Xerous View Post
    I disagree nagato said the death needs to be recent so I think tobi wanted that in case he was defeated.

    Nagato never said that as far as i remember. Care to find the chapter where he says that?
    Tobi foreshadowing it and madara saying it as soon as he is revived is pretty indicative that both are the same.

    Also, if the revived madara says: "this isnt rinne tensei, this is edo tensei" this indicates that he CAN be rinne tenseid, otherwise he wouldnt mention it.
    I think i am spot on with the first part of my theory.

    ---------- Post added at 04:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post

    Then Kishimoto would be changing the rules of Edo Tensei, then it is an asspull... Edo Tensei doesn't work when the soul is sealed (The Hokages for example) or if the person is still alive (if Tobi is really Madara, or it is Madara's soul in a rotten body).

    No its not, because the yondaime was also able to integrate some of his chakra and soul into naruto in order to talk to him, even though his soul was consumed by the death god.
    As i said, madara must have preemptively created tobi in order to finish his plan after his death.
    Using izanagi (which is said to be able to create anything it wants when it is in its perfect state) in order to create a shell of his self isnt too far fetched.

  10. #38
    The True Ninja MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted jorped's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by gh0un View Post
    Spoiler show
    It's a nice prediction, but if so why didn't Madara used the rinnegan already to revive his old self ? And the Rinne Tensei isn't only capable of revive someone that has die recently ?

  11. #39
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    I think the further back the death, the more chakra you need to revive the person. Hence, maybe he needs to juubi's power to actually get himself revived from so far back in history.

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  13. #40
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    This means one thing : Either Izuna is fuckin' around, because it is impossible for Edo Tensei to work if the soul is still in the real world or sealed. Or maybe it is Obito (I'm still believing it may be him, although seeing Tobi's body, it seems it is a body of an old man). At least we're sure now, Tobi not Madara.



    Then Kishimoto would be changing the rules of Edo Tensei, then it is an asspull... Edo Tensei doesn't work when the soul is sealed (The Hokages for example) or if the person is still alive (if Tobi is really Madara, or it is Madara's soul in a rotten body).
    Not true, chakra personality is not the same as a soul, or would you argue that Naruto literally has 1.000 souls when he creates 1.000 shadow clones...?
    All he really needs is something to generate chakra, Madara's cells or similar, so the imposter Madara never runs out of it to maintain his personality and immortal ability.
    So it's entirely possible to leave your personality behind after your death and your soul passes on, we're seeing it all over the place right now, take Orochimaru and Kabuto hybrid as an example, the chakra of Orochimaru may hijack Kabuto, even if Orochimaru's soul is sealed.

    It could also explain why the imposter Madara never fights but users other people for his purposes, he's low on chakra because he doesn't have a full body, to generate a clone, like a full time shadow clone, hijacking another's body.

  14. #41
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jorped View Post
    It's a nice prediction, but if so why didn't Madara used the rinnegan already to revive his old self ? And the Rinne Tensei isn't only capable of revive someone that has die recently ?
    Probably because he doesnt want to reveal the final chapter of his plan yet, as he could have easily rinne tenseid himself back when nagato was still alive.
    He is probably waiting for the last moment (when all the bijuu are gathered and the juubi corpse is already in his hands) before he revives himself, in order to not give anyone an opening to take him out.


    As to why madara is so afraid of kabuto exposing his body via edo tensei, its obvious.
    If the edo tensei madara soul is sealed away with a strong seal (like the death god seal), there is probably no way to rinne tensei it.
    That would completely shit on madara´s plan, therefore kabuto having the upper hand here and tobi agreeing to joining forces with him.
    Tobi is probably looking for a way to take out kabuto, didnt he make black zetsu trail kabuto?

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner sc333's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    If he really managed to split his soul into two parts it would mean that Edo Madara is 'incomplete'. Maybe his death would count as 'recently' if Tobi died and Madaras soul was reunited...
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    I think Nagato said, that he is still in time to safe everyone he killed in Konoha. Maybe it's because of the bodys, that it's not really working if the body is dead for a too long time. But Toby is more or less alive so there would be a body for Rinne Tensei if we go with the theory that Tobi is a backup for the real Madara.
    I think Tobi/Zetsu have something to do with Juuby, Madara and the 1. Hokage. We know white Zetsu are the cells of the 1., black zetsu could be Madara cells and there is the Gedo Mado statue which seems to be the Juuby body.
    Maybe Madara made a pact with the Juuby when he was dying or the Juuby was able to create Tobi from what happened during the fight. Maybe it was the first time, all bijuus were activ together and it was full moon which giave the Juuby the power to influence worldy matters although it's trapped within the moon.
    Last edited by Jira; October 12, 2011 at 06:11 AM.

  17. #44
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xerous's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jorped View Post
    It's a nice prediction, but if so why didn't Madara used the rinnegan already to revive his old self ? And the Rinne Tensei isn't only capable of revive someone that has die recently ?
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-454-9/...apter-449.html it's clearly a time issue not chakra or anything else you might try to conjure up.

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  19. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ninja_Pirate's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 559 Spoiler Discussion

    Then there is a chance that madara has lost the track of time and wasn't knowing in which time period he has been revived.. thus talking about rinne tensei... but ya it does look like tobi has plans to revive madara and that's the only reason why he held back and made kabuto's card as "trump card"

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