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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
The way the Zodiac are described, I got the feeling if Killua stole the ball from Netero during the Hunter exam and was willing to put on a rat costume, he could've replaced Pariston as the rat in the Zodiac. There's probably a few guys in there that you can't just judge them by their looks (sheep seems like one so far), but I think there's got to be a quite a few in the Zodiac that's exactly as dumb as they look.
For Pariston, of course he's going to be part of Gin's objective, but Gin doesn't strike me as openly hostile to Pariston. Unlike rest of the Zodiac he doesn't seem like a 'must take down Pariston at any cost'. I really think the hunt includes rest of the Zodiac, because until a few round goes under the way, there's no way Pariston would be doing anything dangerous. It's going to be the guys who are way behind him that will attempt to make a move given the votes so far. Again, there's no indication Pariston is the only bad guy here, and if you're a conspiring bad guy, you got to take down Pariston first for sure due to the vote he holds. I think Gin is hunting those guys on top of Pariston.
---------- Post added at 10:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------
The most important factor here is to manipulate the extra 8% voters they need to complete the 95% attendance. Pariston can keep getting overwhelming majorities but he is not going to be president if they don't get the desired attendance rate. Honestly, it is not that hard. If you get 34 people to not vote even if every single hunter is there pariston won't win. In turn, pariston can ridge the election if he believes he is not going to win since he has a decent bit of support.Things were simple this chapter but I don't think this will be maintained in the short run.
Another reason is also why the missing brother is an outcast in the first place. It could be that the brother doesn't have any skills of an assassin, but has great abilities as the healer. Thus of course he would be seen as an outcast when he is raised in a family of assassins. This would also explains why the missing brother is suddenly mentioned now and why Illumi thinks the missing brother should be dead (not an assassin, ruin the family name, etc.), why Killua is looking for the him, and negotiating with his dad for info regarding the brother's whereabouts.
This is all a shot in the dark, but it kinda works.
Last edited by huntersq; October 13, 2011 at 11:25 PM.
When Kalluto joined the Spiders, he said that he thought he could be the second strongest amongst Spiders only to find out this isn't even close to the case, but he will not despair because he will do whatever it takes to rescue his brother no matter how long it takes. He's obviously talking about Alluka here (none of the other brothers needs rescuing at this point). From this you can conclude you have to be at least the second strongest amongst Spiders to have a shot at doing this. It's consistent with Illumi recruiting Hisoka for help.
From the way Kalluto puts it, it seems like Alluka is captured by someone who is really powerful. I don't think the danger is in Alluka's personal ability, because by the naming convention he is younger than Killua (between KilluA and KAluto). Killua is regarded as the successor to the family so his talent level has to be highest amongst the sons, and Alluka is younger than him.
Since we're told that Killua is negotiating with Silva and things seems to be going bad there, I'm thinking they need to rescue him from Silva. From this chapter we can tell that Hisoka considers Ilumi roughly the same class as him, and Silva has to be quite a bit stronger than Ilumi. So Ilumi recruiting for help makes sense.
The 95% rule is likely to be some kind of final bargaining chip, but right now it's way too easy to hit it so I don't see Pariston making a big mistake on it. There are already 18 MIA + Gon that can never vote out of the 34 people you need to prevent 95% from being reached. Assuming those 18 MIAs are really dead (but unproveable), this means you only need about 15 people to stop Pariston from ever winning. This is way too easy to get. Pariston may have no qualms about using dirty tricks, but if it only takes 15 people to stop him from winning, that means he bascially has to kill just about everyone who didn't vote for him to prevent 15 people from getting together and not vote. Since that's practically impossible, it wouldn't make sense to do it.
I suppose if he knows who is actually going to not vote he might target those guys, but I'm under the impression only Beans know who voted for who. He didn't tell Gin and I sure don't see him telling Pariston either. You can just show up like Hisoka and turn in a blank sheet of paper and that'd get counted as invalid. Although Hisoka's case is way too obvious, there's nothing stopping you from writing an invalid response and turning it in as if you cast a legitmate vote.
---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------
Observation: when you're down to two parties, basically nobody can win. Assuming 95% is somehow reached, there's almost no chance the top vote getter can have majority (if he has that kind of turnout, the second place candidate can just tell his supporters to not vote). So, you apply the rule and eliminate the #2 candidate and get a ballot with one candidate. Well, at this point, every one who doesn't like that guy is definitely not going to vote, so the sole remaining candidate also has no chance of winning if at least 5% of the people dislike him.
So the winner has to be decided at either the round of 8 or round of 4 candidates. When you get down to 2, it'd be too obvious who should win and you'd just use the 95% rule to prevent the other guy from winning.
So I think Gin's plan is to use the round of 2 as a bargaining champ against Pariston, because if it's down to 2 candidates, there will never be a winner. If Pariston has the overwhelming vote advantage, he'd never be able to win at the round of 2 stage (his opponent will never vote). So what happens is during the round of 4, you can threaten someone by saying you WILL vote, thus getting the threshold to 95% and eliminate 2 more candidates, because you know nobody can win at the round of 2.
---------- Post added October 14, 2011 at 12:13 AM ---------- Previous post was October 13, 2011 at 11:53 PM ----------
Let's say Pariston has about 35% of the votes right now. These guys look pretty firmly entrenched on his side so we'll count those as his fixed base.
It is obvious that they're going to have problem hitting the 95% vote total even if no one is trying to abuse it. Pariston has to be aware that the 95% rule can be used against him.
So his strategy should be to recruit about 15% more Hunters, but tell them to vote evenly amongst the other candidates. That way, it'd look like he only has 35% of the votes while a few competitors are creeping up to him. If you have 4/8/16 voters, spreading 15% out isn't going to let anyone get a majority. Then, you can just look at the total vote %. As soon as it goes over 95%, tell all your spies to for you in the next election, and win like that.
Problem is, this strategy has no chance of working if you're down to 2. We know Pariston is the overwhelming favorite here. His sole opponent would have to be retarded to think somehow 51% of people decided to join his side over the existing favorite, so he'd see that it is a trap. If you have say 4 candidates, assuming the vote would've been something like:
P - 35%
2 - 20%
3 - 15%
4 - 10%
At this point, Pariston can divide his 15% extra helpers evenly amongst the remaining 3 candidates and get:
P - 35%
2 - 25%
3 - 20%
4 - 15%
Now why can't he just give himself those votes? Well, if he did the votes would look like:
P - 50%
2 - 20%
3 - 15%
That's exactly 95%, so basically if he's off by even a small amount, this round still fails, and now everyone realizes Pariston really has 50%, so of course all his enemy will stop voting to ensure he can't win. Basically, he can't show his hand until he's sure the vote total is > 95% because the moment he shows his hand, everyone will unite against him to prevent him from winning.
This could work with 8 or 16 voters, but I think you've to be down to 4 before you can create the illusion someone is close to catching up to Pariston. I'm going to assume Pariston cannot possibly pretend he somehow lost 20% of his voters, not to mention this move could be risky because he might end up being one of the candidates eliminated.
But imagine on a round like this:
P - 35%
2 - 25%
3 - 20%
4 - 15%
Say Gin has 1% of the vote, and he voted for anyone, could even be Pariston, then you get:
P - 36%
2 - 25%
3 - 20%
4 - 15%
That's 96% of the vote, with no majority. #3 and #4 are eliminated, but now we're down to 2, so Pariston has no way to win assuming his opponent isn't stupid. So therefore, even a very small amount of vote can be threatening not because it determines the winner, but that as soon as you eliminate the candidates down to 2, neither of them can possibly win.
Last edited by Phantron; October 13, 2011 at 11:56 PM.
Based on how strongly most of the Zodiac reacted to Pariston, I think most of them would prefer having no leader compared to having him in charge. Based on how those rules are read, it should be entirely possible to have no winner even if you're down to one candidate. In fact, it's really hard to see how the one candidate can possibly win if that guy is Pariston, since there's far more than 5% of the voters that want to see him fail.
I agree with you regarding Kalluto's part, that he is even willing to join the Ryodan in order to find him speaks for itself. While on the other hand we have Illumi, who wants to kill him... Somehow I have a feeling that this confrontation regarding Alluka is going to have a heavy impact on the Zoldyck family.
I wonder what Ging's is up to, he soon dissappeared when the election was held only to re-appear for the votes/re-election. I think that he is setting up a 'trap' for Pariston by looking for clues or evidence regarding those 18 missing Hunters, who somehow got involved with Pariston during those three years. He's probably doing it so that Pariston doesn't win the election.
I read until page 5 and gave up.... XD
I just wanted to give my thoughts about Hisoka's ranking! We know the zodiacs are top-level hunters, but there are monsters like Netero, Zeno, Silva, Gin (i suppose, since he is in the top 5)... So why Illumi is 95? Hisoka is simply comparing to him, not ranking by strengh or fun to battle! If hisoka is 100, Illumi is a bit weaker.... Hisoka even threatened Illumi at the hunter exam one time, so it makes sense. Those zodiacs might not be the strongers too, the Dragon and Boar (the rat i suspect) must be monsters.
hisoka measurments is different from every body
and may hw was measurin the will of the fight of the person
and we know the one of the principales of the nen
the will of the person
i dont think its the will to fight. otherwise. illumi, will never be near 90s. the family operates in such a way they will abandon the mission if theres nothin for them on it... and not fight if the opponent is stronger, like how they taught killua. illumi is an assasin not a fighter in general...
.. i think its more of hisoka's measurement of how strong and interesting the fight against these people are gonna be like. which he could base by how fluid and potent their base aura flow. zetsu? demeanor in reaction to his killing intents, etc.. i dont think theres a way to prove or know really what his basis are for the rankings.
Some people really take issues with Hisoka's ranking of Illumi. From the beginning of the manga, I've always seen the two as equals.
Here's what Illumi has done so far:
Kill the 12 Mafia lords to keep Zeno and Silva in check. Zeno/Silva could have killed Kuroro right then and there, but they're professionals, and they don't kill from pleasure/revenge from what we've seen.
Infiltrate the Ryodan hideout. What's even more amazing is how he's able to escape alive. The Ryodan would have been pissed after the events, wouldn't you think? Still, he's alive with seemingly no problems. To me, that only means he's either stronger than anyone present in the hideout, has a good ability for escaping, or he's acquainted somewhat well with the group (Kuroro trusted him with a mission after all).
In a fight between Illumi and Hisoka, the results could go either way.
Last edited by Reach; October 16, 2011 at 04:13 PM.
Read the manga again. Kuroro wasn't fighting seriously against Zeno/Silva. Zeno made a remark about that.
Though I do agree that Illumi is a top dog. And even if Hisoka's ranking is real, all zodiac members were extremely high ranked. So I don't see the issue.