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Thread: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    It makes sense. Zetsu closes nodes so the aura doesn´t come out. Stopping Zetsu would mean some nodes are open and some are closed, but for Ten all nodes must be open.

    I said nodes would be closed and thus aura won´t ever come out.

    State proof. My argumentation is http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hu...9/c308/17.html. On that page we can see Palm´s hair doesn´t cover Komugi perfectly (it doesn´t even have En blocking properties, is there even something that can block En) so he detected her, but didn´t take her as a threat because she is not a Nen user (no Ten etc., but she has a Nen ability) or a fighter.

    Changing properties of your aura or changing your aura into something is the definition of Transmutation.

    And In being advanced application of Zetsu is the source of the problem (it is bull).

    There is distinct Enhancer Ten, Uvo´s Ten (a master Enhancer) stopped sniper shots (automatically) and bazookas, by the same logic there should be Ten for each Hatsu type.

    So what are you arguing about? It is exactly like I mentioned it for the first time. Except Hatsu part - there is no proof as of yet that proves Ken allows you to use Hatsu more effectively.

    Take a look at the links later then, typos are okay for me if the point comes across. Latent Hatsu is an important point in Hatsu training, they are detecting their latent or inborn Hatsu through Ren (which is increase of amount of actualized aura so that the latent Hatsu is more easily detected) so they can focus on it and later on develop ability that suits them.

    As a sidenote, somehow I get the feeling we are veering from playful tone to some offensive argument so I´ll lay off for at least a week to cool down.
    When you stop using zetsu all of your aura nodes open bcuz they are always open. Zetsu is the only thing that stops that. You dont need anything to reopen them since it happens naturally. And if In really does use zetsu then i guess it involves slightly closing your nodes to make your nen less visible but we dont really no how it works so whatever. Regardless it still fits with thennen system and isnt bs just bvu we dont know the exact mechanics. The same way the god letters are apart of nen but we have no idea how they work. The rest of your post is nonsense. Im not even gonna adress it. You obviously didnt comprehend anything i said so we are done.
    Last edited by tupadre97; July 15, 2014 at 06:04 PM.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    It makes sense. Zetsu closes nodes so the aura doesn´t come out. Stopping Zetsu would mean some nodes are open and some are closed, but for Ten all nodes must be open.

    I said nodes would be closed and thus aura won´t ever come out.

    State proof. My argumentation is http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hu...9/c308/17.html. On that page we can see Palm´s hair doesn´t cover Komugi perfectly (it doesn´t even have En blocking properties, is there even something that can block En) so he detected her, but didn´t take her as a threat because she is not a Nen user (no Ten etc., but she has a Nen ability) or a fighter.

    Changing properties of your aura or changing your aura into something is the definition of Transmutation.

    And In being advanced application of Zetsu is the source of the problem (it is bull).

    There is distinct Enhancer Ten, Uvo´s Ten (a master Enhancer) stopped sniper shots (automatically) and bazookas, by the same logic there should be Ten for each Hatsu type.

    So what are you arguing about? It is exactly like I mentioned it for the first time. Except Hatsu part - there is no proof as of yet that proves Ken allows you to use Hatsu more effectively.

    Take a look at the links later then, typos are okay for me if the point comes across. Latent Hatsu is an important point in Hatsu training, they are detecting their latent or inborn Hatsu through Ren (which is increase of amount of actualized aura so that the latent Hatsu is more easily detected) so they can focus on it and later on develop ability that suits them.

    As a sidenote, somehow I get the feeling we are veering from playful tone to some offensive argument so I´ll lay off for at least a week to cool down.
    Komugi didn't develop Nen until before the King died during their last games. It's shown when she touches the piece and see's all possible moves mentally...Before this she was awakening This is when the King realizes a human as smart as her is developing Nen because of the level of concentration, dedication, love, enjoyment for Gun-Gi.

    Togashi hasn't made such a big mistake as your saying and your honestly trying to disprove something thats fact... I don't see any hints of flame but this may be why the convo is getting heated.

    Wheter it makes sense to you or not that doesn't change it from being fact or right.

    Aura is always dissipating from the body through your pores.

    Ten keeps this aura from leaking out; Ten is maintaining your aura around the body,....That game Ging was playing is a form of Ten, Ten in a sense is like shaping your aura.

    Zetsu Locks all of your aura inside of you, even when normally your aura would leak away. If you lock ya door? Don't you use just twist it the other way to open it? You just stop doing Zetsu to open up ya pores....

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    I would think there is proof that ken generally makes hatsu stronger. Of course, it does not apply to all hatsu however it certainly works for most of it. Ken is basically maintaining ren which means ken is a state in which you are consistently outputting the greatest amount of aura you can. When you are using nen to attack directly the manga has shown that the max amount of aura you can use to power that attack is the amount of aura in your ken. That is basically what ko is. There is also the razor example who is an emitter. When he had his demons around they were using up a portion of his aura which is why when they returned his aura was larger. Same thing would go for transmuters, the maximum of the thing they are transmuting their nen to is the total of their ken. It wouldn't work for conjuration or manipulation though, they work different from the other 3 schools for the most part.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    ^ in the game J-Stars Victory Vs, Gon has 2 modes he can enter: Ko and Ken, whenever he enters Ken his aura is blue/white and his defense is way stronger. When he uses Ko his aura turns yellow and his attacks drastically increase. I just thought this would be an interesting fact for some people.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by tupadre97 View Post
    When you stop using zetsu all of your aura nodes open bcuz they are always open. Zetsu is the only thing that stops that. You dont need anything to reopen them since it happens naturally. And if In really does use zetsu then i guess it involves slightly closing your nodes to make your nen less visible but we dont really no how it works so whatever. Regardless it still fits with thennen system and isnt bs just bvu we dont know the exact mechanics. The same way the god letters are apart of nen but we have no idea how they work. The rest of your post is nonsense. Im not even gonna adress it. You obviously didnt comprehend anything i said so we are done.
    If they were all open then all people would die of fatigue. There are generally three basic node states; Zetsu - all nodes are closed, aura is bottled inside. Ten - all nodes are opened and user retains the aura around him. Normal state - normal people and Nen users not using Ten or Zetsu are at this state, some nodes are open and some are closed, aura is leaking outside.

    In is stated to be an application of Zetsu, but your explanation doesn´t cover In applied on Kurapika´s chains, so there you go.

    I admit there I have no idea what you are talking about right now (god letters?!?).

    You think there is a miscomprehension and you don´t strive to rectify it in any way. You just came here to state your opinions and "facts" without any intent of discussing at all, so yes we are done.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Komugi didn't develop Nen until before the King died during their last games. It's shown when she touches the piece and see's all possible moves mentally...Before this she was awakening This is when the King realizes a human as smart as her is developing Nen because of the level of concentration, dedication, love, enjoyment for Gun-Gi.

    Togashi hasn't made such a big mistake as your saying and your honestly trying to disprove something thats fact... I don't see any hints of flame but this may be why the convo is getting heated.

    Wheter it makes sense to you or not that doesn't change it from being fact or right.

    Aura is always dissipating from the body through your pores.

    Ten keeps this aura from leaking out; Ten is maintaining your aura around the body,....That game Ging was playing is a form of Ten, Ten in a sense is like shaping your aura.

    Zetsu Locks all of your aura inside of you, even when normally your aura would leak away. If you lock ya door? Don't you use just twist it the other way to open it? You just stop doing Zetsu to open up ya pores....
    Komugi didn´t develop Nen at all. She just has Nen ability - she doesn´t have Ten, or Ren, or Zetsu (if you can disprove, by all means do), just like Alluka (if that is a Nen ability at all, or the ability of Nanika remains to be seen).

    The thing is Togashi is not using facts at all. He created some world and a Nen system. In his universe they are facts, but as far as our world is concerned, nothing about Nen is a fact. If it is a fact it can be proved which is not the case in Nen system, you can only use a piece of his (maybe inherently flawed) Nen fiction to prove his Nen fiction.

    when nodes are closed the aura is Not disspating outside - that is the point of Zetsu.

    Shaping your aura into numbers is a basic Transmuter training so there´s that.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I would think there is proof that ken generally makes hatsu stronger. Of course, it does not apply to all hatsu however it certainly works for most of it. Ken is basically maintaining ren which means ken is a state in which you are consistently outputting the greatest amount of aura you can. When you are using nen to attack directly the manga has shown that the max amount of aura you can use to power that attack is the amount of aura in your ken. That is basically what ko is. There is also the razor example who is an emitter. When he had his demons around they were using up a portion of his aura which is why when they returned his aura was larger. Same thing would go for transmuters, the maximum of the thing they are transmuting their nen to is the total of their ken. It wouldn't work for conjuration or manipulation though, they work different from the other 3 schools for the most part.
    I see what you mean and I agree in that sense it would make Hatsu stronger, but there are two things I to mention with that. Firstly; Ken is an incredibly difficult technique, it takes an enormous time to increase Ken sustainability time. If we can take Biscuits´estimations and Gon´s estimations as true then; 1 month of training of Ren = +10 minutes of Ren = +1 minute of Ken, but since Gon and Killua are protagonists AND incredibly talented, they somehow defy those computations, despite that let´s take the computations as true. Secondly; in Knuckle´s aura numbers explanation Ken is considered a very advanced technique, in his thoughts Ken consumes aura much faster than Ten or Ren. From those two points it leads to my opinion that Ken sacrifices efficiency for conveniency AND is incredibly hard to attain, let alone durable. You make your Hatsu stronger but it costs you more aura than usual (in the efficiency POV, not just the amount POV) and the effect making the Hatsu stronger comes from Ren (at least I think). This makes Ken viable technique ONLY for combat, in noncombat situations I would say people would just concentrate on Ren; three hours of Ren > 30 minutes of Ken. So to reiterate Ken does make Hatsu stronger but when taking into account the aura involved, it actually makes Hatsu worse (in the sense that Hatsu doesn´t get the boost it would get in normal situations).

    I get and agree with the Transmuters part, but the Emitter part? I don´t think Ken is involved. Razors´ ability could use explanation here. I don´t know how accurate Hunterpedia (the wikia) is, but there is something missing. Razor must be also using Transmuting. If he were using Conjuring then his dolls wouldn´t be Emission dolls and just by using Emission he wouldn´t get their looks, voices, shapes so he must be using Transmuting. Razor then uses Ren, transmutes that into dolls, cuts them off and Manipulates them from distance.........but since they are an aura......then he must retain them manually....with Ten..... which makes it Ken........ so uh.. yeah you´re right here too.

    As a sidenote, that Razor example got me thinking, what if Killua uses the electricity to recharge aura and not the electricity. If Razor can Transmute his dolls back into aura, then Killua should be able to Transmute his electricity back into aura. That would mean if killua finds an electricity source similar to his electricity, he should be able to transmute that electricity into his aura for him to use.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    I see what you mean and I agree in that sense it would make Hatsu stronger, but there are two things I to mention with that. Firstly; Ken is an incredibly difficult technique, it takes an enormous time to increase Ken sustainability time. If we can take Biscuits´estimations and Gon´s estimations as true then; 1 month of training of Ren = +10 minutes of Ren = +1 minute of Ken, but since Gon and Killua are protagonists AND incredibly talented, they somehow defy those computations, despite that let´s take the computations as true. Secondly; in Knuckle´s aura numbers explanation Ken is considered a very advanced technique, in his thoughts Ken consumes aura much faster than Ten or Ren. From those two points it leads to my opinion that Ken sacrifices efficiency for conveniency AND is incredibly hard to attain, let alone durable. You make your Hatsu stronger but it costs you more aura than usual (in the efficiency POV, not just the amount POV) and the effect making the Hatsu stronger comes from Ren (at least I think). This makes Ken viable technique ONLY for combat, in noncombat situations I would say people would just concentrate on Ren; three hours of Ren > 30 minutes of Ken. So to reiterate Ken does make Hatsu stronger but when taking into account the aura involved, it actually makes Hatsu worse (in the sense that Hatsu doesn´t get the boost it would get in normal situations).

    I get and agree with the Transmuters part, but the Emitter part? I don´t think Ken is involved. Razors´ ability could use explanation here. I don´t know how accurate Hunterpedia (the wikia) is, but there is something missing. Razor must be also using Transmuting. If he were using Conjuring then his dolls wouldn´t be Emission dolls and just by using Emission he wouldn´t get their looks, voices, shapes so he must be using Transmuting. Razor then uses Ren, transmutes that into dolls, cuts them off and Manipulates them from distance.........but since they are an aura......then he must retain them manually....with Ten..... which makes it Ken........ so uh.. yeah you´re right here too.

    As a sidenote, that Razor example got me thinking, what if Killua uses the electricity to recharge aura and not the electricity. If Razor can Transmute his dolls back into aura, then Killua should be able to Transmute his electricity back into aura. That would mean if killua finds an electricity source similar to his electricity, he should be able to transmute that electricity into his aura for him to use.
    I think you are confused about something. Ken is not actually stronger than ren, ken is simply an application of ren where said ren is maintained over a long period of time. Gon and killua did not really defy that either. They had bisk guiding them through the whole thing back then and her ability allowed them to do sleep the equivalent of 8 hours in 30 minutes. In conjunction with their talent they made that month be worth way more than it would have been worth otherwise, they had a few months worth of training all in all. Of course, their talent did help. Still, the end issue is that this is not a "ren or ken" situation but rather its "ken or ken". A short burst of aura (ren) is impractical and ten would not produce even enough aura to defend even from someone using ken, let along more advanced techniques. Which is why producing a high level nen user seems to take somewhere in the vecinity of a decade worth of training..... I guess it is possible to simply use ren to defend but I would argue there are risks to it. You'd have to time it perfectly to defend from attacks but if you miss you'd take a lot of damage. Ultimately ken (and ryu) are the foundation of nen combat, at least in the way gon and killua learned it, there is no way around it.

    Isn't that the implication so far? I don't think killua has an option to recharge electricity but not nen.... Transmuters don't actually produce elements or whatever they transmute their nen into, they simply have nen look like those things. In that regard killua's nen is not actually electricity, it simply has the look and feel of it but it is still nen.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    @Master Oz
    The only way you would die from nen exhaustion would be if your pores were awoken and you never used ten. When they are unawakened they leak normally and even when you learn ten they still leak just slower, which is why it retains your youth for longer. And the god letters are the symbols that made the pirate boxers hastu stronger in the ring in greed island. They are also what ging put on that metal box and tape he left for gon, and what was on the promise band wing made for gon that snapped when he used nen. We have no idea how they work similarly to how we don't know how In works. But seeing how you don't even no what they are or even how ten works for that matter you clearly don't understand nen so again there is no reason for us to debate this.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I think you are confused about something. Ken is not actually stronger than ren, ken is simply an application of ren where said ren is maintained over a long period of time. Gon and killua did not really defy that either. They had bisk guiding them through the whole thing back then and her ability allowed them to do sleep the equivalent of 8 hours in 30 minutes. In conjunction with their talent they made that month be worth way more than it would have been worth otherwise, they had a few months worth of training all in all. Of course, their talent did help. Still, the end issue is that this is not a "ren or ken" situation but rather its "ken or ken". A short burst of aura (ren) is impractical and ten would not produce even enough aura to defend even from someone using ken, let along more advanced techniques. Which is why producing a high level nen user seems to take somewhere in the vecinity of a decade worth of training..... I guess it is possible to simply use ren to defend but I would argue there are risks to it. You'd have to time it perfectly to defend from attacks but if you miss you'd take a lot of damage. Ultimately ken (and ryu) are the foundation of nen combat, at least in the way gon and killua learned it, there is no way around it.

    Isn't that the implication so far? I don't think killua has an option to recharge electricity but not nen.... Transmuters don't actually produce elements or whatever they transmute their nen into, they simply have nen look like those things. In that regard killua's nen is not actually electricity, it simply has the look and feel of it but it is still nen.
    Ken should be a bit stronger than Ren. With Ren you bring up more aura than usual and it dissipates. On the page you used there is no indication of Ten used, Ken is just showed as keeping your Ren on, but if Ten is indeed involved (and it should be since it is defined as such), then the surface of Gon´s aura on that page should be similar to a line, Ken thus would be a controlled and more contained Ren - thus stronger than Ren, but only because of condensation. In the new anime (I know it does not constitute a proof, since that anime is not very consistent in Nen portrayal) Gon´s aura´s outline is a line indicating a Ten usage (ep 64, around 5:40).

    Unless my math or starting data is wrong, let´s suppose in that month they get 2 months and a half worth of training thanks to Biscuit cheating sleeping time. That would mean their Ren should have been lengthened by 25 minutes, but they start at around 55 minutes mark and end up overcoming 3 hours mark with a generous power left. That would make their increase roughly 125 minutes. They got roughly 5 times worth out of that training than they should have, which is, in my opinion (and in the end a matter of opinion), defying to say the least.

    Let me ask you a question, if they can maintain Ren over 3 hours and Ken only for 30 minutes, why is it that they should use Ken and not Ren if the boost is the same (I know you touched upon that in your post but...)? I would answer that because Ren is not under their control, is uneven (the spiky surface is an indication of that) and dissipates aura needlessly into the air, whereas Ken retains aura, evens the surface, makes aura more condensed - thus more useful for defense.

    Well Killua transmutes his aura into electricity but it still is his aura, but transmuting real electricity into aura is in my opinion a feat on a completely different level. Not taking into account that, of all kinds of electric currents there are, Killua just happens to find one compatible with his ability? Well, I have already said in 348 chapter discussion (I don´t expect you to know that, just that I already posted similar thing before) that now I am convinced that Togashi approaches Nen functionally, so in that view it would make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by tupadre97 View Post
    @Master Oz
    The only way you would die from nen exhaustion would be if your pores were awoken and you never used ten. When they are unawakened they leak normally and even when you learn ten they still leak just slower, which is why it retains your youth for longer. And the god letters are the symbols that made the pirate boxers hastu stronger in the ring in greed island. They are also what ging put on that metal box and tape he left for gon, and what was on the promise band wing made for gon that snapped when he used nen. We have no idea how they work similarly to how we don't know how In works. But seeing how you don't even no what they are or even how ten works for that matter you clearly don't understand nen so again there is no reason for us to debate this.
    Well your post said if you stop Zetsu all your pores are opened, because they are always opened, which is factually false and I illustrated that in my post. If all pores were opened all the time normal people would die, since they don´t know Ten. Hence the need of opening all your nodes to utilize Ten.

    I knew about those, I just didn´t know they were called God letters (aren´t they called sacred symbols in Viz translation?). And we know how they work - you infuse the paint with Nen over a long period of time. If the Nen enhancing properties come from the signs then there would be no need to infuse the paint with Nen.

    This is the second time you use that passive aggressive tone with me. The next time you use that, I will ignore any points and remarks you make.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    Ken should be a bit stronger than Ren. With Ren you bring up more aura than usual and it dissipates. On the page you used there is no indication of Ten used, Ken is just showed as keeping your Ren on, but if Ten is indeed involved (and it should be since it is defined as such), then the surface of Gon´s aura on that page should be similar to a line, Ken thus would be a controlled and more contained Ren - thus stronger than Ren, but only because of condensation. In the new anime (I know it does not constitute a proof, since that anime is not very consistent in Nen portrayal) Gon´s aura´s outline is a line indicating a Ten usage (ep 64, around 5:40).
    Ten is irrelevant here, it never comes into play. Ken is simply an state where ren is maintained, nothing else. There is no reason for us to think there would be a difference in output or condensation when it comes to either technique. Its better to simply base of the manga.


    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    Let me ask you a question, if they can maintain Ren over 3 hours and Ken only for 30 minutes, why is it that they should use Ken and not Ren if the boost is the same (I know you touched upon that in your post but...)? I would answer that because Ren is not under their control, is uneven (the spiky surface is an indication of that) and dissipates aura needlessly into the air, whereas Ken retains aura, evens the surface, makes aura more condensed - thus more useful for defense.
    I would argue it is because they risk themselves getting hit while in ten. The purpose of ken is to have a high amount of aura covering their bodies most of the time. Ten while less taxing is also a less efficient defense. In the manga ren and ken have the same look, dunno about the anime. If they only use ren they risk getting hit while not in ren which is deadly. More so, building ren can take time too. Not too much but in a fight it can be crucial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    Well Killua transmutes his aura into electricity but it still is his aura, but transmuting real electricity into aura is in my opinion a feat on a completely different level. Not taking into account that, of all kinds of electric currents there are, Killua just happens to find one compatible with his ability? Well, I have already said in 348 chapter discussion (I don´t expect you to know that, just that I already posted similar thing before) that now I am convinced that Togashi approaches Nen functionally, so in that view it would make sense.
    We should just take that as is... I don't think we can make sense of that on our own lol.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ten is irrelevant here, it never comes into play. Ken is simply an state where ren is maintained, nothing else. There is no reason for us to think there would be a difference in output or condensation when it comes to either technique. Its better to simply base of the manga.

    We should just take that as is... I don't think we can make sense of that on our own lol.
    I think I will cause you some illness just from reading this but here goes.

    I feel really conflicted here. If Ken is stated as an application of Ren and Ten and (on the same page!, the one you referenced) is described as just a maintaining of Ren, then for me that goes against each other. Either Ten does not come into play at all and then it goes against the first explanation or it does come into play and then it goes against the second explanation (and maybe representation). Going one step further in the no Ten relevance why is "keeping" one´s Ren 10 times aura demanding than keeping "Renning" off then? What IS the qualitative difference between maintaining your Ren and keeping "Renning" off?

    You know I hope after reading that no one will go through manga and try counting volume of aura shifted around in Ken and Ryuu just to prove you either wrong or true.

    Agreed.

    Quote Quote:
    I would argue it is because they risk themselves getting hit while in ten. The purpose of ken is to have a high amount of aura covering their bodies most of the time. Ten while less taxing is also a less efficient defense. In the manga ren and ken have the same look, dunno about the anime. If they only use ren they risk getting hit while not in ren which is deadly. More so, building ren can take time too. Not too much but in a fight it can be crucial.
    I read this paragraph at least 5 times and I stil don´t think that it answered my original question; If they can maintain Ren over 3 hours and Ken only for 30 minutes, why is it that they should use Ken and not Ren if the boost is the same?. I think you got Ten mixed up there with Ren in my question, but i will address what I can.

    Ren does that too and they can do it much longer than Ken.

    I can´t wrap my head around that sentence, really. Either it is a Tautology or there is something missing (at least for me).

    Well, I think even without taking into account the anime portrayal it follows that if Ken is just maintaining one´s Ren, then Ren and Ken should be of equal speed, since the source is one and the same - Ren, no?
    Last edited by Master OZ; July 30, 2014 at 09:17 AM. Reason: Whoops stealthy goblins ate a part of my post

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    I think I will cause you some illness just from reading this but here goes.

    I feel really conflicted here. If Ken is stated as an application of Ren and Ten and (on the same page!, the one you referenced) is described as just a maintaining of Ren, then for me that goes against each other. Either Ten does not come into play at all and then it goes against the first explanation or it does come into play and then it goes against the second explanation (and maybe representation). Going one step further in the no Ten relevance why is "keeping" one´s Ren 10 times aura demanding than keeping "Renning" off then? What IS the qualitative difference between maintaining your Ren and keeping "Renning" off?

    You know I hope after reading that no one will go through manga and try counting volume of aura shifted around in Ken and Ryuu just to prove you either wrong or true.

    Agreed.



    I read this paragraph at least 5 times and I stil don´t think that it answered my original question; If they can maintain Ren over 3 hours and Ken only for 30 minutes, why is it that they should use Ken and not Ren if the boost is the same?. I think you got Ten mixed up there with Ren in my question, but i will address what I can.

    Ren does that too and they can do it much longer than Ken.

    I can´t wrap my head around that sentence, really. Either it is a Tautology or there is something missing (at least for me).

    Well, I think even without taking into account the anime portrayal it follows that if Ken is just maintaining one´s Ren, then Ren and Ken should be of equal speed, since the source is one and the same - Ren, no?
    Well, ren to begin with is considered an application of ten. It comes down to specific parts of it. Ten is about aura not leaking away and keeping it around you. Ren is about having your maximum aura output not leak away too. Ken is about maintaining ren which implies aura not just leaking away which is the principle of ten.

    Isn't ren simply a burst of nen? I was under the impression that it was a short term thing by definition. Ken in turns breaks that barrier and works under the principle of maintaining it over a long period of time.

    Didn't the manga say that the reason ken lasted less in battle was because in battle many other factors came into play? During training gon and killua remained basically stationary but while fighting they move around and have to concentrate and whatnot.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, ren to begin with is considered an application of ten. It comes down to specific parts of it. Ten is about aura not leaking away and keeping it around you. Ren is about having your maximum aura output not leak away too. Ken is about maintaining ren which implies aura not just leaking away which is the principle of ten.
    Ren is not an application of Ten. It is one of the 4 main techniques alongside Ten, Zetsu and Hatsu. Ren is all about actualizing more aura, but it will leak away. If Ren stopped the leakage of aura, then Ken wouldn´t be called Ken (it would be just Ren)- since the added value of Ken from just a Ren is the fact that it won´t leak away (thanks to the Ten).
    Quote Quote:
    Isn't ren simply a burst of nen? I was under the impression that it was a short term thing by definition. Ken in turns breaks that barrier and works under the principle of maintaining it over a long period of time.
    Well Ren is indeed short but if Killua and Gon can learn to keep Renning off for three hours then in that case it is no longer a short burst of Nen. Ken´s length is directly dependent on Ren´s length because the naming "Ken" refers to special simultaneous use of Ten and Ren, while another simultaneous use of Ten and Ren is referred to as "En" to differentiate it from "Ken".
    Quote Quote:
    Didn't the manga say that the reason ken lasted less in battle was because in battle many other factors came into play? During training gon and killua remained basically stationary but while fighting they move around and have to concentrate and whatnot.
    I think I misunderstood your point. "building your ren can take time" - how fast ren comes out; It comes out really quickly. "last in battle" - duration in battle; Yes indeed it lasts much less because of emotions, stamina is also used for other things (jumping around, blocking, punching, kicking, etc.).

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    ^ Ren is in fact the burst of aura, and Ten is maintaining it around the body. Both Ken and En are applications of Ten and Ren. The difference between Ken and En is the range they cover. In Ken, Ten maintains the Ren close to the body for defence; while in En, Ten maintains the Ren as far as possible from the body to sense objects. Ken gotta be as difficult to keep as Ren, if not easier. In Ren, you have to keep bursting aura; as you keeping letting out aura, you'll eventually get exhausted. But in Ken, you maintain the aura, you won't have to keep bursting at the same rate; there's a lesser chance to get exhausted from Ken than Ren.


    I wonder why Knuckle's Potclean have instantaneously appeared from no where near Pouf when Knuckle hit his copy at the palace when the King was in his way to it. He can't be emitting his aura all the way to the real Pouf that fast.
    I have a theory but let me first see what your thoughts are on that.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Master OZ View Post
    Ren is not an application of Ten. It is one of the 4 main techniques alongside Ten, Zetsu and Hatsu. Ren is all about actualizing more aura, but it will leak away. If Ren stopped the leakage of aura, then Ken wouldn´t be called Ken (it would be just Ren)- since the added value of Ken from just a Ren is the fact that it won´t leak away (thanks to the Ten).

    Well Ren is indeed short but if Killua and Gon can learn to keep Renning off for three hours then in that case it is no longer a short burst of Nen. Ken´s length is directly dependent on Ren´s length because the naming "Ken" refers to special simultaneous use of Ten and Ren, while another simultaneous use of Ten and Ren is referred to as "En" to differentiate it from "Ken".

    I think I misunderstood your point. "building your ren can take time" - how fast ren comes out; It comes out really quickly. "last in battle" - duration in battle; Yes indeed it lasts much less because of emotions, stamina is also used for other things (jumping around, blocking, punching, kicking, etc.).
    Ren being an application of ten is something directly stated in the manga.

    "Renning" is the exact same thing as ken though. The manga specifically says ken is a sustained ren, nothing else.I showed the link for that earlier.

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    Re: About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

    This is from the Databook:

    Quote Quote:
    Ren (練, Refine; Enhance) is a direct application of Ten. Since a user is capable of keeping aura from leaking away from the body, it's also possible for them to produce more aura around themselves without having to worry about losing it. Ren focuses on outputting a high amount of aura and keeping it on the body, expanding the size and intensity of it. If Ten is considered to be purely defensive, then Ren typically what is used for offense. This increases the user's physical strength and durability and provides a large pool of aura for any advanced techniques or individual skills they decide to use.
    I hope that this helped.

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