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You know, now that I read your post with a second read I understand your point. You're right on that. Damn, now I should re-read all the post here in the case I changed my mind about something else :P
Been a fan of HXH for the longest time. What drawed the most with this manga is how intricate and deep the Nen aura system is. I have never seen an anime/manga that has so much substance on how it lays out the foundation of super powers.
Examples are (SPOILER ALERT)
-Gon's Janken rock (including Mature Gon's)
-Ubogin's Bing Bang impact
-The Guy with Tops at heavens arena
-Any weapons reinforced (Kurapika's chain/Scissor hands scissors/ Nobunaga's sword/Hisoka's cards)
-Leol's tidal wave technique (remember how reinforcements increases the volume of water. Water can easily be materialized, then reinforced like cake!)
-Zazan's transformation to ultra thick, ugly version (If you think about it, it's kinda the same as Gon's transformation to mature Gon or Youpi's morphing ability [I'm getting this confused with Transformation as well])
-Kurapika's healing chain
-Phinx cyclone ability
-Zoldicks Butler reinforced coin attacks
Emmision: Any destructive projectile aura
-Gon's jajaken paper
-Silva's Dragonball Z balls of destruction (He lets them go at Kuroro and Zeno. Hint of reinforcement in there)
-The Guy with the wheelchair at heavens arena who used the super dash to escape Killua
-The Guy with one hand at heavens arena that used his aura to suffocate Zushi
-Razor's dodgeball powaaa...
-Netero's buddhas's ultra mega ownage beam (used on King)
-Bonolenov's ultimate attack (with a hint of strengthening and transformation. The same as Silvas balls)
-LEORIO FALCON PAUNCH!! (I don't know. Theres a hint of specialization in here somewhere)
-Feitan's ultimate attack (used on Zazans. But I think theres a touch of transformation in there to make it into a sun [I don't know if materialization can make pure, hot, radiating fire])
-Kalluto's ability (with a hint of manipulation with where the ability will hit with the help of paper)
-King's super powerful ray gun.
-Pokkles rainbow arrow ability
Transformation: Anything that changes the consistency of particles either aura or object
-Hisoka's bungie Gum
-Bomb Devils big flowaaa attack
-Machi's threads (Kurapika had to use Gyo to actually see)
-Meleron's camoflauge ability
-One of the 10 shadow beast that turns into a blowfish porcupine (I have no idea if he reinfoced the growth of the hair or materialized it. Hell, ill just go with transformation)
-One of the shadows beast that changes his fang and has paralysis poison
-One of the shadow beasts who made a habitat in his stomach to cultivate different kinds of leeches.
-Old hag butlers ability to transform into a motorbike or plane (a hint of materialization)
- Gon jajaken scissor (or anything that changes the auro into like a lightsaber substance)
Manipulation: Aura or objects being controlled
-Materialized copies controlled (The guy Hisoka killed in heavens arc/Razors dodgeball buddies/ Goreinu's monkeys/ The guy that got killed by Franlin controlling the puppets/Netero's buddha)
Veize's /The Lady that manipulates with her kiss
-Ikalgo the octopus (not squid)
-Morels smoke/pipe abilities (smoke is already there/materialized, then controlled)
-Senritsus mood altering music
-Shoot's hands that took away Killua's eye (maybe a hint of specializtion for that to happen)
-The guy that got killed by Franklin who threw furniture at him (like a freakin homing missle) or any case, any manipulated weapons like Kurapikas chains
Materialization: Objects/weapons made with rules and restrictions (only suck dead things/ only last 24 hours/ only used on spiders)
-Netero's Buhdda itself
-Any copies ([tentative] Kastro's doppleganger/ Razors devils/ Goreinus apes/
-Kortopi's copy ability
-Pitou's huge ass puppet
-Kite's multifunctional/randomized weapons
-Pouf's butterfly copies
-Biscuits massage therapists
-Exorcist Abeganes swallowing monster then contain you thing..
-Goreinus apes (not sure if pure aura emmitted or materialzed apes)
-Bomb devils materialized bombs that appears when he explains he's the bomb devil.
-Shoots hands and cage.
-Owl/shadow beast handy dandy shrinking handkerchief.
Specialization: None of the above
-Kuroro's stealing abilities
-Pakunoda's mind reading skills
-Cheeto's magical place of tag
-Hina's exorcism ability
-Knovs room of rquirment lol!
-Palm's all seeing eye
-Alluka's insane broken wish ability
-Neon's future poem reading ability
-Basho's lie detection ability (chair set on fire)
Tell me if I missed anything...
And what do affinity do you think is the coolest?
Leo had the ability to burrow nen from others if he fulfilled a number of conditions. Wouldn't that normally fall into specialization? Of course the nen type of the surfing technique he actually used is another matter. Even with enhancement I doubt such water volumes could be explained. The surf board itself seemed conjured though.
Zazan's ability seemed to be more biological than nen related.
Gotoh's ability would require a good deal of emission more than even reinforcement.
Zilva and zeno have both been confirmed to be transmutters by the databook.
The guy with the nen hand never really separated from it. No emission there at all. Considering that he simply changed the nen into the shape of a hand it is certainly transmutation. I would argue the whole thing is basically the same as gon's transmutation training where he changed the shape of his nen into numbers.
Netero is a confirmed enhancer although that makes no sense whatsoever about what in the world his hatsu was. Materialization is a good deal away from enhancement so it is unlikely that is what is going here. My little theory is that netero became a specialization and the statue appeared as a result if his enlightenment.
Bonolenov is a bit of a weird case. We have no confirmation of whether the stuff that appears when he attacks can be seen by normal people so we really do not know if it is conjured or emission. It could go either way.
The armor around feitan seems conjured IMO. The manga implies feitan has several armors which has the implication that he has several abilities. I think it makes more sense that he has several armors as a conjurer than as a transmutter.
Kaluto uses paper to attack. I would argue that makes a lot more sense with manipulation. Worst case scenario she is a conjurer.
The kings abilities were related to the abilities of his guards. I would argue they would be of the same type as them in that case. I think their nen types were revealed in the manga but I can't recall what they were.
The hatsu used by castro was conjured, that was said in the manga. His main nen type was said to be most likely enhancement but didn't use it.
Cheeto is certainly solely a conjurer. Conjuring spaces out of nen is not unheard of, we have seen novu doing it. He also conjured his crossbow.
Goreinu uses emission. Its the same thing as with razor's guys.
Basho if I recall is a manipulator. His ability was not just lie detection but rather giving orders to stuff through his haiku.
Gotoh is emission? How?
And I think Bonolenov transform Music into attack, which will make him Transformation. And I thought the King was surely Specialization. :O King Gourmet at least surely is.
I wrote several posts on the matter not to long ago on why I think he is most likely emission. Overall, his ability needs emission for the nen in the coins to maintain its power. Enhancement would be a factor here however the best nen type to maintain the power of the coins after they lose contact with his body is emission.
Transforming music into attack does not make sense from a nen point of view. Transformation is about transforming nen into other things basically. Transforming music into attacks would kinda skip that little bit even if we set aside that music is in itself either an abstract idea or not nen in itself. With this guy the most likely scenario is that his dancing affects his nen in some way which results in attacks. In a way the dances would be the conditions for the attacks perhaps. I just think conjuring stuff makes more sense here as it is a simpler explanation. If he uses transformation then his ability allows him to attack by using transformation and emission in conjunction with his dancing. If he conjures then his dances simply determine what attack is going to be conjured. Not to mention that transformation and emission has generally shown to be a bad combination so far (look at hisoka and machi).
I'll always support Zeno's DragonDrive and Dragonhead as being Emission abilities. I don't see how they can be Transmutation type, unless he just choses to not use his strength (which is possible, similar to how Netero's hatsu doesn't really seem all that Enhancement related).
I would argue that the transmutation aspect is most evident in the fight between zeno and chrollo. During that fight he used his dragon ability however he never actually separated from the dragon, the nen was attached to him the whole time. In this regard, his main fighting style is basically extending and controlling his transmuted dragon. He can use emission as shown during the quimera ant arc however the hatsu itself and the main way he uses it is actually a rather simple transmutation.
So, the anime confirmed my formula
Well, more like:
(Attack + Nen) * Condition Difficulty
But I was close in the shape :P
---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------
So, for Reinforcement users will be like this:
(Attack + Nen )*Condition Difficulty = Damage Done.
Nen= (Basic Nen Technique + Experience Bonus + Current State of Mind Factor) * Hatsu
What you guys think?
I'll go with the consensus on the Japanese boards that Netero using Emission is due to his physical skills have atrophied due to old age. HXH isn't a world where the older you get the stronger you become. Although Aura users have a long peak, it's definitely not forever. Reinforcement techniques are dependent on your body strength and is subject directly to effects of old age. While other techniques no doubt is affected by your physical strength, they presumably don't have a direct dependence the same way Reinforcement does.
All Hatsu abilities if not Most uses More than 1 of the Categories of Nen. Your Suppose to use the closes of categories next to your natural Ability to create an Hatsu with the strongest abilitiies and lowest weakness....
Enhancers- Uses Nen to Strengthen The Body, Objects, Healing. Most applicable with Transmutation & Emission. Less applicable with Manipulation and Conjurers.
Transmutation- Able to change Nen to mimic properties, texture, shape and elements of things...Ex.Gum, Rubber, Fire, Electricity, or change nen into dragon heads, swords..Etc..Again Most applicable with Enhancement & Conjure. Less applicable Emission and Manipulation
Conjurers- Able to create Items with their Nen. Placing circumstances,Oaths, Vows, Random luck,or restrictions, limits you are able to create items that are stronger and have crazy abilities.......This can also be applied to the other Nen abilities in general but are more required for Conjurers and Manipulators...Most applicable with Transmutation and Manipulation..Also These Users have a chance to become Specialization Nen users
Emitters- To be able to extend your Nen beyond your body, experts can leave their Nen for prolonged periods of time. Most Applicable with Enhancement and Manipulation.
Manipulation- Able to control Things with your Nen. Ex. Organisms, Machines, Objects...Same as Conjurers Limits, Deals, Circumstances, Oaths and Vows are placed to allow More or Better control over these things...Most Applicable with Emitters and Conjurers.....Like Conjurers They have a chance of becoming Specialization Users.
Specialization- Abilities that fall outside any of the 5 categories. Ex.Usage of All Nen to 100%, Fortune Telling, Ability to Steal others Hatsu ability. Technique's that have requirements but give out an extraordinary ability in return.
Gon is an Enhancer. He Enhances his Fist Using Ko focusing all his aura into his fist for an Super Punch. He also uses Emission to shoot his Aura off as a sphere And to extend his aura up from his finger changing the texture using transformation to be able to cut something.
Razor is an emitter. He Emits his aura to create clones to play volleyball and strengthens his clones and Aura with Enchantment. He also Controls them through manipulation Nen...............Both Gon and Razor use their Hatsu abilities employing more than 1 category of Nen and they are both the closes to their natural selection of Nen.
Hisoka an Transmutation user turns his aura into Bungee Gum. He can make it stick to things like gum, resilient like rubber and can make it extract and sling it around like a rubber band. He can use emission at 60% to leave his Nen around in it's transformed to state to catch unsuspected prey, use in a manner of tricks n skills or slingshot himself around like he did agasin't Gotoh.....Also He can strengthen it with Enhancement 80% in case somebody tries to break it....He also can emit his nen again to transmutate something to his liking,,fake skin,text.
Bomber- Perfect example here, he uses both Transmutation and Emission for his Bombs. He turns his Nen into explosive properties of a bomb and can place this on you through Emission having his Bomb Nen stick to you and blow you up...His basic form of this is simply blowing off Gon's hand and damaging his wrist with his Nen. Or the Bomb he plants on Ppl and threaten's to blow them up.
The advance Applications of the basic 4 Nen principles( Ren,Ten,Zetsu and Hatsu) Also can be traced back to Nen categories..As an Emitter would be great at En while an Conjurer wouldn't be as so much....Or Shu which is strengthening an object if your an Enhancer you would excel at this while Manipulators and Conjurers wouldn't or simply wouldn't be as strong or durable compared to an Enhancer, Emitter or Transmutation.
As you see Hatsu abilities consist of more than 1 category and the better the ability the closer you stay to ya point of origin. So to become a pro Nen user it takes Years and Years only Prodigies and Genius learn these abilities and application within short amounts of time. Goes to show you how scary some ppl are in the HXH World. Killua and Gon have a long way to go as they just learnt Hatsu and advance nen usage...Killua I would say is off to a good start.
Last edited by XXGenesis; November 25, 2012 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Added More Info.
A theory to determine levels and efficiency in HxH and how they determine how powerful a nen user is according to Kurapika's example
In order for this theory to work the level is defined as a way to determine how strong the dmg or attack power or aura power in general of the hatsu are for that person. Idk the exact formula Togashi uses to define how his "levels" correspond with attack power of a hatsu but we'll just say the level:dmg/overall power of hatsu ratio is 1:100. Also the "force and accuracy" will be treated as another term for efficiency. For this example we'll start off his with Gon...
So for this theory we'll say Gon's Rock dmg is 2000 which makes him a level 20 enhancer. It also costs 2000 AP so we'll say he is a level 20 enhancer with 100% efficiency. As for his Paper its dmg is 500 and it costs 4000 AP so Gon is a level 5 emitter with 12.5% efficiency. Now from this standpoint Gon should be able to work on 2 different ways to train his Paper, that would be either training the level to be higher (the dmg or attack power) or its efficiency to be higher. Now it obviously makes more sense to train the efficiency so he doesn't waste nen so lets say he trains for how ever long it takes to get his Paper to max efficiency which is 80%. Now it only costs 625 AP to do 500 dmg. Now Gon is a level 5 emitter with 80% (max) efficiency. At this point in Gon's training he can now train the level (or power) of this move to become stronger while keeping its efficiency (I have no idea how they would go about that, thats for Togashi to decide).
So lets say Gon has sucessfully trained his Paper to be a level 20 attack with 80% (max possible efficiency bcuz he is an enhancer). That means that the dmg of his Paper is 2000 but the cost of his attack is 2500. Now why is that? Thats bcuz the max efficiency for him as an emitter is 80% and 80% of 2500=2000 (the dmg or attack power). The way this is calculated is as follows; First the variables: L=dmg/overall power, C=AP consumed for hatsu/the "cost" for a hatsu, E=efficiency. The equations used are as follows: L/C=E or C*E=L or L/E=C.
What this theory means:
Now what I'm trying to say with this theory is that just because a nen user is in a different category as another nen user does not mean they can't use techniques in the others category stronger than them. Consider the examples below.
According to this theory it is possible for Gon to be able to use Paper and make it as strong as his Rock but in order for him to make his Paper as strong as Rock (i.e. give it 2000 dmg) he must use at least 2500 AP because his max efficiency is at 80% or more depending on how good/bad his efficiency is. Also since right now his paper is only worth 500 dmg while the cost is 4000 AP that shows that the less efficient u are with a technique the more aura it will cost you and it will begin to lose power. It may or may not be possible to train ur dmg for an attack to be higher unless u raise the efficiency first but for the purpose of this theory we will say it is. So if Gon only added more nen into it to increase its dmg without training for efficiency then at 2000 dmg it would cost a whopping 16000 AP to produce one Paper attack. This shows that it is far more effective to train your efficiency first before you work on attack power.
Now what I wanted to show with this example is that just because your efficiency is naturally lower than another user it doesn't mean your attack has to be weaker than theirs it just means it costs more AP to produce an even attack so its is less effiecient. Do you get what I'm saying? So if Gon fought another emitter that could use Paper at level 15 (1500 dmg) 100% efficiency he could overpower that other persons Paper even though they are naturally more efficient than him. This shows that it is really level or the power of your attacks/nen that really determine how strong you are and not your hatsu type. But remember that level or strength doesn't always doesn't mean an auto win unless you have efficiency. Otherwise you will just waste all of your nen before you can finish off your opponent or you won't be able to make strong enough attacks and will have an irregular or sporadic dmg:cost ratio like with Gon's Paper attack.
So according to this theory u can have a conjurer that can have a stronger emission attack than an emitter or a specialist who is better at enhancement than an enhancer. But it is not likely because it is harder to train in another category if you have low efficiency and level in another category and also it usually doesn't fit ones personality to use an opposite category. So its not likely that Kurapika will be able to use an emission attack better than and emitter unless he devotes his time into training in emission, which wouldn't really make sense to him because he wants to focus on his conjuring instead because it is his most efficient category. Even in Emperor time with 100% efficiency in emission it won't really matter unless he trains the level (dmg) to be higher to be used effectively in battle, but he wont because he doesn't want to. Now if somebody wants to be an emitter but is a conjurer instead they can still train in emission but it will only be capped at 40%. It will also be very had to train as an emitter because it is the opposite category. If the person successfully trains in emission and maxes out at 40% and there level is high enough and strong enough they may even be able to rival the most powerful emitters even tho they are a conjurer. It is extremely unlikely and Togashi probably wouldn't do it anyway but it is still possible under the rules of nen.
This would explain why the chimera ants were so powerful and were able to develop such strong hatsu in different categories. Its because their nen was so powerful and they learned to be efficient so quickly that they were able to become so strong in such and incredibly short period of time and create complex hatsu in different categories. Like how Pitou could use Doctor Blithe (which is enhancement, while Pitou is a specialist). Or how Netero was able to conjure (they say it is a conjured statue) the bodhisattva and make it so powerful even tho he was only at 60% efficiency. It was because they were at max efficiency and had such a high level of power and nen that they were able to use those techniques.
Also there should be no cap for nen except for how strong the author wants people to be and ko and the other basic and advanced techniques are not enhancement. Anybody in any category can use and excel in them. Enhancers use their nen to enhance either themselves or other things. So if Gon uses Rock he is really using nen to enhance his fist and make it stronger, which consequently produces more nen in his fist to make the attack even more stronger thats why his attack is so deadly and thats why enhancers are regarded as the strongest fighters in the nen world. Its because they use their nen to enhance their bodies to make them physically stronger which consequently produces more nen making them even more stronger. That still doesn't mean that they are the strongest people in the world. Remember since enhancement is a hatsu type anyone can use enhancement and if they reach peak efficiency and obtain a higher power level of nen they can become stronger than other enhancers although it is more likely that and enhancer will be stronger because that is their native category and have 100% efficiency.
Last edited by tupadre97; March 03, 2013 at 06:12 AM.
I know that's silly and that there not even one in a million chance that it would happen but what would happen if:
-Kurapika uses Chain Jail on an innocent and is convinced that he is a Spider?
-Kurapika uses randomly Chain Jail on a Spider without knowing he is one? (For example, would have CJ worked if he hadn't seen Uvo's tattoo?)
He would still die. This is the reason he didn't want the Spiders to know about it. They could easily use it against him.
Even in scenario 2?