Gravity Children, Original Regalia and Roads

[suarhnir]

oyos

so we can continue the discussion about the regalias and the grav kids without getting so off-topic in the chapter spoilers/discussion thread...

Anyway, was Nina really a Gravity Child?

@Suahnir: If each Road has three different variants and three different Regalia, then how come there were three Ring Road Riders, including Simca? They all must have had Pledge Regalia replicas, too . . . well, either way, I hope we get some answers on this soon because I'm confused.

And also consider this: if there were three of each Regalia, one being one of the main eight and the other two being those that branch off from it, then there were actually 24 Regalia, meaning that there would need to be 4 extras to cover for all of the 28 Fist Gen. Gravity Children. I just thought of this, but what if the four extras were actually Pledge Regalia copies? And Nike is one of those four extra Gravity Children, right? And we know he was originally a Wing Road Rider; we also saw in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback that he and Sora both had one half of Bagram each. Nike most likely gave Sora his half of Bagram before he stole the Gem Regalia core from Kilik.

Kanon referring to the Hurricane Road as the "genuine Ninth Path of the Regalia" also comes to mind; I'm still confused about this, in the wake of the 28 different Regalia thing. I guess, for the Hurricane Road to still be the genuine 9th Road, we have to think that it's the genuine 9th main Road. It just doesn't have two other Roads branching off from it (of course, it doesn't need to).

yes, nina is a grav kid of the 1st gen... there's speculation that she uses that suit to actually move around because she lost the use of her real legs. i can't remember if it was genuinely mentioned (have to go through the chapters again) but someone brought it up in one of the chapter discussions. **found it: there's no confirmation that nina can't walk, that line of her saying the old her that clung to ground in chapter 272 was actually supposed to be 'the old me, when i lived on the surface'... somehow, i think, someone interpreted the english translation as 'when i used to walk (with her own legs)'.

the cores that have the same branching road doesn't have to be an exact copy. they could be similar abilities with slightly different applications. a clear demonstration of this concept is falco/agito vs gabishi. you have the same fang but one is a slice while the other is a piercing strike. the regalia that the 1st gen grav kids could have been different in that same way, where you have the same base concept/road but the way it is used is different and therefore an actual different regalia that focuses more on that variation would have been made. another example is kanon/merlin vs kururu/ine; kururu and ine use the pledge regalia as a means of connecting to others to share abilities of tuning where as kanon and merlin have a very offensive application of sound; there could have been a regalia for the ring road that may have had a similar focus in offensive (we don't know for sure but the idea is possible since we have kanon and merlin to prove it). simca's regalia could have been a much different variation than what ine ended up using so simca wouldn't be lugging around a huge cross like the current pledge queen does.

it's not that the branching roads are only sub-class, but that they are focused in a certain aspect where the main road is a more 'pure/simple' version. the apollon road is a branch of the flame road with its focus more on speed to execute the time tricks where the flame road, in general, uses speed to create friction/flames. nike's regalia was probably a variation of the wind regalia, but not exactly bagram... which if it is true that in gazelle's flashback, that sora and nike shared their cores together (so both had two regalia but of just one wheel and on one a-t) it would make sense that even if both cores had a base in the wind road, that both semi activated forms looked different.

as for the ninth road, i was actually thinking that it is in essence the sky regalia. however, not like sky regalia that is the system control but a more practical use that everyone who doesn't really know what the sky regalia is would have believed it to be - the greatest a-t regalia of them all, one that is superior and/or inclusive of all roads.

[DragonOsman2]

The Storm Regalia is the 9th Regalia, but until it gets all eight Regalia combined into it (which I hope it doesn't), it's not an AT Sky Regalia.

And Kanon is a Tuner, same for Simca. The Ring Road is mainly a Tuners' Road. The dark-skinned girl Kanon fought is most likely also a Tuner, except that, like Kanon, she also found an offensive way to use sound. Simca is Genesis' Pledge Queen, and Rune is also a Ring Road. Simca, Rune, and that dark-skinned girl Kanon fought are Tuners, so they're on the Ring Road. And as for lugging around a giant cross, couldn't there have been a way to "fold" it up? That's wishful thinking on my part, but still.

And I know that branching "Sub-Roads" wouldn't have to have the same concept; that's why I was already thinking that Horn Regalia's Road is probably one of the two Roads that branch off from the Bloody Road. The Lather Road is probably a Sub-Road of the Flame Road, though it might actually be the second Sub-Road of the Bloody Road, I guess, since it uses air in a similar way that the Fangs do.

And Nike was called Sora's shadow, remember? Nike was also originally a Wing Road Rider; not a Rider on one of the Roads that branch off of the Wing Road, but the Wing Road itself, and I'm sure he and Sora had one half of Bagram each. Recall that Nike's Jade Road was Wing Road + Gaia Road. He was Sora's twin, and also his shadow, so like his brother, he, too, was able to catch the wind as a child. If his Road was one of the Sub-Roads, it'd have had a different name than "Wing Road".

As for the Apollon and Avalon Roads, I'd say they're actually part of the Flame Road, not Sub-Roads of it. Kazu used the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire" with the Flame Regalia, after all. If it were to have been a Sub-Road's Trick, it'd have its own Regalia, separate from the Flame Regalia. Oh and, don't forget that that Loli girl with the All-purpose Regalia Prototype, Folke Wulf, used the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire" as one of Spitfire's Tricks, too. Wouldn't that actually mean that if his tendons hadn't been injured during that battle between Kilik's and Sora's sides in the old Sleeping Forest back then, he wouldn't have needed Aeon's help in using that Trick and could have done it on his own? That's all the Flame Road itself, Spitfire using doing that stuff should be proof enough.

By the way, the version of my post you quoted is out-dated . . . I edited it a bunch of times after that and it's longer now as well. Here:

@Suahnir: If each Road has three different variants and three different Regalia, then how come there were three Ring Road Riders, including Simca? They all must have had Pledge Regalia replicas, too . . . well, either way, I hope we get some answers on this soon because I'm confused.

What are the chances that Minami will make another Storm Regalia using parts at his own lab, letting Ikki give back the cores that given to him (since Minami would make the Regalia the same way as Kururu, but without having to combine Regalia since he was the one who made all of the Regalia in the first place)? The Gem, Flame, Fang, and Rumble, and Thunder Regalia cores can rebuilt, but if Minami makes a Storm Regalia that is already a combination of those ones and the Wind Regalia core, allowing Ikki to give the originals (plus the Thunder core; Minami rebuilt another one already and that's the one Ikki's going to be using) back. I won't like it if Kazu and Agito don't get their cores, and I'm also not gong to like it if the Rumble King, Gem King, and Thunder King aren't chosen to fill in those empty seats.

By the way, have you guys noticed? I read some chapters again, and like Carnevil said, Kilik was being referred to as the Gem King still, even without the Gem Regalia. Even though Nike was the one with the Regalia, the rest of the AT world was actually still considering Kilik the Gem King. Simca was really the only one who called him the "ex-Gem King of the Jade Road".

Edit: About the 28 Regalia, I also have to add that if what you're saying is true, Suahnir, then Orca, Alexander, Shallot, and Arthur had different Roads from the ones they're using now. The Bloody Road was Falco's, the Flame Road was Spitfire's, and the Over Road was Dontores', and yet Genesis' Fang, Flame, and Rumble King are those guys (minus Shallot, the other Over Road Rider aside from Arthur the Rumble King). I really would like to know what their Roads were; hopefully, if it's true, the manga will talk about it soon.

And about Gabishi: As I said, his Road is very much like the Bloody Road, right down to the fact that he injures his opponent directly with his attacks--the only difference between the Bloody Road and Gabisihi's Road is that the former targets the whole body while the latter targets just the face. And the Infinity Atmosphere is also similar, though I guess if the Horn Regalia is one of those 20 Regalia that branch off form the main eight, it makes sense for its Infinity Atmosphere to be similar to that of the Fang since it's a Regalia that branches off from the Fang Regalia.

Mikan's Road, the Gale Road, is a Wing Road variant. But Mikan wasn't one of the First Generation, she's of the Second Generation, so her Regalia, if it has a core, can't be one of the 28. I think there's a higher chance of her Regalia being a core-less Wind Regalia, since she's Sleeping Forest's Fuujin (Wind God), as stated by Ume (Ume just doesn't say it out-loud).

As for Om, as previously stated on here, there's a possibility that her Lather Road is one that branches of from the Flame Road somehow, despite being of the opposite element. I think it's also possible that Om and Gabishi aren't using their cores, if they had them while in the Tower (in the case that the Regalia they're using turn out to be the ones they had while in the Tower).

And also consider this: if there were three of each Regalia, one being one of the main eight and the other two being those that branch off from it, then there were actually 24 Regalia, meaning that there would need to be 4 extras to cover for all of the 28 Fist Gen. Gravity Children. I just thought of this, but what if the four extras were actually Pledge Regalia copies? And Nike is one of those four extra Gravity Children, right? And we know he was originally a Wing Road Rider; we also saw in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback that he and Sora both had one half of Bagram each. Nike most likely gave Sora his half of Bagram before he stole the Gem Regalia core from Kilik.

Kanon referring to the Hurricane Road as the "genuine Ninth Path of the Regalia" also comes to mind; I'm still confused about this, in the wake of the 28 different Regalia thing. I guess, for the Hurricane Road to still be the genuine 9th Road, we have to think that it's the genuine 9th main Road. It just doesn't have two other Roads branching off from it (of course, it doesn't need to).

About the Hurricane Road, I really do hope it doesn't get any other Roads added in, though I do want to see how good Ikki would be at using Sonia Road Tricks. I can't help but keep hoping that if Ikki does keep all of the cores he was given, that those cores are all replicated. Kazu and Agito are both "King"s, so they should get working cores. Ikki will definitely keep the Rumble Regalia core, so that one definitely has to be replicated and given to the successor of the Over Road's emblem (whoever that's going to be). If Nue still stays stubborn about not using the Thunder Regalia core, they'll probably have to either choose a new Thunder King or give the new core to Blackburn (he didn't retire, exactly, so he might agree to become Thunder King again).

[suarhnir]

oyos

taking the roads and sub-roads aside, the regalia themselves could still be variations of the road types/application. i guess the best example is sleipnir, they were all wind riders but each of their a-t and particular use of the roads varied tremendously. basically what i'm saying is that the regalias will not be exact copies of any other as each will have a unique focus even if it follows the same road. its for that same reason you have people like onibasu and black burn who follow the same road but apparently onibasu doesn't use wires or nina and dontores - where nina has displayed a more optical application of the over road. the reason is simply because each person is different and therefore they'll do things differently, so having different variations of regalia would be logical

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, and I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that if there are Sub-Roads, and also "branch" Regalia for those Sub-Roads, that they'd each be called something different from what their "parents," if you could refer to them as that, would be called. Those Sub-Roads, while being based on the same principle as their "father" Roads, would still be different. And yeah, of course each Rider on the same Road can't really have the same "run" and/or style, since everyone has his/her own "run" style. I think the Trick Nina used in this chapter was something similar to Arthur's, though. Kazu was trained personally by Spitfire, so his "run" is similar to Spitfire's. Sora was the one who trained Ikki on how to ride the Wing Road, so Ikki's Wing Road Tricks are the same as Sora's.

But really, the Regalia of the main eight Roads that have different applications, aren't the originals. You do realize that, yes? The Regalia that were being used by the members of the old Sleeping Forest were the original Regalia of the of the main eight Roads, and there aren't any others that came from the Tower for those particular Roads. But there are still 16 other Sub-Roads, two each of which are based off of one of the main eight, if this whole theory about 28 Regalia, three being all Pledge Regalia and one being just half of Bagram, with the rest of the 24 all being different Regalia, is true.

Edit: By the way, Orca is the current Fang King, and he doesn't have a slashing Fang; he has an exploding Fang. The Regalia can't be different, though; there must be something Orca himself does that makes his Fang explode. As we were told, the way to produce a Fang is to store 0-100-0 energy by running full speed and then immediately stopping before shooting the Fang; the Fang Regalia's main components are also built for that, since they help the Rider to immediately stop right after having gone full speed. Orca also seemed to run before releasing his Fang. So yeah, he probably does something different on his own to make his explode, since, without those parts that help in braking right after having gone full speed, a Regalia can't be called the Fang Regalia. So Orca's Fang Regalia can't be that different . . . unless of course it has additional parts in it that make the Fang explode upon contact with the target instead of slashing at the target.

[suarhnir]

But really, the Regalia of the main eight Roads that have different applications, aren't the originals. You do realize that, yes? The Regalia that were being used by the members of the old Sleeping Forest were the original Regalia of the of the main eight Roads, and there aren't any others that came from the Tower for those particular Roads. But there are still 16 other Sub-Roads, two each of which are based off of one of the main eight, if this whole theory about 28 Regalia, three being all Pledge Regalia and one being just half of Bagram, with the rest of the 24 all being different Regalia, is true.

oyos

calling the other regalia 'not' originals is like going into a library, picking a random genre/section and calling all books and stories that came after one in particular as a replica. the other regalias are not replicas and not really 'not' of the originals. everyone outside of sf back then made their own story of about the 8 'kings' and 'roads'. even the grav kids themselves didn't regard their 'regalias' as regalias or proof of being a king or to being called a 'king' until after everyone else did... its what everyone else made up.

the 8 kings and regalia are not really a true original in that all the other recently introduced roads and regalia of the other grav kids in the 1st gen are replicas or of sub-level. the 'original' 8 kings and regalia, are more accurately the 1st publicly known gathered team which coincidently had a person from each main road with a few extra ring road riders forming ttt. the other grav kids and their regalia, if they kept them, kept out of the spotlight and so no one knew there were others and could even try to speculate that there were more than just the 8.

(break is over - gotta get back to work)

[DragonOsman2]

I know all that. But the Second Generation of Gravity Children weren't given ATs that later came to be known as Regalia, were they? That was just the First Generation, those 28 Gravity Children, of which, 8 had the main "Regalia" while the 16 others (who weren't Nike or Ring Road Riders), had ones that branched off of the main eight. The Takeuchi Brothers both shared one half of Bagram each, until Sora took the other half from Nike and formed Sleeping Forest, while Nike himself started to spend most of his time in the US. Then Nike came back and fought Kilik after he'd fought the other members of Sleeping Forest and was exhausted, and took the Gem Regalia core from him.

There were 28 Gravity Children, but 27 and a half Regalia, 3 of which were most likely Pledge Regalia replicas. I'm only saying that if there are main eight "Regalia" and main eight "Roads," then there also 16 other separate ones that branch of them, that have concepts that are similar to their "fathers," but are still different in a way, like the Horn Regalia and the Fang Regalia (if the Horn Regalia is one of those 16). Also, Dr. Minami did say that Sora "ate" the other First Gen. Gravity Children who didn't come back to using ATs (most likely meaning he and Nike killed them all). He probably has their Regalia stashed away somewhere, too.

And by "originals," I only mean the ones that the 28 First Gen. Gravity Children had while they were in the Tower.

[suarhnir]

oyos

by the time that the second generation of gravity children were being made, they had shifted to having some financial backing with a rogue u.s. military faction. the leader, big willie or whatever his name was, had no interest in the regalia a-ts, he was interested in more military applicable technology like the exo-suits and grav kid soldiers. also, from minami's pov, it would be pointless to make another regalia if the new grav kids don't have what it takes to rise up to the needed level to truly utilize it (especially since they instated the 'failures are disposed of' rule), not to mention the desire to even do a-ts actively (given that majority of the previous grav kids were eager to leave the a-t stuff behind after escaping; wouldn't want a repeat of grav kids running off with crucial technology now).

here's something else i just remembered, back in the flashback when we actually see the 1st gen grav kids make their escape, we really only see a handful of them scaling the walls of the tower (looking at that chapter, i can easily make out 9 figures) but o!g may have failed in consistency if he is now saying that more than 9 escaped the tower. however, if more than 9 but less than 28 grav kids escaped: what if in general testing, sora had 'accidently' killed off some fellow grav kids? naturally the researchers would collect the regalia from the grav kid and either trash the regalia thinking that it was useless if even a grav kid couldn't make it useful enough, or re-design/combine the core. that would certainly bring down the number of regalia from the 1st gen down a bit.

you support the idea that only one core was shared between sora and nike, but i view it as they each had their own core and at least to the point of chasing gazelle, they each shared theirs so each had two cores which happened to also be put on one a-t shoe. sometime after that, if nike didn't lose his or get it destroyed, they could have had minami combine the two cores (both based on wind road) to create bagram. it would semi fit in with the flashback that sora told in which a guy gave him the regalia and wrote 'welcome to nightmare' on the wheels (which is how it was when reuniting with kiric to form sf). it also fits with the lack of regalia that nike had until claiming the gem regalia despite clearly having one years earlier when going after gazelle, along with how the activated look of the regalia when sora and nike did their combo compared to what it had looked like during sora's use of bagram now and 6 years ago. this could possibly be the result of pledge regalia that we know of now too; rune and simca gave theirs to ine who combined the cores to make the pledge regalia cross... its not like the core is only wheels, the thunder regalia core is by no means a wheel.

as for which road was the true main road and which is the sub, there's genuinely no way to know that unless minami decides to spell it out for us. for all we know, all the kings we do know of are actually sub roads but since the first formation of sf, people ended up assuming that their roads were the main ones. its really in the air (o!g likely didn't think that through very well). though i do remember a discussion before that we had first believed the sub roads to be fusion roads, like orca and whatever bloody-like road & nike and the jade road. i don't remember when that discussion was first brought up but it was one of the ideas tossed around for what the sub roads really were.

tangenting off of nike, the whole 'shadow' thing was actually to be taken as 'partner that acted on behalf of sora but did so discreetly'. not quite the same as the shadow aka avatar representing the king and road. it could also mean that he was the 'inferior' one between him and sora.

[DragonOsman2]

I understand that Nike being Sora's "shadow" means that he was the "inferior" one. I had no intention of even implying the Road "shadow" thing.

As for the Sub-Roads vs. Main Road, Sora and the other Gravity Children obviously knew which ones were the main ones, so of course they wouldn't exactly make the "Kings" that were of the Sub-Roads get into forming Sleeping Forest. Any Gravity Child can use any of the Regalia, as well, so if any Regalia other than the eight that were being used by the members of old Sleeping Forest were to have been the main one(s), then Spitfire and the others would've used those Regalia instead.

Gazelle was Dr. Minami masterpiece at that time and she was the first Thorn Queen. So we at least know for sure, even going by your fears, that the Sonia Road is definitely one of the eight main Roads.

But anyway, I do hope we get to find out more about the whole main Road and Sub-Road thing (if it really is true; part of me still believes that there could have been Eight different Regalia, with the rest of them being just replicas of the Eight).

[bbms]

I think it was said at the manga that time that just the orirginal Sleeping Forest wanted to ride air trecks, most of them run away from the country and something like that.

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, I remember that, too, actually. It was stated by Kilik that since most of the First Gen. Gravity Children didn't even want to remember the time spent in "the bottom of a well," which was what the "Tower" felt like to them, they never went back to using ATs again after leaving the "Tower". But I'm thinking that the ones who didn't go back to using ATs were the ones who were later killed by Sora. He must also have taken their ATs (or in other words, their Regalia). The "Pyon" girl, and Vercingetorx (aka Orca) are part of the First Generation, though, I think. The successful ones. Alexander was probably one as well, though right now he's a Flame Road Rider, even though the Flame Road was Spitfire's while they were in the "Tower". Alexander must have had one of the Sub-Roads.

By the way, Suahnir, about the Rising Road, I think there's a chance that Onibasu is using those bandages in place of wires. Those bandages are probably made of material that can be used as a good conductor, and like the wires used by Nue and Blackburn, can also be bent and coiled.

Do recall, as well, that we've seen with Blackburn's and Nue's use of the Rising Road that wires or anything else to direct the electricity isn't required when using Alpha Brain-waves to cause hallucinations, which is what Onibasu was doing when he was pretending to be Kilic, and also making everyone think that the rest of Sleeping Forest was already defeated, while in reality they were all hiding through the use of an Over Road Trick, courtesy of Nina.

[suarhnir]

As for the Sub-Roads vs. Main Road, Sora and the other Gravity Children obviously knew which ones were the main ones, so of course they wouldn't exactly make the "Kings" that were of the Sub-Roads get into forming Sleeping Forest. Any Gravity Child can use any of the Regalia, as well, so if any Regalia other than the eight that were being used by the members of old Sleeping Forest were to have been the main one(s), then Spitfire and the others would've used those Regalia instead.

oyos

the grav kids and minami may know which is the true main road and which is the sub road, but most of the roads have not been explained enough for us to know which is which. honestly, i don't recall anywhere in the manga where they state that one road is the main and another a sub-road (we only have that diagram with branching roads, but there's no written chart saying which one is which). the only thing that has been mentioned was sub-regalias which are what you can actually call a real replica since a replica is more often than not, an inferior version of the original - due to the lack of the original core.

going back to the forming of sf, there was no guarantee and completely up to chance as to who they would get to join them. the grav kids never wanted to go back even to the tower because it was the relic of their past that they wanted to leave behind. it was luck that they managed to get a representation of the different roads (with extra tuners) and technically they didn't even have a sonia road rider... sora had to orchestrate rika's rise to thorn queen and then got her to join the team by appealing to her in a more friendly-then-intimate way. if there was a road that wasn't represented, sora may have tried to do something similar or at least made a greater effort in recruiting their fellow grav kids to make sure each road type had a rider.

a rather extreme example but would definitely fit in this situation: if you took one whole platoon of soldiers that went to vietnam from the u.s., and that group had equal representation of different ethnicities, and then asked them to go back again to fight in vietnam - how successful would you be in getting people to volunteer to do so? on top of that, what are the chances that you'll have at least one of each ethnicity represented? in reality: very slim. the grav kids wanted to live normal lives and so only a couple came back at all (and the ones who did were the 'failures'; a common trait of people who have been labeled as 'failures' that are given a chance to make a difference, will be more inclined to join even if they do hate it - if for anything, to prove themselves to be worth something, however little it may be). sf (at least with kiric) wasn't going to reject a grav kid that came back to help if they happened to be the same road as another... it was a team formed to guard the sky regalia (as they were initially told when asked to join) and there would be no point in declining man power over an issue of what road they ride.

i imagine that kiric had pleaded with om, gabi, nina and onibasu into helping him when he made a stand against sora and the rest of sf, probably using the reports and evidence compiled by kaito as more reason for them to help. obviously we have one uncommon road among them (om's lather road, still not sure which one this could fall under), and we still have no flame road rider among current sf either. each grav kid left the tower with their regalia, and those who came back to join 1st sf still had theirs (though simca and rune's is up to debate) - it wasn't like they left the regalia in the tower and just picked them up again. so again, it was chance that they had each road represented and regalia to go with it.

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, I guess I forgot about the Gravity Children taking their Regalia with them while leaving the Tower.

But still, the fact that Gazelle, a Gravity Child Dr. Minami considered his masterpiece from that time, was the one in possession of the Thorn Regalia before it was given to Rika. I really don't think Dr. Minami would give a Sub-Road's Regalia to a masterpiece creation of his.

And there are the Wing Road and Flame Road; of the former, we know that it's the most important one, since all of the Roads rely on the air and the Wing Road uses the air directly to produce and manipulate the wind, and we also know that it's the one closest to the sky; then, in the Flame Road, the "Flames" are the "template" of each Road's "run". The special ability of the Flame Regalia is also a pretty important concept to think about in this--I seriously doubt that a Sub-Road's Regalia would have such an ability.

Now, the remaining ones in question, I guess you could say, are the Rising Road, Over Road, Gaia Road, and Bloody Road, since the Ring Road shouldn't really be in question seeing as there were three Gravity Children of the First Generation on the Ring Road. There aren't any Sub-Roads in that particular category. That is, of course, if I'm right about there being 24 different Regalia, if which 3 were copies of the same one and 1 was actually split between two people (Pledge Regalia and Wind Regalia, respectively). There were 28 Gravity Children amongst the First Generation, originally.

As for the Lather Road, there is still the possibility that it's a Sub-Road of the Flame Road. Om was one of the First Generation Gravity Children, though I guess we need to first wait to find out if she's still using the same Regalia that she had while in the "Tower" before we say anything on this for sure. She could be using a different Regalia than the one she had while in the "Tower" for all we know, and it could also be a Regalia without a core. It could also be that the Water Regalia is one of those 24 that came from the "Tower," and if it is, then Om may or may not be using its core.

I also have something more to say about Mikan's Gale Road. Look at what Kilik is saying in this page: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/15.html--he calls Mikan a Wing Road Rider, doesn't he? I don't know about you, but to me, this means that the Gale Road is just an altered Wing Road. Its Regalia should therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia. And most likely, it is. If Mikan's Road were to be a Sub-Road of the Wing Road, then Kilik wouldn't have called her a Wing Road Rider. And, since that page saying "Wind Rider" would probably leave a bit of doubt, I've also got this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/16.html; it says that in the Wing Road, you have to manipulate the wind yourself in order to use it, or something along those lines. The fact that the Gale Road works very much like the Wing Road, just being more on the aggressive side, to me, means that it's nothing more than an altered Wing Road, and that its Regalia would therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia in current Sleeping Forest, not a Sub-Road and Regalia of the Wing Road.

Now, I've said this before, but still . . . in case anyone's wondering why the failures, which were what everyone besides Kilik and Gazelle were, out of the Gravity Children in old Sleeping Forest got the main Roads' Regalia . . . weren't the Gravity Children given their ATs from the get-go, probably, as part of the experiments? They couldn't have known already, when they gave them the Regalia, that they'd be failures.

Edit: Look at this pic: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v31/c297/11.html; That's all of Bagram; look closely. Isn't it split between Nike's and Sora's ATs? Before the formation of Sleeping Forest, neither of those two had the complete Bagram, they each only had half.

[suarhnir]

But still, the fact that Gazelle, a Gravity Child Dr. Minami considered his masterpiece from that time, was the one in possession of the Thorn Regalia before it was given to Rika. I really don't think Dr. Minami would give a Sub-Road's Regalia to a masterpiece creation of his.

Now, the remaining ones in question, I guess you could say, are the Rising Road, Over Road, Gaia Road, and Bloody Road, since the Ring Road shouldn't really be in question seeing as there were three Gravity Children of the First Generation on the Ring Road. There aren't any Sub-Roads in that particular category. That is, of course, if I'm right about there being 24 different Regalia, if which 3 were copies of the same one and 1 was actually split between two people (Pledge Regalia and Wind Regalia, respectively). There were 28 Gravity Children amongst the First Generation, originally.

I also have something more to say about Mikan's Gale Road. Look at what Kilik is saying in this page: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/15.html--he calls Mikan a Wing Road Rider, doesn't he? I don't know about you, but to me, this means that the Gale Road is just an altered Wing Road. Its Regalia should therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia. And most likely, it is. If Mikan's Road were to be a Sub-Road of the Wing Road, then Kilik wouldn't have called her a Wing Road Rider. And, since that page saying "Wind Rider" would probably leave a bit of doubt, I've also got this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/16.html; it says that in the Wing Road, you have to manipulate the wind yourself in order to use it, or something along those lines. The fact that the Gale Road works very much like the Wing Road, just being more on the aggressive side, to me, means that it's nothing more than an altered Wing Road, and that its Regalia would therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia in current Sleeping Forest, not a Sub-Road and Regalia of the Wing Road.

Now, I've said this before, but still . . . in case anyone's wondering why the failures, which were what everyone besides Kilik and Gazelle were, out of the Gravity Children in old Sleeping Forest got the main Roads' Regalia . . . weren't the Gravity Children given their ATs from the get-go, probably, as part of the experiments? They couldn't have known already, when they gave them the Regalia, that they'd be failures.

oyos

a good point on gazelle, but what if there was really only one sonia road rider among the first generation? it was very obvious with sora going after gazelle because she was a brain charger and because of the regalia but he was not bothered by the fact that she killed herself simply because the 'brain charger' could be done to anyone (as they knew of rika being a back-up). so assuming that they were slightly more interested in claiming the regalia, could it be possible that the thorn regalia was the only one of its road among the first gen? i mean, if they did get the other grav kids and one of them had a thorn regalia or variant of the thorn regalia, wouldn't it not be such a big deal that they don't have the gazelle's regalia? in the aftermath of the split between sf, rika had her regalia stolen (by whom we now know was sora/nike and minami). that's a lot of effort in trying to keep the regalia if there's replicas or variants for it, so i can only imagine that it is the only one of its road.

the part with mikan and being called a wind rider isn't that much in my books. technically, sora rides the 'wing' road (as it was initially called) and mikan rides the gale road, but both are part of the wind based road set. saying 'wing' makes it sound more like its a means of travelling and when sora first explained the concept of grasping the wind, he described that it would enable ikki to use all the possible paths available due to currents and air density/temperature. gale definitely has a more aggressive meaning and with mikan's personality, it fits very well. going on that, we do have three road types that have different roads actually named so far.

flame king: flame, apollon
wind king: wing, gale
gem king: gaia, jade

flame should be an instant give in on which is the main road, along with the ring road possibly (at least, we haven't heard of kanon calling his particular use of sound tricks as a different road), maybe the gaia road and finally the sonia road if it turns out that there was only one regalia made. the rest are still iffy in my opinion due to the lack of any substantial evidence of seeing any other roads of the same type being shown so far. oh by the way, there were only 2 confirmed grav kids in the 1st gen that were ring road riders... ine was not a grav kid; she was a genius and daughter of one of the key researchers for a-t and grav kids.

if grav kids and a-t technology started at the same time, then it's possible that the very first set of a-ts they received were not quite regalia quality. unless they were really skilled and managed to fine tune the kinks before the kids were old enough to use them (which i doubt because i don't think there was a athletically skilled enough person on the research team to really utilize and test out the a-ts in a way that the grav kids could have). so as they test more and improve the a-ts, they eventually got to the point of making the regalias, and so there was some consideration as to who got what regalia but i think that reasoning was based merely on the particular way the used their road type more than who was a failure and who wasn't (kiric was shown to be rather young when standing up for his fellow grav kids from being disposed if a failure, so if they stopped worrying about that then they'd take other things into consideration). of course that is going with the notion that majority of the regalias were not replicas in anyway (each regalia unique in its functions though some sharing the same 'base' with one or two others). it also leaves it open that the old sf members may have ended up with a main road regalia but its not certain with what has been explained by o!g. if any of the old sf members had a main road, then for sure, we have ring, flame, gaia and sonia roads along with each respective regalia.

[DragonOsman2]

On the Sonia Road, it probably did have Sub-Roads; didn't you say before that you counted 24 different Regalia in that diagram? The Sonia Road should have two Sub-Roads then, with the Ring Road being repeated three times. And by the way, FYI, I never said that Ine was a Gravity Child. I was saying that the three Gravity Children on the Ring Road, from the First Generation, were most likely Simca, Rune, and that dark-skinned girl that Kanon fought on the aircraft carrier--I never even once said that Ine was a Gravity Child. We all know Ine's a normal human.

And each Regalia was only one of its kind in the "Tower," except for those of the Wing and Ring Roads (the Sub-Roads have the concept as their "parent" Roads, but they're still separate Roads in a way); for the former, there were only Sora and Nike, and we know that's a special case, and for the latter, there are three Riders since it has no Sub-Roads (if I'm right).

And about the Flame Road and the Apollon Road, like I said before, the Apollon Road isn't a variant, nor is it a Sub-Road--it's a technique that is part of the Flame Road. The Trick St. Elmo's Crossfire was used on Nue by that Loli-girl from Aeon's mansion's battle-maid group as one of Spitfire's Tricks. The only reason, most likely, that Spitfire needed Aeon's help in using that Trick against Nike, was because he'd gotten his tendons torn in the battle between the old Sleeping Forest and Kilik (I remember Sora or Nike saying something like that). So yeah, Avalon Road and Apollon Road, as well as "Time," and the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire," are all part of the Flame Road itself, and if Spitfire wasn't injured in his legs, he could've used the "St. Elmo's Crossfire" Trick by himself against Nike. Didn't we see him manipulating "Time," as well? And we've also seen Kazu doing it. In his video file that he trained Kazu through, Spitfire did also say himself that "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road. Did you forget?

As for the Gem King's Road, it's really just the Gaia Road; recall that the Jade Road is a combination between two Roads: Wing and Gaia.

And the Wing Road does have destructive attacks, doesn't it? Pile Tornado and the Trick "Moonstruck Numberless Grappler" come to mind. It's not just a means of traveling, it's just called the Wing Road because, since it's the one closest the sky, it's made for allowing its Rider to truly fly. Also look at the Sleipnir members' use of the Wing Road, especially Loki and Freya. It's a bit more similar to Sora's and Ikki's use of the Wing Road than the rest of Sleipnir.

[suarhnir]

On the Sonia Road, it probably did have Sub-Roads; didn't you say before that you counted 24 different Regalia in that diagram? The Sonia Road should have two Sub-Roads then, with the Ring Road being repeated three times. And by the way, FYI, I never said that Ine was a Gravity Child. I was saying that the three Gravity Children on the Ring Road, from the First Generation, were most likely Simca, Rune, and that dark-skinned girl that Kanon fought on the aircraft carrier--I never even once said that Ine was a Gravity Child. We all know Ine's a normal human.

oyos

i only mentioned that because you said this:

Now, the remaining ones in question, I guess you could say, are the Rising Road, Over Road, Gaia Road, and Bloody Road, since the Ring Road shouldn't really be in question seeing as there were three Gravity Children of the First Generation on the Ring Road.

And about the Flame Road and the Apollon Road, like I said before, the Apollon Road isn't a variant, nor is a Sub-Road--it's a technique that is part of the Flame Road. The Trick St. Elmo's Crossfire is used by that Loli-girl from Aeon's mansion's battle-maid group as one of Spitfire's Tricks.

there's no point of actually calling it a different road name then... it's the same with the hurricane road and gale road... you have ikki (and probably mikan) using the same tricks as sora because they are part of the same type of road but again it is a different application.

As for the Gem King's Road, it's really just the Gaia Road; recall that the Jade Road is a combination between two Roads: Wing and Gaia.

i'm aware that it is a fusion road but it still has a connection to the gaia road... it's an unusual branch road because it's pulling from another one. basically, you have a new road that branched into another one. (at this point we've broken the mold of the 24 roads diagram)

And the Wing Road does have destructive attacks, doesn't it? Pile Tornado and the Trick "Moonstruck Numberless Grappler" come to mind. It's not just a means of traveling, it's just called the Wing Road because, since it's the one closest the sky, it's made for allowing its Rider to truly fly. Also look at the Sleipnir members' use of the Wing Road, especially Loki and Freya. It's a bit more similar to Sora's and Ikki's use of the Wing Road than the rest of Sleipnir.

technically they were only regarded as wind kings. neither am i saying that wing is only for 'travelling'. what i'm saying is that 'wing' is not wind like flame and so we can't instantly assume that the wing road is the main one and gale is not. plus, i was more trying to point out that regardless the road, between the roads there is a single title which is centered, in my opinion, the road types like wind, flame, etc.