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View Poll Results: Which of the ability is more haxxed?

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  • Book of the End

    5 23.81%
  • Kanzen Saimin

    15 71.43%
  • A draw

    1 4.76%
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Thread: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

  1. #16
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Tsukishima's ability isn't as good as many people believe. Sure it's good, but he doesn't actually change completely people's memory. He just adds himself in their memory by making them think that he is very important to them, but any person with more than average sense can counter his ability by thinking a little. If Chad and Orihime managed to understand that something is going wrong, than surely such people as Mayuri, Byakuya, Yama, Unohana and Shunsui will easily get over it. And also he needs to stab people to activate his ability, but no Captain will let him to do it freely. Aizen's Shikai has actually way more chances to be activated. Noone is that suspicious when he is asked to look at the sword, but deffinetly will be, when someone will try to stab or slice them.

  2. #17
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Chad and Orihime suffered memory overload and almost went insane which would still count as a win. lol If there's a way to shrug off the effects of "book of the end", then you're right, Tsukishima's ability isn't that dangerous but the manga hasn't showed such a resistance so far. It's not entirely impossible though.

    Stabbing someone in the back isn't that hard if you're pretending to be a friend. And once you're stabbed, you won't have any hard feelings for Tsukishima, you'll be his friend. IMHO Aizen could have converted all the captains one by one using Tsukishima's ability. Perhaps attacking Yamamoto would be a bit risky but if you have all other captains on your side, it can be done.

  3. #18
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    I would say that even if you are a frined or relative Byakuya and Yama will slice you if their duty and pride tells them to do so and Tsuki can't change this part of their character. Also Zaraki will slice and chop even a friend, when he wants to fight him. So at least three person will most probably not get under Tsuki's control. But manga can prove me wrong if Kubo shows Byakuya being sliced and getting under Tsuki's control.

  4. #19
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Perhaps today's chapter will change the scope of this discussion. lol Yamamoto attacked Shunsui and Ukitake because he thought they had committed a crime, it makes sense that if Tsukishima forces him to rebel against the Spirit King, he may refuse to do so but Yamamoto also broke the rules and helped Ichigo regain his powers because SS was indebted to him, I wonder what lengths he would go to pay a huge debt to Tsukishima. Is Yamamoto's loyalty to Spirit King absolute, would Yamamoto still follow Spirit King's orders if Spirit King, just for fun, ordered him to execute a person who saved all people in SS and KT? Can Tsukishima create such a memory?

    Chad and Orihime are Ichigo's best friends, we would think they wouldn't help Ichigo's enemy, no matter what, but they actively participated in a war against Ichigo. If Chad and Orihime can betray Ichigo, it seems to me that everything is possible. Think about it, what would you do for a person whom you owe everything you have, whom you adore? Orihime may be in love with Ichigo, if Tsukishima's ability can overcome such a strong feeling, do other people stand a chance to resist its influence?

    Of course, this is my interpretation of Tsukishima's power. The manga can tell us that it can be overpowered by strong willpower, which will limit its usability to great extent. Perhaps Byakuya will still attack Tsukishima despite being cut, we will see.

  5. #20
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Tsukishima's ability isn't as good as many people believe. Sure it's good, but he doesn't actually change completely people's memory. He just adds himself in their memory by making them think that he is very important to them, but any person with more than average sense can counter his ability by thinking a little. If Chad and Orihime managed to understand that something is going wrong, than surely such people as Mayuri, Byakuya, Yama, Unohana and Shunsui will easily get over it. And also he needs to stab people to activate his ability, but no Captain will let him to do it freely. Aizen's Shikai has actually way more chances to be activated. Noone is that suspicious when he is asked to look at the sword, but deffinetly will be, when someone will try to stab or slice them.
    I think the issue here is the overlapping feelings. As we saw with orihime, she genuinely loved tsukishima, she thought the world of him. Book of the end recreates memories with tsukishima in them but it does not succeed in erasing the feelings from what memories were before. Chad and orihime had a mental breakdown because the feelings they had for ichigo were in deep contrast to the feelings they had for tsukishima. Perhaps older more experienced people won't have a breakdown because of this however the clash between the new and old feelings is bound to cause trouble too.

    I think there would be other considerations to make if it comes to a battle as it was described. As I said before, aizen was more than capable of mind raping someone without any sort of ability. In that regard, having book of the end + aizen is a far more brutal combination than having book of the end + tsukishima.

    There is another issue here. Book of the end can make the user appears as anything to the target. The issue however is that it does not change the view the target has of other people. In that regard even if you brainwash someone you won't be able to make that person forget who were his friends and enemies. In the context of this battle, you could get the captains to fight each other however they will not forget they are friends. In that particular regard you have the brainwashed guys fighting to protect "aizen" while the non brainwashed guys trying to protect "the world". The brainwashed guys killing other captains is unlikely however the non brainwashed guys killing the brainwashed guys equals protecting the world meaning they will do it.

    Now, if they know of the abilities then neither sword is exceptionally useful. If aizen can stab you with book of the end then he can by all intents and purposes kill you. In that regard book of the end is not very practical. The situation with KS is a bit murky. What if aizen says he is going to release and when everyone looks away from the sword he shots a kido at them? Aizen never needed to do it in battle however I don't think releasing KS and trapping a few people while in battle will be outright impossible.

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  7. #21
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Now, if they know of the abilities then neither sword is exceptionally useful. If aizen can stab you with book of the end then he can by all intents and purposes kill you. In that regard book of the end is not very practical. The situation with KS is a bit murky. What if aizen says he is going to release and when everyone looks away from the sword he shots a kido at them? Aizen never needed to do it in battle however I don't think releasing KS and trapping a few people while in battle will be outright impossible.
    Aizen can stab and kill anyone (whose name isn't Yamamoto or Kenpachi) but BOE has the inherent advantage that it makes you a friend (who fights on your side), which is much better than killing. Tsukishima cut Senbonzakura's petals to learn everything about Byakuya's zanpakuto and created a wall behind Byakuya, BOE seems to be very useful even against captain-class shinigami who know they shouldn't get cut by BOE. I'm not quite sure how BOE works though, I guess we have to wait till the end of Tsukishima vs Byakuya fight.

    Aizen didn't trap Isshin in their fight which makes me think doing it in battle against someone who knows you is not that easy. There's also Unohana's speech warning Ichigo not to get caught under hypnosis which kinda implies defending yourself against KS isn't impossible. Would Tsukishima do any better against Byakuya if he had KS instead? I doubt it. But it seems that the manga is about to reveal a potential weakness of BOE which will reduce its worth in haxness scale.

  8. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member daman246's Avatar
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    BOE already has 2 weakness
    1. If he reads your moves u can just create a new one on the spot since tsukishima is not wha tu call strong or fast without knowing his opponent every move its the exact opposite of aizen which had KS and He was godly in strengh,speed,kido Etc
    2. if u fight without any kind of move sets like Kenpachi,Hollow ichigo or Berserk from Kenichi this move would not work because they have no route in there moves just swinging to destroy etc there moves change everytime For example Hollow ichigo and kenpachi so even if tsukishima decides to learn everything about them he wont have an advantage since there moves change every time unlike Bykuya who uses a style,Toushiro,IChigo, etc
    Last edited by daman246; October 20, 2011 at 12:36 PM.

  9. #23
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Well Tsukishima is limited to the fact that he's a human (his mortality and durability, far less durable) when compared to Aizen, who is shinigami and also had hundreds of years of experience plus the Hogyoku.

    The first point is kinda a sick fact, though its kinda right...its true that if you are sharp you might can come up with a new move or whatever but on the spot might be an issue. I can't imagine that for everyone thinking up a radically new move can be so easy...though I figure people like the shinigami , should, through hundreds (decades for the younger ones like Hitsugaya) of years of experience instinctively fight an opponent, rather than set moves. Kenpachi is a great example of this. Personally I don't see this as a big, big weakness...since its somewhat iffy. You could die before you get the chance to strike up a new move or fighting solely on instinct might not be your strong point or even if you do come up with a new move a situation might not present itself for said move to be executed.

  10. #24
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Quote Quote:
    Tsukishima's ability isn't as good as many people believe. Sure it's good, but he doesn't actually change completely people's memory. He just adds himself in their memory by making them think that he is very important to them, but any person with more than average sense can counter his ability by thinking a little.
    The circumstances one would know something is up are very slim (you have to be remembering the most important person in your life and Tsukishima had to have picked that one person) and even then, you don't snap out of it's abilities. You go insane.

    Quote Quote:
    tsukishima is not wha tu call strong or fast
    He is very fast.

  11. #25
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    White Silver King
    Quote Quote:
    The circumstances one would know something is up are very slim (you have to be remembering the most important person in your life and Tsukishima had to have picked that one person) and even then, you don't snap out of it's abilities. You go insane.
    It also depends on the person whether he believes or not in the info Ginjou inserted. Up till now we saw him only changing the past of quite dumb persons and humans. Do you believe that someone like Aizen, Urahara, Yama, Tessai or Shunsui will not understand that what he had done was some nonsense?

    Quote Quote:
    He is very fast.
    He is very fast for a nameless human, but not for average Captain or Espada.

  12. #26
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    The fastest Espada didn't (couldn't) cut Byakuya, Tsukishima did....give the man some credit geez -___-

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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    He wasn't the fastest Espada. He was all talk. It was quite proved that the fastest was Starrk and then those like Harribel and Ulquiorra.

  15. #28
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    He did things no other Espada did (Gemelos Sonído)...I'd accept Stark comes the closes, most people still can't get over when Stark grabbed Orihime from Kenpachi and Ichigo lol

    Harribel and Ulq are laughable. What did Harribel do to prove her speed? She fought Hits, since when is Hitsugaya a speed demon?...and Ulq is fast but I doubt he's faster Zommari. Though I figure the chain of thought is an extrapolation from the Byakuya vs Ichigo fight, since bankai Ichigo appeared faster than Byakuya...and Byakuya's speed was greater (or rather great enough) to beat Zommari, then Ulq by extension should be faster than Zommari.

    That's messed up because Byakuya vs Ichigo fight didn't factor in cicada. Among other things.

  16. #29
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    cracker
    It's the same as with Shinigami. His Sonido might be the best, but as we know physical capacities also count. The same Ulquiorra stated that he was far from the top 3 Espada. So yes, Harribel was fast.
    The same Yoruichi is the best Shunpo user among Shinigami so far, but still Ichigo and Yama are faster. Aizen is also faster. They are just faster, even though their actual Shunpo might not be as good as Yoruichi's. That's my point.

  17. #30
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    Re: Book of the End vs. Kanzen Saimin - which is more HaXXeD

    Quote Quote:
    It's the same as with Shinigami. His Sonido might be the best, but as we know physical capacities also count. The same Ulquiorra stated that he was far from the top 3 Espada. So yes, Harribel was fast.
    The same Yoruichi is the best Shunpo user among Shinigami so far, but still Ichigo and Yama are faster. Aizen is also faster. They are just faster, even though their actual Shunpo might not be as good as Yoruichi's. That's my point.
    @ Jorge D. Dragon

    Firstly I don't agree that Ichigo is faster than Yourichi, not bankai Ichigo (before Dangai) nor Vaizard masked bankai Ichigo. Its possible Yama is faster though and even if he isn't no one possesses speed that would be a problem, barring perhaps Transcended Post Dangai Ichigo and Transcended Aizen (Aizen is iffy though).

    Technically all the Espada were fast, they all use Sonido...big whoop, all the Captains are fast too, even Mayuri...remember how he embarrassed Ishida before the massive power-up? Harribel was fast, yeah but she was no speed demon, otherwise continually blitzing Hitsugaya should not have been a problem. Aizen is fast but most of his speed gets distorted because he uses illusions a lot as cover-up.

    The thing is a lot of times in mangas/animes/comics w/e people get movement speed mixed up with reflexes and reaction speed, being able to react to a character that is faster than you doesn't mean you and them are same speed (hence faster lol). Look at DBZ for example, Goku instant transmission allowed him to instantly travel from one spot to next, I mean instantly...from here (Earth) to Pluto as fast as he could visualize it. Yet there are times, numerous, when his enemies could still react to him.

    The point is Tsukishima cut Byakuya, when the fastest Sonido using Espada could not...thats quite a feat for a FBer. It happened, get over it...
    Last edited by cracker; October 26, 2011 at 11:08 AM.

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