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Thread: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 Discussion

  1. #151
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member NoFreakingWay's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    It doesn't work like that. Currently the last wish we know is that Miluki asked for a PC. Assuming there's nothing behind the scenes going on Killua should be able to fill the 3 pesterings from that trivially. Then he gets to make his wish. Assuming he's not trying to cheat the system (i.e. wish to know what happens if he makes wish), you'd assume the wish wouild be something like 'cure Gon'. This will cure Gon.

    Since he plans on saving Alluka, it means he has to be the one answering the pesterings anyway since nobody in their right mind would get to anywhere near Alluka at this point if they knew what what was that wish (though anyone in their right mind should never be near Alluka to begin with). At this point the pesterings Alluka asks is completely random and has absolutely nothing to do with the dialogue. Unless you're trying to cheat the system like say wait until Alluka says a few words and immediately knock him out if it sounds potentially bad, you'll have to do whatever he asks at some point. Unless Killua wants Alluka locked up (and really should be killed immediately to be safe) for the rest of his life, there's no avoiding this anyway.

    Presumably Alluka also gives reasonable time to those he ask to carry out whatever he asked for. If not, this means he actually can't ask for anything harder than your life since even asking a relatively trivial thing like say, the head of Gin, cannot possibly be obtained immediately even if you're planning on fulfilling it.
    You just described a sample "technical conversation" I'm thinking of. So it works like that.

    Oh crap, you meant the last paragraph I said. I re-read the chapter and yes, it doesn't work that way. You have to weather 3 pesterings. But a question here is: could he alternate between a decline and a grant and still get the wish after grant 3?

    EDIT: I'm gonna answer my stupid question. Yes, Killua can alternate between a grant and a pestering and he probably has to. It's going to be a matter of the opening statements, and... reply management from Killu now.
    Last edited by NoFreakingWay; October 28, 2011 at 11:21 PM.

  2. #152
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by NoFreakingWay View Post
    You just described a sample "technical conversation" I'm thinking of. So it works like that.

    Oh crap, you meant the last paragraph I said. I re-read the chapter and yes, it doesn't work that way. You have to weather 3 pesterings. But a question here is: could he alternate between a decline and a grant and still get the wish after grant 3?

    EDIT: I'm gonna answer my stupid question. Yes, Killua can alternate between a grant and a pestering and he probably has to. It's going to be a matter of the opening statements, and... reply management from Killu now.
    I don't think what Alluka asks has anything to do with whatever the conversation is about. I don't even think it's limited to his knowledge because otherwise you can just manipulate his memory and just erase it all so he doesn't know anything, and then he wouldn't be able to ask anything that'd be impossible. You get to refuse up to 3 times per favor granted, but assuming:

    1. You're given reasonable time to carry out a favor, i.e. if Alluka asks you to go kill Gin, you get a reasonable amount of time to accomplish this.

    2. There's no additional penalty for accepting a favor but ultimately failing. That is, if you offer to go kill Gin and fail to do so in the alloted time, it's no worse than just refusing in the first place.

    If it works like this then you should take the first option that looks remotely doable because the worst that happen is you fail that, which is the same as saying no in the first place. If you're already asking for a big wish, you should not hope you'll get lucky and get a manageable request toward the end. You'd have to take the first option that looks remotely possible because it is quite likely the next 3 requests are all completely impossible.

  3. #153
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    There is something that seems exceptionally strange about the billionaire wish IMO. Lets consider what was asked of the butler when it came to the wishes. He was asked for his liver, duodenum, spine and brain. The fact of the matter is that none of those could be given to alluka without outright killing the butler. I guess some weird technology could have helped (if it exists) with the liver and duodenum however it is outright impossible to live without a spine and a brain. What I find strange is that alluka would ask for outright impossible things. The other butler asked to be a billionaire and alluka's ability basically condemned them to death.

    Now, if alluka's ability is basically equivalent exchange (to her), isn't asking for their lives through her pesterings too severe? After all, no amount of money is worth a live in strictly practical ways of thinking. Now, lets consider a few things under the premise that what alluka asks for is subjective to her (which is apparently the case).

    1.- Would the pesterings change for different people? Say, if someone broke as hell and someone insanely rich asked for billions? Obviously the broke person would see more value in the billions and to the billionaire it would not be as big a deal.
    2.- Are the pesterings dependent on the limitations of the person?

    This two are important because it would mean that the degree of the wish you can ask for depends on the individual who has to grant the pesterings to alluka. Someone who already has money would be required less in return for his wish. More importantly, if the wishes to be granted by alluka are dependent on the limitations of the person then perhaps the death sentence we just saw was a direct result of those guys simply not being able to do anything to ever repay back alluka. Basically, if you ask for things which are beyond your capacity to pay back for you die either through fulfilling the requirements of the pesterings or by not fulfilling them. Basically, alluka kills you not because what you asked for is worth more than your life (which would be rare) but rather simply because it is not within your capacity to pay back one way or the other.

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  5. #154
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    The amount of money obtained looks like 400 million zenny (could be a zero we can't see, but not much point to speculate there).

    During the Yorkshin arc Gon was able to get a 100 million zenny loan on his license at 0% interest. It's said that you get about 1/10 the value of something for a loan like that, and we also know you can get about 20 million for a liver on similar terms.

    Therefore assuming same ratio holds, a liver is worth potentially 200 million in the world of HXH. So paying 3X200 million for 400 million seems pretty reasonable.

    You don't have to agree on everything Alluka demands. You can obviously refuse on the brain and see what else you get. By the way, since you can sell your liver in the world of HXH, it must be possible to remove it relatively safely in a hospital. If the guy gave up his liver + dudodenum, he has 4 chances to get some other body parts that can be removed without killing you and looking at the examples given, the chances are pretty good.

    I don't think Alluka's demand gets downgraded to 'your life' just because you can't fulfill it. In the billionaire case, it happens that a person's life is roughly the same value as the amount wished for. If the wish was for a trillon zenny, one person's organs can't be worth that much and it should be something that you cannot fulfill even if you're willing to die. Otherwise, if the pesterings is limited to killing one guy, all you have to do is manipulate another person to answer them, and at worst that guy dies. Note that if you've guys outside helping out, it might even be possible say give your brain and still keep the guy alive long enough to do another pestering (say, give your heart), and complete 3 criterias that'd get yourself killed with only one person. For a sufficiently big wish, the pesterings has to get to a point where even sacrificing yourself won't be enough.

    Edit: Checked the manga and liver is only worth 5 million on a 0% loan, so it's value is only about 50 million. So those body parts, minus the brain and the heart, is probably worth a lot less than 400 million put together.
    Last edited by Phantron; October 29, 2011 at 02:38 PM.

  6. #155
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jack Van Burace's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    ^However, we have to take into account that "later" might be considered a denial answer. You can't postpone Alluka's wish, you either grant it immediately or not. That's what seemed to me when the blondie butler was killed. If she said: "not today, master", that's denying a wish.

    So, if a person decides to go to a hospital and get a liver removed in safety, that might not satisfy the request. I don't know this for sure, but I get the feeling the wish needs to be complied with just as fast as Alluka grants a wish. Everything she asks is already available at the moment of asking, and that is a hint that one cannot postpone the fulfilling of the pesterings.

    Upsy-daisy, giving an organ, one doesn't have to go somewhere to have that available. Organs are always with you, and upsy-daisy can be done also with just your body. I don't think going to a hospital before is allowed. One would have to take their liver out on the spot, Jiggsaw Killer style.

  7. #156
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Not only that but under that idea we would be assuming alluka knows exactly what the monetary value of the organs are or that such a thing is a factor. I have my doubts that alluka would have asked for things which specifically would have added to the billions which were granted. I also doubt you can live without a liver. You can remove a part of it but you can't live at all without it (well, technically you can live but only a very short period of time, its not like having 1 kidney). The spine or brain are things which can't be given either. Wthout a brain you wouldn't even be a vegetable, you can't even be brain-dead (Lol?). Spine is a similar thing, there is no scenario under which you can live without a spine. The duodenum can be removed through surgery without the patient dying and in fact live a normal live however there is still the surgery bit which might be a bit of an issue.

    I think there is an element of both things, doing things right on the spot and going to do them however it would depend on what she is asking for. Would she ask to receive something or would she ask to have something done? I mean, if she asks for a liver it is entirely possible she would have expected you to rip it out with your own hands. If she asks you to buy her a stuffed animal then you should be allowed the time to actually do it. I guess the timeframe under which you have to grant a request will be brought up later, it is a big deal. Still, if you are asked for your spine or brain there would still be the issue that no amount of time could ever work to grant that wish since it is impossible to live without them (thus, simply die). Even if a procedure could be used for that, if the timeframe is say, one hour, then you are essentially screwed anyways.

  8. #157
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Van Burace View Post
    ^However, we have to take into account that "later" might be considered a denial answer. You can't postpone Alluka's wish, you either grant it immediately or not. That's what seemed to me when the blondie butler was killed. If she said: "not today, master", that's denying a wish.

    So, if a person decides to go to a hospital and get a liver removed in safety, that might not satisfy the request. I don't know this for sure, but I get the feeling the wish needs to be complied with just as fast as Alluka grants a wish. Everything she asks is already available at the moment of asking, and that is a hint that one cannot postpone the fulfilling of the pesterings.

    Upsy-daisy, giving an organ, one doesn't have to go somewhere to have that available. Organs are always with you, and upsy-daisy can be done also with just your body. I don't think going to a hospital before is allowed. One would have to take their liver out on the spot, Jiggsaw Killer style.
    If there isn't a time limit to carry out the pesterings then that either makes some of the pestering completely impossible or totally trivial. Either you'll get something that can never be done on the spot, or if the pesterings is limited to something that can be done on the spot then at worst you only have to sacrifice a guy. Even if all 3 pesterings requires your death, you might still be able to do them in rapid succession with the aid of another guy who can say keep you alive for just a minute or so after you lose your life.

    ---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Not only that but under that idea we would be assuming alluka knows exactly what the monetary value of the organs are or that such a thing is a factor. I have my doubts that alluka would have asked for things which specifically would have added to the billions which were granted. I also doubt you can live without a liver. You can remove a part of it but you can't live at all without it (well, technically you can live but only a very short period of time, its not like having 1 kidney). The spine or brain are things which can't be given either. Wthout a brain you wouldn't even be a vegetable, you can't even be brain-dead (Lol?). Spine is a similar thing, there is no scenario under which you can live without a spine. The duodenum can be removed through surgery without the patient dying and in fact live a normal live however there is still the surgery bit which might be a bit of an issue.

    I think there is an element of both things, doing things right on the spot and going to do them however it would depend on what she is asking for. Would she ask to receive something or would she ask to have something done? I mean, if she asks for a liver it is entirely possible she would have expected you to rip it out with your own hands. If she asks you to buy her a stuffed animal then you should be allowed the time to actually do it. I guess the timeframe under which you have to grant a request will be brought up later, it is a big deal. Still, if you are asked for your spine or brain there would still be the issue that no amount of time could ever work to grant that wish since it is impossible to live without them (thus, simply die). Even if a procedure could be used for that, if the timeframe is say, one hour, then you are essentially screwed anyways.
    Just like Neon can prophsize about stuff she has absolutely no idea about, Alluka has to be able to know the value of everything wished for and what's an equivalent thing to demand. That has to be part of Alluka's power to automatically determine the value of every possible thing that can be wished for. Otherwise, if you wish for say, the power of destroy Meryem, how on earth can Alluka possibly know what's equivalent of this? We'll know it takes at least the equivalent of a Rose to take out Meryem, but Alluka doesn't know this. Does that mean you get off easy just because Alluka doesn't know how hard this guy is to kill?

    This is also why I think Alluka's wish is most likely in favor of the wisher. When the billionaire wish was made, Alluka simply teleported a ship as opposed to create money out of thin air. It'd be ridiculous to say Alluka's power is 'nearly limitless' if he cannot create money out of thin air, but I think if he did that, it'd require a greater payback so he went with the option that's just equivalent of robbing someone for 400 million instead of create it out of thin air.

    There has to be a time dimension, otherwise indeed something like 'get me a stuffed animal' can't even be fulfilled if it has to be done on the spot. Given Alluka's ability it should be pretty trivial to assign a reasonable time for the favor he requires. If he asks you to get a stuffed animal you can't take a month, but if he ask for the head of Gin it might be reasonable to give you a month to do it.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to go to a hospital to remove your liver and then give it to Alluka, since if the goal is to kill you Alluka could've asked "I want your life". If you can sell a liver, you can obviously get a liver transplant too. In fact, if you were working with the guy who just got 400 million, what you can do is remove your liver, buy another liver transplant for 50 million, and presumably you'll still be okay. You can't do this with your brain but you can refuse on that. It's possible to even get a heart transplant, and if we assume all of Alluka's demand is some kind of vital organ, you can simply pass on brain or heart until you get something that can be transplanted. Everything Alluka demands looks like something that can be paid for with 400 million and still have a lot of money left, minus the brain/heart. Now of course the last wisher is under no obligation to help you, but it's reasonable to assume that if the wisher and the favor returner worked together, they should at least be able to break even overall.

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  10. #158
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    I don't think teleporting the carrier ship was the best practical way to do that (let alone to the benefit of the wisher)... if she really was going to do this to the benefit of the user, wouldn't it be simpler to user her power to create a bank account with the money? There really would have been several ways to to that without teleporting several tons worth of transport.

  11. #159
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    I think the exact method isn't important, it's just classified as 'freak coincidence' which is easier than 'create things out of thin air'.

    If you put the value of liver at 50 million and assume that's the median cost, 50*3 = 150 million which is actually well below the value of 400 million. If the guy who made the wish worked together with the next guy, they should be able to pocket quite a bit of cash with no serious side effects if you assume only a brain cannot be transplanted (just refuse that), and every other organ you can give it up and have the guy with money buy you a new one. Alluka's demands sounds scary, but they're actually well below the cost of conjuring 400 million out of thin air, which is why I think the value of the wish is actually less than that (since it happened via the form of a freak coincidence) if you assume the pesterings is supposed to be equal to the value of the wish.

  12. #160
    MH's Best Artist 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000!
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by NoFreakingWay View Post
    Sorry for not responding to the current discussion, but has anyone mentioned the Junji Ito-style drawings on this chapter? The drawings appeared on the pages where that babysitter asked to become a billionaire. For those who don't know Junji Ito, please read Hellstar Remina or Uzumaki. But anyway, we had so many references in this chapter. We had the Ring (Alluka's face), Death Note, and Doraemon. And let's celebrate Togashi's drawing skill continuously improving!
    Oh,you too?I was kinda surprised when I read this chapter.When I saw the butler I immediatly thought of Junji Ito.Maybe his horror works inspired Togashi to create this ability.Anyway,that's someone great he was influenced by,so let's see how it will reflect in some of the later chapters.

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  14. #161
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ero-Sanji's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by LoS View Post
    Well it's pretty apparent that Killua dealing with Alluka endangers his and Gon's life. So that is I believe the most obvious reason he wants to eliminate Alluka.

    So what would Kalluto joining the Spiders provide himself with "getting back" his sister? Not really understanding his decision/course of action.
    If I remember correctly Kalluto did say brother, no?
    So, either that was a mistake by Togashi or Kalluto is in fact after Killua and not Alluka. He did say that he wanted to bring this person back. Illumi is also in a mission of bringing Killua back one way or another, but his methods are more cruel. Trying to scare him back or kill Gon to give up on his "freedom" searching.

    The picture of the family with the face of Alluka facing away from us might have been Togashi's act of fooling us into thinking that Kalluto is after Alluka, but in reality he wants to drag Killua back.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think the evil genie scenario is that extreme, I would see it as a case by case thing. Some wishes might be granted by taking or injuring someone however others might be plain reality bending in a extreme. After all, you can take things from someone but there are things which you would not be able to grant that way.
    It doesn't have to be evil, but rather realistic. Alluka is most definitely not a conjurer, henceforth, whatever he grants or summons is probably going to exist in some form, if the wish is of materialistic value like money, gems or just a computer. The interesting thing is to see how Alluka's ability tackles non-materialistic wishes. Like love, fame and intelligence.
    Fate of Darkness vs Rubber Dream
    Purple Dragon vs Three-sword-Dragon
    Alcohol vs Money
    Lazy Eye vs Eye Lie
    Wrestling Jesus vs Cooking Pervert
    Horseman of Death vs Deer Life
    Decaying Female vs Blooming Demon
    Battleship vs Cyborg
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    THIS BATTLE HAS IT ALL!!!

  15. #162
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    The people who died to Alluka's power died spontaneously.

    There's no way Alluka is not capable of making things spontaneously happen or he wouldn't be able to grant a wish like "give me a quadrillion dollar in $100 bills" (because there aren't enough $100 bills in the world).

  16. #163
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Uriel's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    MS translation is more clear about Illumi line about manipulation. Now I got it :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Tombadgerlock View Post
    In the latest chapter, it's revealed Illumi's needle is responsible for making Killua ignore Alluka. It's possible Illumi wants to kill those Killua loves to 'make him stronger' or some such thing.
    I think it's more "get away from danger" situation than kill those He loves. He would have done so with Gon then a while ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoFreakingWay View Post
    And let's celebrate Togashi's drawing skill continuously improving!
    Amen.
    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    What surprises me is that no one has started to rank about how togashi simply included the dragon balls or hyogoku equivalent to this manga. There might be rules but ultimately alluka is essentially the same thing. If this had happened in bleach people would begin ranting to no end. Funny how people react to the same same thing across different manga lol.
    I think it's because due the nature of how was introduced, a character that was foreshadowed before and above all because there is rules that makes it interesting. Also, it's in the most coolest family of assassins of all manga.
    The Sky is pouring
    The wind is blowing
    The sea looks red,
    a surging sea of flames
    looks like the entrance to hell
    'Perfect', the captain said.

  17. #164
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ErosVp's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel View Post
    I think it's because due the nature of how was introduced, a character that was foreshadowed before and above all because there is rules that makes it interesting. Also, it's in the most coolest family of assassins of all manga.
    And because it is important, but not one of the most importants things of the manga (maybe not even the most important thing of this arc). And the rules makes it hard for anyone to try get his wish realized, even the most strongest villain might not want to try his luck with the pesterings....

    What do you desire? Money? Glory? Power? Revenge? Or something that surpass all others?
    Whatever you desire.... That is here... Tower of God!

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  19. #165
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zelllogan's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter x Hunter Chapter 322 / 323 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by ErosVp View Post
    And because it is important, but not one of the most importants things of the manga (maybe not even the most important thing of this arc). And the rules makes it hard for anyone to try get his wish realized, even the most strongest villain might not want to try his luck with the pesterings....
    And also because it's not strange at all to have such an ability in the world of nen. If an author put rules & break his own rules, it's annoying me. But here, I don't see the problem.

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