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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Usopp has his Pop Greens, Usual Ammo, Black Kabuto, His Dials
Wiper has his Burn Bazooka, Reject Dial, and Skate Wavers
There fight takes place in the same forest Luffy fought him...
I would say Wiper. He has more raw power and his weapon is more devastating. Also he has better mobility.
I would go with ussop at the moment. If ussop hadn't surpassed wiper by now IMO he would not be worth a damn in the new world. Ussop has range, his capacity to take punishment which should have improved considerably and a new dial enhanced weapon, I don't think he would lose to this guy.
Usopp is overrated & will win the poll easily.
Wiper was good, "Luffy/Sanji/Zorro" good ... He was a true warrior.
I'm still not sure that Usopp right now is stronger than the Luffy from Skypiea Arc. It's easy to overrestimate strawhats because of the current arc.
But well, it's still a shounen: power levels & incoherence are never far away from each other. So, I guess it can be normal that a scaredy cat who is trained two years can become stronger than the strongest warrior of an entire specie who is in war since his birth ...
Last edited by zelllogan; October 22, 2011 at 03:55 PM.
It depends on the type of training they go through for the most part and that heavily depends on who the teacher is. There are plenty of people who train their entire lives and don't become strong but then you have people with more talent or better teachers who become stronger in much shorter periods. Take lucci, he was 30 and he would be fodder to anyone strong, just as luffy was. Also, measuring strength between characters is not something that can be done on strength or speed alone. Ussop is not a melee fighter, he does not rely on speed or strength so him not matching up to others in that department does not mean he is outright weak. Ussop is a sniper/gardener(wtf) so he relies on range, firepower, his weapon (which went through yet another improvement) and his plants. Ussop has and knows dials, ussop has a number of powerful plants and enough firepower to blow a crater in the ground along with the means to control the terrain he is to his advantage. He might not be as physically capable as wiper but I would think that if ussop is to be worth a pickle in the new world then odds are he can at least give a fight to a number of the strong people luffy fought back in the day. Enel and lucci would perhaps be too much for ussop (enel would be worth 500 mil according to oda) but I would think ussop has acquired the means to fight most of the villains before that on his own.
Ussop obviously! A crewmember of the future pirate king. Wiper seems strong, but he only uses dial to fight, and in a fight between gadgets Ussop should be incomparable now...
Wiper was on par with Luffy. So people really believe that Luffy can be taken by post-timeskip Usopp? I highly doubt it. Luffy actually trashed Usopp with two or three attacks, while Usopp's attacks practically didn't have any effect on Luffy. So do people believe that Usopp got that much stronger? I don't believe. His attacks got more variety and range with his pop green, but they still didn't show to be really powerful. Maybe his fight in this arc will show us more development, but for now nothing on Usopp's part can compare to Burn Bazooka that Viper used. It was really devastating. Also Usopp never showed anything to be able to compete with someone with greater speed and Viper will catch him pretty quickly and then he can use Impact or Reject Dial or Burn Bazooka from point blank.
Luffy in Skypea didn't even have gear 2. Luffy grew stronger until shabondy, and Ussop too... And even Wiper managing a 'tie' with Luffy in shabondy, in a really serious fight there i don't imagine him winning against any of the monster 3
Now the strengh of a gadget user comes from skill and resistence to take punishment. Wiper was strong because of his dials, but a punch of him shouldn't be that strong since he didn't use and his combat style wasn't focused in martial arts... Ussop has dials and pop greens, grow stronger, plus his understanding and inteligence of how to use his gadgets to its maximum potential must be incredible now! And i'm not forgeting Ussop could take a blow of a hammer weighting tons and still fight back since Alabasta.
Agreed, luffy from ennies lobby onward is dramatically stronger than luffy at any time before. Lets also remember ussop managed a decent bit against pre time skip luffy back in water seven. IMO yeah, ussop can take out luffy from before water seven. His strength wouldn't be worth a damn if he could not manage that little.
I can agree that he may now take Luffy from Water 7, but if we are comparing Usopp to Wiper... seriously. Usopp was practically useless before timeskip. He didn't win against anyone in Ennies Lobby, he won against Perona, but only because he was good against her ability. It was like Luffy's DF against Enel's DF. Usopp before timeskip was actually the weakest excluding Nami.
Now he might take Wiper, but only if he manages to not let him land a hit of Dials or Burn Bazooka.
And about Wiper... he actually took the second or the third strongest of Enel's Priests and also some amount of Enel's enforcers, fought on par with Luffy and then fought for some time against Enel, while Usopp and Sanji struggled together against the weakest Priest and Usopp was fairly beaten. I would say that Wiper would have taken Sanji or Usopp during Skypea Arc if they would have met. I would even dare to say that he could have made a tie against two of them simultaneusly. At least he would have a decent chance, considering Usopp's mobility and Sanji being a close range fighter.
Luffy from water seven should clearly be stronger than wiper from skypeia arc. Why would dials be such an overwhelming advantage? for one thing, ussop has dias and weapon enhanced dials. The chances of him getting caught off guard with that are basically 0. Ussop would naturally deduce what wiper can use however nothing will help wiper deduce what ussop can do. More so, ussop already had an uncanny capacity to take damage back in the day and now he is obviously much more physically capable (even if not necessarily a monster). I don't see why it would be so hard to believe that the sniper of the pirate king would have trouble with enemies who in the grand scheme of things are not even powerless. Remember rockstar? The guy has a 94 mil bounty and he is barely a rookie in shanks crew. If ussop wants to be one of the primary members of the pirate kings crew then luffy's enemies from part one (with the strength they had then) should be fodder to him at some point. Lucci, was not strong in the grand scheme of things. Luffy from SA was worthless in the grand scheme of things. Moria (who in all likelyhood was stronger than luffy in a straight fight) was too weak to be a shichibukai and was defeated by a bunch of pacifista (who we have credible evidence to believe they would be one shotted by anyone of mediocre actual strength). Yassop was a drunk with a crappy gun and made himself into one of the relevant members of a yonko crew. Why is it so hard to believe ussop would achieve actual strength in the grand scheme of things?
I understand your point, but I can't agree with your logic. Until Usopp clearly shows us in the manga that he has some serious and strong attacks, I can't say that he can take Wiper. And how come Usopp can deduce Wiper's speed or Burn Bazooka?
I don't argue that Usopp can achieve some level of strength, but up till now he didn't show anything to be considered as strong as you try to show him. Curent Usopp just took useless fake Nami after timeskip, so I hope he can show us something in a fight against NFP commanders.
As far as deducing I meant specifically the dials. Ussop knows and uses dials himself so how would wiper surprise him in that department?
I would also argue that the bazooka is the worst weapon he could use against ussop. Ussop is the sniper of the strawhats, would wiper ever surpass ussop's ranged accuracy? I doubt it. More so, I would even argue ussop has already shown substantially more firepower and versatility than wiper's bazooka. Remember the huge crater ussop made with his slingshot? I don't think wiper's bazooka comes close. More so, luffy' strength from water seven did not flat out take out ussop even though he was wounded. Ussop right now should be considerably stronger than what he was before the timeskip. If half dead ussop from water seven could take luffy's attacks to that extent, I don't see how someone weaker than that would defeat post time skip ussop.
I already showed several examples:
1. Burn Bazooka (I don't remember which dial is used there, but Usopp doesn't have any way to counter it unless it will be showed)
2. Milk Dial or whatever it was called (when the user make a road out of a cloud and permit them travel on high speed). Usopp also can't counter it.
Bazooka doesn't need to be that acurate. Remember the size of a beam that got out of it. Even if you aren't that accurate half a meter won't be that bad of a quality. Actually Luffy from that Arc (who wasn't that slow) barely managed to dodge. And he wasn't at point blank. So how come Usopp who never had speed fits would dodge it? And I don't believe that Usopp has anything close to Burn Bazooka in fire power.
As I said earlier Luffy didn't want to really bit Usopp. He hold back pretty much, because no matter what argument Usopp was his close friend. He himself didn't want to fight him that much, but he was Captain and needed to show his stregth and resolve to the crew. And Usopp actually got down after several half-ass attacks from Luffy, so I wouldn't say that it was something in his favour to count.
Well I think you're completely underestimating Usopp too say he'd lose to Wiper. The way I see it the timeskip was so they'd be able to curb stop any and everyone not only in the grandline but the beginning of the new world and evolve from their old styles. Wiper was nice and all but I never found him strong besides his will. Unless he obtained a new weapon I doubt Wiper could fight Usopp. He has an arsenal of unknown weapons we haven't seen too. Also his tactics are phenomenal and I'm positive they're better than before. Yes, wiper this wiper that. Brain beats brawn in this case.