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Thread: Uchiha Izuna is Tobi - My ultimate theory

  1. #1
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member khaja_200923's Avatar
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    Uchiha Izuna is Tobi - My ultimate theory

    Tobi is izuna uchiha revived by madara using gedo rinne tensei before his final moments My theory:

    madara didn't die in the battle he left the konoha and went into hiding with hashirama's living tissue and cultivated it to grow into giant tissue flower.
    he remained silent and started collecting sharings(more like grave robbing) in two shinobi wars which he may have instigated himself.which was continued by tobi in third shinobi war.http://www.mangareader.net/93-49211-...apter-488.html
    it took him while to research on how to create white zetsu's(with no mind,life) and then madara absorbed hashirama's cell into his body not completely in a similar but more effective way than danzo but still he was unable to awaken rinnegan.
    By this time at the beginning of third shinobi war he was near death due to old age so in desperate measure to leave behind his will madara used izanagi to create black and white zetsu with their own life and mind. http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html and lost the amaterasu eye.
    he continued experimenting on zetsu's body by planting them with stolen sharingan's they were still unable to awaken rinnegan.
    So he thought about doing living human experimentation on senju's children's which was unthinkable on his part because konoha was strong and he risked exposing his identity.So then he found about uzumaki lineage in whirlpool country(eddy village) which was already on the brink of destruction.he put a few uzumaki families under his genjutsu to take refuge i into rain village(war torn village) where it was easy for him to move.
    He experimented on various uzumaki families by giving them sharingans(stolen ones) and killed their family members in fornt of them to bring out the emotional trigger to awaken rinnegan and he finally succeeded at nagato uzumaki.and left him with it to develop them. NOTE:rinnegan is awakened here with the feelings of loss of someone close and strong hatred to convert sharingan to rinnegan in sage's body. madara whole experiment was this search exact emotions for awakening.
    this time he was able to awaken rinnegan after placing himself under tsukiyomi to undergo the same emotions as nagato.
    but the rinnegan was awakened only for few moments during this few moments time.he used gedo rinne tensei to bring back his dead brother Izuna back to life into zetsu's/hashirama's clone body.
    He explained his plans including moons eye plan to his brother and gave him his(the one madara was born with) almost lightless MS.believing that it will gain light EMS upon finding new host in his brother.
    Izuna after transplanting them didn't receive a new light(EMS) like his brother because he was revived in ZETSU'S body/chakra not his own but the soul/mind was still his own.. instead of his own set of EMS eye's he obtained unparalleled Trans-dimensional teleportation technique which can be only obtained when non-uchiha obtains and develops the sharingan.(like kakashi gained trans-dimensional ability by awakening MS).
    despite being in others body he awakend a new ability because the soul/mind was still izuna's.
    despite being shown so many MS user no one else had trans-dimensional abilities beacause they had uchiha's bodies.

    what i'm saying is that when MS eye transfered into his brother they tend to gain new light EMS. since he was revived with his brother's eyes he is supposed to have his own set of EMS eyes.. but since he was in non uchiha body/chakra yet has his soul/mind so he didn't awoke EMS instead he gained this teleportation abilty which can be considered as EMS level compared to kakashi's MS ability....
    this EMS level teleportation ability only makes sense for izuna(in zetsu's body/chakra) or any other shinobi in someone else body/chakra(half e.gchimaru had others body but he had his own chakra) recieves his brother's MS eye's

    madara died shortly after the use of gedo rinne tensei.

    now izuna took madara's tsukiyomi eye(or his own eye the one izuna was born with) as per instructed by madara before his death into his right eye.
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html now he had EMS right eye(his own) and MS (his brother's alomst blind eye).
    izuna was unable to awaken the rinnegan himself much less unable use his brothers left eye(except use it as sacrifice for izanagi)..
    Izuna saw his brothers plans in detail and the history by the self triggered tsukiyomi on izuna setup by madara.now Izuna had the same hatred towards shinobi and same goals as madara.
    Izuna who followed his brothers back and competed against became one with his idealism's to the point he lost himself in madara.they always had the same ideology to begin with most likely the same plans for future.
    Izuna also used izanagi but to change his appearances and his chakra to that of his madara form after absorbing his dead brother madara's chakra(before changing form he looked like zetsu with sharingan)
    ..white zetsu also obtained this ability to transform shape and chakra.Izuna replaced blinded left eye(used for Izanagi) by another MS eye of his brother.

    Facts supporting my theory:
    1.we know for sure that tobi's body is like that of zetsu from his various fights.http://www.mangareader.net/93-41585-...apter-475.html
    2.here kyubi identified this tobi's eye as the same which controlled him during the fight between madara and hashirama http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html. so his right eye is madara's(the one Izuna was born with)
    3.here tobi has 2nd sharingan with almost no light (to the point he only used mask with one eye hole the same eye in which madara almost lost light) and used it as a sacrifice for izanagi.http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html so here we can say he has madara's dull eye or else why bother with such a dull eye when you got reserves.http://www.mangareader.net/93-49211-...apter-488.html
    4.tobi's trans-dimensional teleportation ability far more powerful than kakashi's MS space-time-dimensional ability can be signified as EMS ability.
    so now According to my theory when izuna in zetsu's body was planted with madara's eye's(the one his madara was born with). He(Izuna) was expected to achieve new light but since he was not in his own body he didn't recieved new light his both eye's were almost lightless. but instead he got trans-dimensional teleportation ability (EMS level instead of ems)....
    if it was anyone else other than izuna then there is no reason to expect a new light or an ability for all it matters...because EMS tranfer occurs between brothers which is the ugly truth of chiha clan..
    Now Izuna had his brother's eye's in his both eyes and now According to my theory he uses one eye for izanagi to change his shape and chakra into that from zetsu to madara after absorbing his chakra.(which is also gained by other whit zetsu's) and Izuna takes madara's tsukiyomi eye(only working eye according to theory) into his right eye..
    5.it's also known that tobi has appearance similar to madara and his chakra similar that of an uchiha or anyone sensor type could've picked that he is not uchiha especially since they are also known for their unparalled quality in chakra.http://www.mangareader.net/93-403-18...apter-398.html
    Now ending up with Izuna's eye in right eye and madara's eye in left eye(the one they were born with)
    and shape and chakra that of madara. so this facts pretty much state that my theory fits right in and tobi can be none other than izuna uchiha


    1. madara planned on reviving himself with nagato's gedo rinne tensei by Tobi's help after the collecting of bijuu's is completedhttp://www.mangareader.net/93-454-1/...apter-449.html
    and that's why the first thing madara talked about was nagato thinking he was revived but was shocked to learn that he was resurrected by ET.http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/559/2
    2.Tobi was also shocked when nagato deceived and him and used rinne tensei for naruto which he was supposed to used for him to revive madara which was the basic reason to give rinnegan to nagato but he had a move forward the plan by reviving madara himself after obtaining the rinnegan from nagato's corpse so he searched desperately for konan by using zetsu http://www.mangareader.net/93-458-17...apter-453.html.
    3.but here kabuto got first in resurrecting madara before tobi could get his hands on rinnegan.
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-50180-...apter-490.html at that moment Tobi almost pissed in his pants.
    4.

    ---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

    I have covered and explained many things like
    1)black/white zetsu origin
    2)uzumaki survivors fate in rain village
    3)tobi's both sharingan eyes
    4)kakashi's/tobi's space-time-dimensional MS/EMS eye technique
    5)madara's EMS+Mokuton+rinnegan
    6)nagato's importance for madara and tobi.
    7)white zetsu shape and chakra transforming ability etc.,

    and i think for sure none of these are yet to be explained by kishimoto...heh..heh.heh.. looks like my observation can be compared with shikamaru nara...
    (it doesn't make me happy at all stupid)
    Last edited by khaja_200923; August 23, 2012 at 06:15 AM. Reason: changing text colour
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member katon_style's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    tobi is izuna son.madara left the plan to him before he died.tobi has parts of madara's body like kabuto has parts of oro's body.i don't know the details of zetsu creation but a guy from shounen jump on facebook told me a lot of spoilersw and i have posted in 562 prediction thread the outcome of the entire manga

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member killy-.-'s Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    the whole Tobi iz Izuna doesnt make sense,make it simple , Madara got a zetsu and used Tsukoyomi on him, thus the zetsu ( Tobi ) thinks he is the real Madara ... u are right about non Uchina MS eyes and ST jutsus, Tobi has 1 MS eye

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member khaja_200923's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    Quote Originally Posted by killy-.- View Post
    the whole Tobi iz Izuna doesnt make sense,make it simple , Madara got a zetsu and used Tsukoyomi on him, thus the zetsu ( Tobi ) thinks he is the real Madara ... u are right about non Uchina MS eyes and ST jutsus, Tobi has 1 MS eye
    well i can simplify it as madara with implanted hashirama cells first used izanagi and created black and white zetsu...
    after finally succeeding his experiment at nagato to create rinnegan. he used tsukiyomi upon himself to trigger the same feelings nagato felt to awaken his own rinnegan. during this awakening madara used gedo rinne tensei to revive his brother but in the body of zetsu and he died after the usage of GRT at his age...
    so there u have it Izuna was revived inside zetsu's body and planned same to be done to him. the rest can be understood pretty easily.
    Last edited by khaja_200923; October 27, 2011 at 05:20 PM.
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Hiking_Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    My reaction to the theory is that there is not much evidence to support it. The facts that you listed at the end of your post don't point to Izuna specifically. They could be used in support of almost any theory about Tobi that doesn't even involve Izuna. The major problem with Izuna theories is that we don't know all that much about Izuna, so there's very little to go by.
    Whenever someone writes the word "probably", I read it as "possibly, but not likely"
    Edo Tensei summons the soul, not the body.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member khaja_200923's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    1.madara cultivated and grew hashirama's cells into giant tissue flower
    2.he planted himself with hashirama cells
    3.sacrificed amaterasu eye to use izanagi and created black and white zetsu with their own life's and minds
    4.continuously collected sharingan's during 1st and 2nd shinobi war and planted them in zetsu's hoping for the awakening of rinnegan
    5.he used genjutsu to bring uzumaki families into rain village where he can move easily and started experimenting on them.
    6.he succeeded at nagato in awakening rinnegan he copied nagato's emotions during the time of awakening and put himself through tsukiyomi to undergo the same emotions
    7.he succeeded this time in awakening rinnegan but only for few moments and used gedo rinne tensei to revive his brother (who shared his ideology) in zetsu's body..and he planted his brother with his own eye's(almost lightless MS eye's) and died few moments later.
    8.Izuna was unable to obtain new light(EMS) but instead obtained trans-dimensional teleportation ability which is only obtained by non-unchiha MS users(kakashi MS=trans dimensional bility. izuna EMS=trans dimensional teleportaion ability)
    9.after madara death he took back his own tsukiyomi into his right eye and learned his further plans and history by self activated tsukiyomi setup by madara.
    10.izuna used izanagi to tranform his form and chakra into that of madara after absorbing madara's chakra..white zetsu also obtained this ability.(by the way he used his brother's almost lightless eye for sacrifice which was replaced by another of his brothers eye so he didn't need a mask with two eye hole's coz left was almost blind.)
    11.madara planned on getting himself revived into zetsu's body too like he did for his brother by using nagato's rinnegan and Izumi was supposed to lead his growth..
    that's the pretty much the gist of my theory

    ---------- Post added at 05:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 AM ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear View Post
    My reaction to the theory is that there is not much evidence to support it. The facts that you listed at the end of your post don't point to Izuna specifically. They could be used in support of almost any theory about Tobi that doesn't even involve Izuna. The major problem with Izuna theories is that we don't know all that much about Izuna, so there's very little to go by.
    no there's plenty of proof in theory itself i didn't distinguished them and add them again in facts.
    1.we know for sure that tobi's body is like that of zetsu from his various fights.http://www.mangareader.net/93-41585-...apter-475.html
    2.here kyubi identified this tobi's eye as the same which controlled him during the fight between madara and hashirama http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html. so his right eye is madara's(the one Izuna was born with)
    3.here tobi has 2nd sharingan with almost no light (to the point he only used mask with one eye hole the same eye in which madara almost lost light) and used it as a sacrifice for izanagi.http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html so here we can say he has madara's dull eye or else why bother with such a dull eye when you got reserves.http://www.mangareader.net/93-49211-...apter-488.html
    4.tobi's trans-dimensional teleportation ability far more powerful than kakashi's MS trans-dimensional ability can be signified as EMS ability.
    so now According to my theory when izuna in zetsu's body was planted with madara's eye's(the one his madara was born with) he(Izuna) was expected to achieve new light but since he was not in his own body he didn't recieved new light his both eye's were almost lightless. but instead he got trans-dimensional teleportation ability (EMS level instead of ems)....
    if it was anyone else other than izuna then there is no reason to expect a new light or an ability for all it matters...because EMS tranfer occurs between brothers which is the ugly truth of chiha clan..
    Now Izuna had his brother's eye's in his both eyes and now According to my theory uses a eye for izanagi to change change his shape and chakra into that from zetsu to madara after absorbing his chakra.(which is also gained by other whit zetsu's) and Izuna takes madara's tsukiyomi eye(only working eye according to theory) into his right eye..
    5.it's also known that tobi has appearance similar to madara and his chakra similar that of an uchiha or anyone sensor type could've picked that he is not uchiha especially since they are also known for their unparalled quality in chakra.http://www.mangareader.net/93-403-18...apter-398.html
    Now ending up with Izuna's eye in right eye and madara's eye in left eye(the one they were born with)
    and shape and chakra that of madara. so this facts pretty much state that my theory fits right in and tobi can be none other than izuna uchiha


    ---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiggyKage View Post
    @Najmuddin

    The flaw in that theory is,

    Tobi states he is a shell of his former self. If Izuna was revived via Gedo Rinne Tensei. He would be at his full powers.
    plz read the theory again if u haven't read it.. well i'll still repeat(copy paste) myself.
    Izuna was revived in ZETSU'S body NOT HIS OWN whch was necessary to awaken Rinnegan. madara planted him with his own eye's(almost lightless)
    8.Izuna was expected to obtain new light(EMS) but instead he obtained trans-dimensional teleportation ability which is only obtained by non-unchiha MS users(kakashi MS=trans dimensional bility. izuna EMS=trans dimensional teleportaion ability).beacuse Izuna was not in his own body but it was still his own soul so he awakened a new ability
    9.after madara death he took back his own tsukiyomi into his right eye and learned his further plans and history by self activated tsukiyomi setup by madara.
    10.izuna used izanagi to tranform his form and chakra into that of madara after absorbing madara's chakra..white zetsu also obtained this ability.(by the way he used his brother's almost lightless eye for sacrifice which was replaced by another of his brothers eye so he didn't need a mask with two eye hole's coz left was almost blind.)
    here he can definetely say he is madara's former self...
    Last edited by khaja_200923; October 27, 2011 at 07:48 PM.
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Hiking_Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    1. That Tobi's body is partially made out of Zetsu goo could point to Tobi = Zetsu clone theory or Tobi = Obito fixed up by Zetsu theory, or Tobi = Zetsu's other half theory, or any theory involving Zetsu. Although it's possible to think up a scenario involving both Izuna and Zetsu, this doesn't specifically point to Izuna.


    2. There seems to be stronger indications that Madara's eyes became Rinnegans and were given to Nagato. This is what Tobi told to Konan before he killed her. I don't think Tobi's right eye was Madara's.


    3. I don't think there is any reason to believe that Madara's blinded eyes are even around anymore. We know that Tobi collected many Sharingan from the Uchiha massacre. The eye that he used for Izanagi could easily have been one of those.


    4. We don't know that EMS grants a teleportation/phasing ability. There is reason to believe that it doesn't. Tobi's time-space power is one of the best defensive/offensive powers to have, yet Edo-Madara, who was shown with the EMS did not use this power at all. Why didn't Edo-Madara simply let Naruto's Rasenshuriken pass through him? Or why didn't he phase through Gaara's sand to avoid being pulled out of the Susanoo? Or why didn't he phase through the impact of his meteor attack? The answer is clear. Madara, with his EMS, did not have the warp/phase power that Tobi has. There is more reason to look for a connection with Obito, since only Kakashi's Kamui has a similar effect, and Tobi noted that Kakashi's Kamui will not work against him.

    5. It is not known that Tobi's appearance is similar to Madara's. From what we've seen of Tobi's face, I would say that it isn't the case. What Tobi does share with Madara are his memories. During the 9-tails attack, Minato deduced that the only person capable of knowing that the seal would weaken during childbirth, as well as being able to summon the 9-tails, was Madara. If Izuna was truly dead before VoTE, he wouldn't have acquired nearly as much knowledge as Madara did, or as much knowledge as Tobi has displayed.
    Whenever someone writes the word "probably", I read it as "possibly, but not likely"
    Edo Tensei summons the soul, not the body.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    Madara never aged, if he had he would have been revived as an old man rather than in his youthful form. Madara lived at least until nagato was given uchiha powers which is some 30 years ago, otherwise he would not have known nagato.

    If hashirama had used izanagi with his sharingan before he would have been revived at least as a partially blind man. Madara had perfect eyesight before he died based on what we just saw.

    Zetsu is a clone of sorts of the first hokage. Based on what the manga has told us, madara only acquired hashirama's dna and power during their last fight.

    Also, I doubt you can revive people that freely with gedo rinne tensei. Why wouldn't nagato revive yahiko? Its not like he did not have his perfectly preserved functioning body. I would think there is a time limit to reviving someone....

    The facts don't even support your theory either. You merely interpreted them and filled in the blanks so that they would vaguely fit your idea. Its not like it is plausible to prove madara went to konoha to kidnap a bunch of senju kids.

    Of course, it is very interesting that madara mentioned nagato. It does kinda seemed like madara expected to be resurrected by nagato and was surprised it was done by someone else. There seems to be another issue here though. Doesn't it kinda seem like tobi does not want to revive madara? Nagato was an adult manipulated by tobi for a number of years, why wasn't madara brought back before? More so, kabuto mentioned tobi deviated from the original plan. I don't think izuna, if he had been a loving brother, would have not revived his brother as soon as he could. Heck, tobi acquired his own rinnengan and he still did not seem to have any intent of bringing back the original madara.

    To me it would make sense tobi is a clone of madara that did not enjoy all of his powers, hence the shell of the former self bit. Now, it is plausible izuna could be somehow involved in this however the facts you mentioned don't necessarily point to that and the events which would filled in have no evidence whatsoever to have happened.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member khaja_200923's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear View Post
    1. That Tobi's body is partially made out of Zetsu goo could point to Tobi = Zetsu clone theory or Tobi = Obito fixed up by Zetsu theory, or Tobi = Zetsu's other half theory, or any theory involving Zetsu. Although it's possible to think up a scenario involving both Izuna and Zetsu, this doesn't specifically point to Izuna.


    2. There seems to be stronger indications that Madara's eyes became Rinnegans and were given to Nagato. This is what Tobi told to Konan before he killed her. I don't think Tobi's right eye was Madara's.


    3. I don't think there is any reason to believe that Madara's blinded eyes are even around anymore. We know that Tobi collected many Sharingan from the Uchiha massacre. The eye that he used for Izanagi could easily have been one of those.


    4. We don't know that EMS grants a teleportation/phasing ability. There is reason to believe that it doesn't. Tobi's time-space power is one of the best defensive/offensive powers to have, yet Edo-Madara, who was shown with the EMS did not use this power at all. Why didn't Edo-Madara simply let Naruto's Rasenshuriken pass through him? Or why didn't he phase through Gaara's sand to avoid being pulled out of the Susanoo? Or why didn't he phase through the impact of his meteor attack? The answer is clear. Madara, with his EMS, did not have the warp/phase power that Tobi has. There is more reason to look for a connection with Obito, since only Kakashi's Kamui has a similar effect, and Tobi noted that Kakashi's Kamui will not work against him.

    5. It is not known that Tobi's appearance is similar to Madara's. From what we've seen of Tobi's face, I would say that it isn't the case. What Tobi does share with Madara are his memories. During the 9-tails attack, Minato deduced that the only person capable of knowing that the seal would weaken during childbirth, as well as being able to summon the 9-tails, was Madara. If Izuna was truly dead before VoTE, he wouldn't have acquired nearly as much knowledge as Madara did, or as much knowledge as Tobi has displayed.
    2.kyuubi here clearly recognized his eye. http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html and it well known fact that kyuubi was only controlled by single person madara during war between hashirama and madara and then was sealed in mito then kushino..

    3.then why did he wore single eyed mask if that eye had light...besides if he used his right eye for izanagi then he would have rinnegan in his right eye not left.. and he clearly can go back and forth sharingan to normal in his left eye which cant be possible unless he was revived with those eyes... tobi cant do the same with his right eye coz he transplanted it himself from madara's dead body after using izanagi first time.. ..http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html

    4.no EMS doesn't grant teleportation abilites to uchiha's but he was revived in zetsu's boy's with his brother's eye so intead of new EMS light he gained this EMS level teleportation ability and his remained totatlly dim not completely blind coz madara changed before that could happen with izuna...
    i'll explain this teleportatiion ability theory in little extra detail this time ... this is an ability gained only by non-uchiha body/chakra user when he masters the sharingan and achieves MS so kakashi gained trans-dimensional ability and since Izuna was revived in non-uchiha's(zetsu{senju}) body/chkara instead of gaining light he gained this ability...because the mind/soul was still izuna's...
    if he was anyone else other than izuna he would not have recieved this ability cause EMS can only be obtained by transfer between brother's(that's uchiha's blood written ugly truth..)
    5. As i already said when he transplanted dead madara EMS eye into his right eye he was under self triggered tsukiyomi setup by madara.. and he saw his entire plans and the history.....
    whoosh i just said is already in main theory with links only if u had read it or understood it i wouldn't have to go through all this effort to type again...shikamaru would also say so right...
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Hiking_Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    2. Kyuubi may have been reacting to Madara's chakra or will, not necessarily the eye. Anyway, what you're saying about Tobi's eye is in contradiction with what we've recently learned about Madara's eyes. Madara said he unlocked the Rinnegan (and we've seen that). Why would Tobi go after Nagato's Rinnegan, if he already possessed Madara's eyes (which are also Rinnegan) - it doesn't make sense. Plus, Tobi told Konan that Nagato's eyes were originally Madara's. So, these are facts that contradict this part of your theory.

    3. Tobi's left Sharingan did not look lightless. It displayed an activated 3 tomoe. I think the reason Tobi kept the left eye covered is the same reason why Danzo and Kakashi kept their Sharingan covered. To be specific, the left side of Tobi's body is not Uchiha, it is something else - perhaps fully Zetsu material.

    4. No direct evidence here. There is no current link between Izuna and Tobi's space/time tech. First, you are saying that EMS can develop a spacetime tech if transplanted (which there is no evidence supporting this). And secondly, you are saying that Izuna received Madara's EMS (and there is also no evidence supporting this). To much of a stretch to make the connection to Izuna. It's much simpler (Occam's Razor) to make the connection directly between Tobi's spacetime tech to the only thing similar to it - Kakashi's Kamui.

    5. As I said before, this doesn't point to Izuna. Madara could Tsukiyomi anybody then.
    Whenever someone writes the word "probably", I read it as "possibly, but not likely"
    Edo Tensei summons the soul, not the body.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member khaja_200923's Avatar
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    Re: Izuna uchiha is tobi. my ultimate theory

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Madara never aged, if he had he would have been revived as an old man rather than in his youthful form. Madara lived at least until nagato was given uchiha powers which is some 30 years ago, otherwise he would not have known nagato.

    If hashirama had used izanagi with his sharingan before he would have been revived at least as a partially blind man. Madara had perfect eyesight before he died based on what we just saw.

    Zetsu is a clone of sorts of the first hokage. Based on what the manga has told us, madara only acquired hashirama's dna and power during their last fight.

    Also, I doubt you can revive people that freely with gedo rinne tensei. Why wouldn't nagato revive yahiko? Its not like he did not have his perfectly preserved functioning body. I would think there is a time limit to reviving someone....

    The facts don't even support your theory either. You merely interpreted them and filled in the blanks so that they would vaguely fit your idea. Its not like it is plausible to prove madara went to konoha to kidnap a bunch of senju kids.

    Of course, it is very interesting that madara mentioned nagato. It does kinda seemed like madara expected to be resurrected by nagato and was surprised it was done by someone else. There seems to be another issue here though. Doesn't it kinda seem like tobi does not want to revive madara? Nagato was an adult manipulated by tobi for a number of years, why wasn't madara brought back before? More so, kabuto mentioned tobi deviated from the original plan. I don't think izuna, if he had been a loving brother, would have not revived his brother as soon as he could. Heck, tobi acquired his own rinnengan and he still did not seem to have any intent of bringing back the original madara.

    To me it would make sense tobi is a clone of madara that did not enjoy all of his powers, hence the shell of the former self bit. Now, it is plausible izuna could be somehow involved in this however the facts you mentioned don't necessarily point to that and the events which would filled in have no evidence whatsoever to have happened.
    i never said he kidnapped senju children i said it was unthinkable on his part coz going to konoha means he would've endangered revealing himself and also that it was madara himself went to whirlpool country(eddy village) which was already being destroyed(ofcourse without any madra's interference) and put them under genjutsu to take refuge in rain village where madara can move and experiment on them easily....
    i also mentioned he didn't gave them(uzumaki) his eye's but stolen sharingan's and experimented on them and succeeded at nagato...
    when i've mentioned already he himself experimented on nagato there was no need to mention he lived till third shinobi war
    the only thing that made sense in your post is the usage of gedo rinne tensei of course yahiko's body was no where near that can be revived his body was punctured head to toe with rods and no blood... ...http://www.mangareader.net/93-454-1/...apter-449.html

    also Izuna was always watching nagato and made nagato to promise that he will use gedo rinne tensei for tobi's sake only..
    Izuna was planning on reviving madara(in zetsu's body same as izuna's body) after he acquired all the bijuu's which was infact madara's plan to be revived after the completion of capturing all bijuu's.. that's why he was shocked here to know that they didn't have kyuubi yet http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/561/10..

    Izuna was shocked t nagato's betrayal and moved the plan to next stage..decided that he will revive madara himself after taking nagato's eyes http://www.mangareader.net/93-458-17...apter-453.html...
    but kabuto ET resurrected him before Izuna got his hands on rinnegan...once a person gets resurrected he cannot be revived again..http://www.mangareader.net/93-50180-...apter-490.html

    Izuna had no intentions of betraying madara it was just kabuto trying to manipulte madara(orochimru's speciality inherited by kabuto) using the fact that he was edo-tensei resuurected and not revived by nagato as planned and due which he was in shock when he learned that.http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/559/2...
    and this 561 just confirmed the following facts for my theory madara knew each other shared the plan and his time of madra's revival....looks the oncoming chapters support my theory even more.
    and one last thing for the god's sake read my theory properly before u criticize it....

    ---------- Post added at 11:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear View Post
    2. Kyuubi may have been reacting to Madara's chakra or will, not necessarily the eye. Anyway, what you're saying about Tobi's eye is in contradiction with what we've recently learned about Madara's eyes. Madara said he unlocked the Rinnegan (and we've seen that). Why would Tobi go after Nagato's Rinnegan, if he already possessed Madara's eyes (which are also Rinnegan) - it doesn't make sense. Plus, Tobi told Konan that Nagato's eyes were originally Madara's. So, these are facts that contradict this part of your theory.

    3. Tobi's left Sharingan did not look lightless. It displayed an activated 3 tomoe. I think the reason Tobi kept the left eye covered is the same reason why Danzo and Kakashi kept their Sharingan covered. To be specific, the left side of Tobi's body is not Uchiha, it is something else - perhaps fully Zetsu material.

    4. No direct evidence here. There is no current link between Izuna and Tobi's space/time tech. First, you are saying that EMS can develop a spacetime tech if transplanted (which there is no evidence supporting this). And secondly, you are saying that Izuna received Madara's EMS (and there is also no evidence supporting this). To much of a stretch to make the connection to Izuna. It's much simpler (Occam's Razor) to make the connection directly between Tobi's spacetime tech to the only thing similar to it - Kakashi's Kamui.

    5. As I said before, this doesn't point to Izuna. Madara could Tsukiyomi anybody then.
    2. he only awakened it for few moments only then it went back to EMS.
    3.i said almost dim not lightless.. if you assume he was revived after his eye's planted in zetsu u could tell why he had better control on left than right eye which was always active like kakashi..
    4.. what i'm saying is that when MS eye transfered into his brother they tend to gain new light EMS. since he was revived with his brother's eyes he is supposed to have his own set of EMS eyes.. but since he was in non uchiha body/chakra yet has his soul/mind so he didn't awoke EMS instead he gained this teleportation abilty which can be considered as EMS level compared to kakahi's MS ability....
    5.he could but if it's anyone else there's no way he no way he can awaken EMS level teleportation ability...it would not make any sense..
    this EMS level teleportation ability only makes sense for izuna(in zetsu's body) or any other shinobi in someone else body(e.g,orochimaru) recieves his brother's MS
    Last edited by khaja_200923; October 29, 2011 at 02:33 AM.
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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Uchiha Izuna is Tobi - My ultimate theory

    Quote Originally Posted by khaja_200923 View Post
    Tobi is izuna uchiha revived by madara using gedo rinne tensei before his final moments My theory:

    madara didn't die in the battle he left the konoha and went into hiding with hashirama's living tissue and cultivated it to grow into giant tissue flower.
    he remained silent and started collecting sharings(more like grave robbing) in two shinobi wars which he may have instigated himself.which was continued by tobi in third shinobi war.http://www.mangareader.net/93-49211-...apter-488.html
    it took him while to research on how to create white zetsu's(with no mind,life) and then madara absorbed hashirama's cell into his body not completely in a similar but more effective way than danzo but still he was unable to awaken rinnegan.
    By this time at the beginning of third shinobi war he was near death due to old age so in desperate measure to leave behind his will madara used izanagi to create black and white zetsu with their own life and mind. http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html and lost the amaterasu eye.
    he continued experimenting on zetsu's body by planting them with stolen sharingan's they were still unable to awaken rinnegan.
    So he thought about doing living human experimentation on senju's children's which was unthinkable on his part because konoha was strong and he risked exposing his identity.So then he found about uzumaki lineage in whirlpool country(eddy village) which was already on the brink of destruction.he put a few uzumaki families under his genjutsu to take refuge i into rain village(war torn village) where it was easy for him to move.
    He experimented on various uzumaki families by giving them sharingans(stolen ones) and killed their family members in fornt of them to bring out the emotional trigger to awaken rinnegan and he finally succeeded at nagato uzumaki.and left him with it to develop them. NOTE:rinnegan is awakened here with the feelings of loss of someone close and strong hatred to convert sharingan to rinnegan in sage's body. madara whole experiment was this search exact emotions for awakening.
    this time he was able to awaken rinnegan after placing himself under tsukiyomi to undergo the same emotions as nagato.
    but the rinnegan was awakened only for few moments during this few moments time.he used gedo rinne tensei to bring back his dead brother Izuna back to life into zetsu's/hashirama's clone body.
    He explained his plans including moons eye plan to his brother and gave him his(the one madara was born with) almost lightless MS.believing that it will gain light EMS upon finding new host in his brother.
    Izuna after transplanting them didn't receive a new light(EMS) like his brother because he was revived in ZETSU'S body/chakra not his own but the soul/mind was still his own.. instead of his own set of EMS eye's he obtained unparalleled Trans-dimensional teleportation technique which can be only obtained when non-uchiha obtains and develops the sharingan.(like kakashi gained trans-dimensional ability by awakening MS).
    despite being in others body he awakend a new ability because the soul/mind was still izuna's.
    despite being shown so many MS user no one else had trans-dimensional abilities beacause they had uchiha's bodies.

    what i'm saying is that when MS eye transfered into his brother they tend to gain new light EMS. since he was revived with his brother's eyes he is supposed to have his own set of EMS eyes.. but since he was in non uchiha body/chakra yet has his soul/mind so he didn't awoke EMS instead he gained this teleportation abilty which can be considered as EMS level compared to kakashi's MS ability....
    this EMS level teleportation ability only makes sense for izuna(in zetsu's body/chakra) or any other shinobi in someone else body/chakra(half e.gchimaru had others body but he had his own chakra) recieves his brother's MS eye's

    madara died shortly after the use of gedo rinne tensei.

    now izuna took madara's tsukiyomi eye(or his own eye the one izuna was born with) as per instructed by madara before his death into his right eye.
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html now he had EMS right eye(his own) and MS (his brother's alomst blind eye).
    izuna was unable to awaken the rinnegan himself much less unable use his brothers left eye(except use it as sacrifice for izanagi)..
    Izuna saw his brothers plans in detail and the history by the self triggered tsukiyomi on izuna setup by madara.now Izuna had the same hatred towards shinobi and same goals as madara.
    Izuna who followed his brothers back and competed against became one with his idealism's to the point he lost himself in madara.they always had the same ideology to begin with most likely the same plans for future.
    Izuna also used izanagi but to change his appearances and his chakra to that of his madara form after absorbing his dead brother madara's chakra(before changing form he looked like zetsu with sharingan)
    ..white zetsu also obtained this ability to transform shape and chakra.Izuna replaced blinded left eye(used for Izanagi) by another MS eye of his brother.

    Facts supporting my theory:
    1.we know for sure that tobi's body is like that of zetsu from his various fights.http://www.mangareader.net/93-41585-...apter-475.html
    2.here kyubi identified this tobi's eye as the same which controlled him during the fight between madara and hashirama http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html. so his right eye is madara's(the one Izuna was born with)
    3.here tobi has 2nd sharingan with almost no light (to the point he only used mask with one eye hole the same eye in which madara almost lost light) and used it as a sacrifice for izanagi.http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-...apter-510.html so here we can say he has madara's dull eye or else why bother with such a dull eye when you got reserves.http://www.mangareader.net/93-49211-...apter-488.html
    4.tobi's trans-dimensional teleportation ability far more powerful than kakashi's MS trans-dimensional ability can be signified as EMS ability.
    so now According to my theory when izuna in zetsu's body was planted with madara's eye's(the one his madara was born with). He(Izuna) was expected to achieve new light but since he was not in his own body he didn't recieved new light his both eye's were almost lightless. but instead he got trans-dimensional teleportation ability (EMS level instead of ems)....
    if it was anyone else other than izuna then there is no reason to expect a new light or an ability for all it matters...because EMS tranfer occurs between brothers which is the ugly truth of chiha clan..
    Now Izuna had his brother's eye's in his both eyes and now According to my theory uses a eye for izanagi to change change his shape and chakra into that from zetsu to madara after absorbing his chakra.(which is also gained by other whit zetsu's) and Izuna takes madara's tsukiyomi eye(only working eye according to theory) into his right eye..
    5.it's also known that tobi has appearance similar to madara and his chakra similar that of an uchiha or anyone sensor type could've picked that he is not uchiha especially since they are also known for their unparalled quality in chakra.http://www.mangareader.net/93-403-18...apter-398.html
    Now ending up with Izuna's eye in right eye and madara's eye in left eye(the one they were born with)
    and shape and chakra that of madara. so this facts pretty much state that my theory fits right in and tobi can be none other than izuna uchiha


    1.madara planned on reviving himself with nagato's gedo rinne tensei by Tobi's help after the collecting of bijuu's is completedhttp://www.mangareader.net/93-454-1/...apter-449.html
    and that's why the first thing madara talked about was nagato thinking he was revived but was shocked to learn that he was resurrected by ET.http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/559/2
    2.Tobi was also shocked when nagato deceived and him and used rinne tensei for naruto which he was supposed to used for him to revive madara which was the basic reason to give rinnegan to nagato but he had a move forward the plan by reviving madara himself after obtaining the rinnegan from nagato's corpse so he searched desperately for konan by using zetsu http://www.mangareader.net/93-458-17...apter-453.html.
    3.but here kabuto got first in resurrecting madara before tobi could get his hands on rinnegan.
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-50180-...apter-490.html at that moment Tobi almost pissed in his pants.
    4.

    ---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

    i have covered and explained many things like
    1)black/white zetsu origin
    2)uzumaki survivors fate in rain village
    3)tobi's both sharingan eyes
    4)kakashi's/tobi's trans-dimensional MS/EMS eye technique
    5)madara's EMS+Mokuton+rinnegan
    6)nagato's importance for madara and tobi.
    7)white zetsu shape and chakra transforming ability etc.,
    and i think for sure none of these are yet to be explained by kishimoto...heh..heh.heh.. looks like my observation can be compared with shikamaru nara...
    (it doesn't make me happy at all stupid)
    tobi is izuna guys, do you remember when "tobi" was talking to sasuke after he beat itachi and he clenched his fist when he brought up the fact that people think madara stole his brothers eyes so he wouldnt go blind madara wouldnt be mad about that but izuna would because he knows he gave madara his eyes he was mad that people slander'd his brothers name

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted gnut's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Uchiha Izuna is Tobi - My ultimate theory

    Quote Originally Posted by ShisuiOfTheFlicker View Post
    tobi is izuna guys, do you remember when "tobi" was talking to sasuke after he beat itachi and he clenched his fist when he brought up the fact that people think madara stole his brothers eyes so he wouldnt go blind madara wouldnt be mad about that but izuna would because he knows he gave madara his eyes he was mad that people slander'd his brothers name
    agreed...but he may have also been upset over the fact that people may have thought...why someone would actually give/do something willingly for madara....
    But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie. Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Uchiha Izuna is Tobi - My ultimate theory

    uhm,not a bad theory,but that's quite impossible,as tobi's body is made of zetsu goo,so it can't be izuna's real body. tobi is msot likely a piece of madara,that's why even in front of zetsu,created by either him or madara, tobi went on adfirming he was madara. that's what tobi emant in vol.48 about the gedo rinne tensei to revive madara,who in vol.59 stated that their plan was to revive him through the gedo rinne.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member khaja_200923's Avatar
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    Re: Uchiha Izuna is Tobi - My ultimate theory

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    uhm,not a bad theory,but that's quite impossible,as tobi's body is made of zetsu goo,so it can't be izuna's real body. tobi is msot likely a piece of madara,that's why even in front of zetsu,created by either him or madara, tobi went on adfirming he was madara. that's what tobi emant in vol.48 about the gedo rinne tensei to revive madara,who in vol.59 stated that their plan was to revive him through the gedo rinne.
    (it's possible!)I already mentioned it in the theory that it was izuna's soul which was revived by gedo rinne tensei in zetsu's body(not his own decomposed body).
    (Note: Gedo Rinne Tensei is a jutsu which only brings soul back from the netherworld not reviving a person)
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