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Thread: Bleach 472 Discussion

  1. #91
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner scavanger007's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Tsukishima can affect the reality of living , non-living thing he cuts, so what if he stabs himself and insert a memory that he was never stabbed/his heart was never damaged by Byakuya? That would be overkill though :P

  2. #92
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity elitefox's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ok, this might turn out to be a somewhat long post even for a chapter which was an absurd and remarkable as this one.

    Rukia deserves the first comment. She got stabbed but considering the weapon riruka was using it does not seem like the wound was that severe considering how resilient spiritual bodies generally are. Interestingly, I don't think it is such a mystery was happened. Riruka has shown the ability to make people go into things she deems cute. It would make sense her ability allows her to go into things she deems cute (we could say we saw that in the flashback when she was in the box she trapped that guy she liked) as well so right now it would make sense riruka was by all intents and purposes inside rukia. Of course, it is interesting she deems rukia cute lol.

    Now, the fight between byakuya and tsukishima was epic but not nearly as much as it was plain nonsensical. There is so much wrong with this fight that it is not even funny. The first part worth comenting on is tsukishima breaking byakuya's sword with his own fullbring. WTH? It was weird enough that tsukishima could keep up with byakuya in terms of sheer speed without any explanation whatsoever but breaking his sword is plain absurd. I know tsukishima knew absolutely everything about how byakuya fought but that does not explain how he made up for she sheer difference in speed. Tsukishima had enough trouble with fullbring ichigo, are we supposed to believe byakuya is that slow after all we have seen? Then there is the fact that tsukishima was not grossly overwhelmed by the sheer amount of petals of byakuya's bankai. WTH? Byakuya here showed the ability to cover a HUGE area with his petals, even if tsukishima knows there is an area where the petals won't go to it still makes no sense that he avoided them. There is something which I found interesting though.

    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v51/c472/6.html

    What did tsukishima mean when he said he improved by the same amount? Is it plausible that his ability extents to the point where his own power is affected by the memories he inserts into people? This would perhaps explain why he was so strong. He had the means to surprise byakuya by acquiring information from his zampakuto and setting a trap but in turn what ultimately would have made the trick to even the field would be to insert himself into byakuya's memories and increase his own power by training for hundreds of years with a shinigami. Up to now he would have only met humans so his training with them could only get him to be as strong as such humans but the shinigami detail would allow for a lot more. I do think that inserting memories into the building they were fighting on would contribute to his speed.

    Now, the last part of the fight has some very remarkable features in itself. Byakuya won using the most basic thing you can do in a fight, improvise. It is quite remarkable that byakuya can be that creative in the spur of the moment, it shows that his versatility is by all intents and purposes never ending. Since tsukishima knew each and every move byakuya had ever thought of it does kinda made sense byakuya would win by coming up with something right on the spot though, I think that much was expected (I kinda did). I was still very surprised by how crude byakuya ultimately was. It was a simple punch with petals but still. The way in byakuya won does still have incredibly absurd features though. Pages before we saw tsukishima keeping up with byakuya's speed to the point where he could counter his shikai, keep up with his swordsmanship and break his sword and ultimately keep up with byakuya's bankai, something even a espada had trouble with. The next page we see byakuya jumping in and basically one shot tsukishima with a fistful of petals. If tsukishima could keep up with everything byakuya did until that point, why in the world was this a problem? Now, if we assume tsukishima derived an inherent boost from his memories with tsukishima it would perhaps make sense that byakuya using that was not in his memory would rid tsukishima of his boost right?

    Now, given what we have seen of tsukishima I have trouble imagining him dying here. There is something off with that guy, I don't quite expect him to just die. I honestly think the next time we see them we are going to see byakuya contemplating ( lets face it, byakuya with his awesomeness does not stare, he contemplates) tsukishima's body and suddenly a weird non human reiatsu comes out of the body and we are left with a clifhanger with byakuya in disbelief. It really can't be that easy to kill tsukishima if the gingo scenario already suggest an undead state of sorts on their part.

    lol if that is the situation then cut aizen and cut capt yamamoto and you are the most bad ass character ever

    But there is even better way to fight, removed all his fight memories, and replace with something screwed ^_^ then the enemy is screwed big time
    CLEANED

  3. #93
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    ^Tsukishima cannot do that though, at least from what I gathered. Since tsukishima "inserts" himself it means that the memories of the target in themselves do not change but rather tsukishima is added to them. Based on what we saw he can indeed take the place of others though, perhaps if he replaces a particular person in its entirety he can effectively make someone forget a loved one.
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  4. #94
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Grekaosangel's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    kkck

    About part of your very lengthy post a page back. I think the reason Tsukishima was caught by Byakuya's attack with the petals was because he gave him the opening to use Kido. Which is what he thought Byakuya was gonna try next. He didn't think he would do what he did and caught him off-guard.

    Serves him right though, as creepy as he was, his arrogance was annoying. I rather enjoyed the fight though, if it really is over. And I'm curious to know more about Ginjo's abilities and what happened to Riruka and Rukia.

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  6. #95
    Optimus Prime 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Grekaosangel brought up a good point, perhaps Tsukishima expected a kido attack from Byakuya. He raised his hand as if he will cast a kido spell right after Tsukishima dared him to use kido against him. It must have been a big surprise for Tsukishima.

    I don't think we can estimate Tsukishima's speed & strength based on Ichigo's FB because Ginjou said merging FB powers with shinigami powers would make someone transcendent and Tsukishima confirmed that Ichigo had successfully merged these powers when he faced him. As hard to believe as it may seem, Ichigo's FB may be stronger than Byakuya. Considering that Ichigo's FB provided Ginjou with a power boost which made him considerably stronger (even after he gave a part of this power to his friends), it's not out of realm of possibilities. We need to see the true extent of Ginjou's powers to make a more accurate estimate though.

    In that context, Tsukishima may be fast enough to dodge Byakuya's bankai petals, especially after he learned everything about Byakuya. Even Renji countered some of Byakuya's moves because he knew about them and Tsukishima is certainly much stronger than Renji of the SS arc. Storywise, Tsukishima has to be stronger than Chad and Ishida who had at least high-tier VC-level strength before the time skip. Only a captain-class person may have that amount of power, which justifies Tsukishima's good performance.

    As a side note, it seems Kubo made a slip. Using hands to control the SK petals makes them three times faster, not twice.
    Last edited by Miyagi; November 11, 2011 at 05:58 AM.

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  8. #96
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member g0dzax's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    @kkck
    Sometimes logic just doesn't apply to Bleach.You just gotta sit back and enjoy it without thinking too much,'cause Bleach certainly isn't a logical manga lol.

    On another note,who's going to heal Byakuya and everyone else's wounds ? Since Orihime was KO by Urahara,I think that Rukia is the only possible one who can heal them,though she too is KO.Maybe Unohana is there hiding in the shadows?Because I can't see anyone else healing their wounds(on the spot,not after they return to SS).

  9. #97
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member union98's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by g0dzax View Post
    @kkck
    Sometimes logic just doesn't apply to Bleach.You just gotta sit back and enjoy it without thinking too much,'cause Bleach certainly isn't a logical manga lol.

    On another note,who's going to heal Byakuya and everyone else's wounds ? Since Orihime was KO by Urahara,I think that Rukia is the only possible one who can heal them,though she too is KO.Maybe Unohana is there hiding in the shadows?Because I can't see anyone else healing their wounds(on the spot,not after they return to SS).
    If Tessai was captain of the kido corps and Hachi was his lieutenant, why can't Tessai heal them? I'm just wondering. I don't think we need to see them get healed though. How often do we see people get healed after battles. The only time you really see people get healed in bleach is if they're about to fight another battle. Usually it's an aside or assumed that Unohana, Orihime, or you see them in Squad 4 barracks.

    Byakuya has already made his final statement about "Enjoying the fight" which signals to me that the actual fight is over. There will more likely be an exchange of words and perhaps Tsuki will try and do one last mind trick on Byakuya to perhaps make him attack himself or something...like inserting into Byakuya that he is the brother of Byakuya's late wife or something, IDK. But aside from that and a Tsukishima flashback, I can't see anymore happening in this battle.

    If Riruka is indeed inside of Rukia, what'd be the point? If she kills Rukia while she's inside, I'm sure she'd probably die too. And Rukia's in no shape nor is she strong enough to use to attack the other court guard squad members. And if push comes to shove, I'm sure someone would just bind her like Byakuya did in HM. Also, wasn't there some kind of weird time limit thing with her power or something, like if the guy was inside the bear too long, it'd be permanent or was that because the eye patch guy was involved when Ichigo was training with the teddy bear in the dollhouse?
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member vagabond87's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/433/16 here they my ava guy says that they can transfer powers from FB to subst soul reapers...
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/454/16 here they say that Tsuki is broken in some way and they will fix him soon- maby thats why Ginjou couldnt gave Ichigos FB to Tsukishima? Maby he turned hollow more than the others? Mayby Im seeing things but he seems more Hollow-like than any other fullbringer and even if I like last chapter a lot.. I cant say that Tsukishima is dead and gone.

  11. #99
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    @ Miyagi Its twice as fast, that a mistranslation from earlier chapters.

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  13. #100
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member noVaLue's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/433/16 here they my ava guy says that they can transfer powers from FB to subst soul reapers...
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/454/16 here they say that Tsuki is broken in some way and they will fix him soon- maby thats why Ginjou couldnt gave Ichigos FB to Tsukishima? Maby he turned hollow more than the others? Mayby Im seeing things but he seems more Hollow-like than any other fullbringer and even if I like last chapter a lot.. I cant say that Tsukishima is dead and gone.
    We'll fix you(Ginjo) soon ... because Ginjo was under "hypnosis"

  14. #101
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member vagabond87's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by noVaLue View Post
    We'll fix you(Ginjo) soon ... because Ginjo was under "hypnosis"
    Well... and? I dont get your point for now so thats why I ask..
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/459/4
    For me hypnosis made FB and Ginjou enemies of Tsukishima and nothing else. But I might have it wrong
    Last edited by vagabond87; November 11, 2011 at 11:31 AM.

  15. #102
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I'll fully admit I'm in denial about Tsukishima. He's much more interesting then Ginjuou and the majority of Fullbringers, it's sad to see him gone.
    It makes sense to be in denial here, though...I remember after Kenpachi cut the old guy, I couldn't think that he was OHKO'd that easily...so if that could be denied, there's no reason to think Tsukishima is definitely gone, hahaha

    We'll obviously see his flashback, but I'm curious as to why Ginjou didn't give him a part of Ichigo's power. I'd also like to know why he and Ginjou treated each other as equals, considering how hax Tsuki's ability is, lol (really? if he cut Kenpachi, would he be able to fight Kenpachi? if he cut Yamamoto, would he gain centuries of training? That's a frightening thought)
    Avoiding debates with people below a certain level of English comp.

  16. #103
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/454/16 here they say that Tsuki is broken in some way and they will fix him soon- maby thats why Ginjou couldnt gave Ichigos FB to Tsukishima? Maby he turned hollow more than the others? Mayby Im seeing things but he seems more Hollow-like than any other fullbringer and even if I like last chapter a lot.. I cant say that Tsukishima is dead and gone.
    You're reading a different manga?

    ---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    Well... and? I dont get your point for now so thats why I ask..
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/459/4
    For me hypnosis made FB and Ginjou enemies of Tsukishima and nothing else. But I might have it wrong
    They never said that the others were cut by Tsukishima ... only Ginjo wished like that ... so can play a little with Ichigo's feelings

  17. #104
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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    UchihaHunter
    Thousand years of experience couldn't/shouldn't enable his human body to get that much stronger, there must be a limit to this.
    Firm but Fair

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    Re: Bleach 472 Discussion / 473 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by g0dzax View Post
    @kkck
    Sometimes logic just doesn't apply to Bleach.You just gotta sit back and enjoy it without thinking too much,'cause Bleach certainly isn't a logical manga lol.
    .
    Truer words have never been spoken

    On the side note, I certainly hope there's no Unohana hiding in the shadows to inflict some unexpected healing on anyone. That'd be... no I don't even want to go down that street.

    The whole Rukia-Riruka business is so eh, questionable that I'd like to have a decent explanation. Not logical in the generally accepted sense of the word, sure, but at least it should follow the mysterious, crooked logic of Bleach lol. Right now, I don't even have any plausible versions of what's happened with the two of them.

    P.S.: Do Urahara and Isshin really have anything to do with this arc, I wonder? Or was their only purpose to call upon the Shinigami to ensure Ichigo didn't accidentally get killed? =)
    There's no such thing as too much sleep.

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