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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
He's awesome and always was, he was hotter before though cause I prefer 'em like 12-14 and eager to please. My present boyfriends a bit older than that but he's actually very similar. I'm kind of like Clare too IRL even though I call myself faintsmile. (My real name is Clare too, so guess why I first watched and read Claymore lol.)
Anyway the female fandom for boys like Raki or Allen Walker confirms what girls go for isn't the 'bad boy' traits in itself, but things they share with 'bad boys' like confidence. People think men are either nice guy betas or bad boy alphas but that isn't the case, alphas are protectors and betas are providers. If you're a fairly independant omega female like me then the protective alpha is better, and the best way to find an alpha is to find one as young as possible. And the best thing to do then would be to have him knock you up once you're sure he's in love to secure the relationship.
And boys evaluate one another differently to the way girls do to check for threats to their own sexual monopoly over females, which is why boys saw pre-timeskip Raki as a little kid and a crybaby, whilst girls saw devotion and the emergence of extremely manly protective traits when he started protecting Clare. Its all about the way people interpret others and its why the different ways people see the same character is interesting.
I feel the same for Raki when I first saw him - a poor fellow that lost everything and in need of someone to take care of him in the meantime.
I felt the same for Clare, a poor girl who gave even her Humanity to protect Humans and to reach her goal. She needed someone to take are of her too and to show her that there is more in life then simple revenge - and Raki and her comrades showed her that.
Off course the most people saw two things in Clare - how badass she is with her sword and how large breast she have ( my friend who is deeply religious by the way commented about Clare's breast when he first saw her ). In the end it really comes to individual and how we feel when it comes to that.
But yes Brother Coa you're absolutely right. Although when it comes down to it, it is all in line with the shounen theme, no matter how 'typical' this theme may be, I still find it admirable to learn from. What's more, I personally don't find anything wrong with how Yagi-sensei presented Raki's character. In fact, I really really like him. As with many characters in the series, he has his own cool moment, which literally makes me say "damn, that's too damn cool" in my seat :P
The only reason Clare became a Claymore was to kill Priscilla, as revenge for the only one she did care about, which was Teresa.
Note she initially told Raki that her reason for killing the Yoma was simply to finish a "job", not to provide revenge for him.
However, as her story continues, Clare gradually develops some more feelings of compassion that allows her personality to stray away from that of the typical Claymore: cold-hearted, emotionless, silver-eyed killers, or so the general population of humans dub them.
I agree that most people generally view Clare and pretty much all the Claymores as "sexy", and often are much more aware of their breasts and sexual properties rather than the more evasive personality and story plot.
But then again, I'd say that's the reason these forums are here; for people who are more concerned about character development and plot analysis rather than breasts and cute faces within the manga/anime.
Sadly, however, I'm pretty sure the breasts and whatsoever eye candy that Yagi drew in was simply an incentive to lure anime-lovers into loving this anime.
Essentially, this anime is directed for an audience of ages 12-18, assuming the typical interests of society.
Even more so, it's quite likely that 45% of the current audience all over Korea/Japan/scan-lated America were lured by the breasts and "sexy Claymore women", another 45% for the medieval bad-ass Claymore with claymore (the sword/weapon) story, and then 10% with genuine interest in such an intricate plot.
(Perhaps a hint of sarcasm there haha xD).
But referring more to the larger discussion, it's much likely that girls will love Raki, since by the American stereotype, boys think teen girls are "hot and sexy", girls think little or teen boys are "cute and handsome".
So of course it makes sense that girls think Raki-"chan" is pretty awesome.
Finally, you have to consider how age is factored into this.
I'm sure the cuteness of Raki vanishes and becomes more handsome-fall-in-love after the seven year time skip.
If all males were loved, why isn't Isley pounced on by so many fangirls instead of having his Awakened Body being continually exclaimed as "sick!", "epic!", "likeabaws!" by boys who are combat-crazy?
And even at the beginning she was out of the ordinary and we could see that she cared about Humans even if her primary goal was revenge. You can see that in chapter 2 where she decide to go on ahead so that few more lives could be saved.
My point was: yes, she joined mostly because of revenge but partially she joined to protect Humans form misfortune that she had to go trough.
Besides, even if he's weak, Raki won't hold back from protecting Clare. He knows he is a mere human and his power is non-existent when compared to that of Ophelia, for example; yet, he's determined to protect the ones he loves. Although, he's been saved on numerous occasion and he's a crybaby, nobody can deny that Raki is brave, fearless. I don't know how many teens, after meeting an odd person (Clare, in the beginning of the manga), will go up to her and start a friendly conversation. Maybe, some of you might point out that's pure stupidity. It might be true. But then again...aren't courageous people stupid to some extent?
Lastly, I appreciate Raki's fascination with the unknown and his desire to become stronger (overcoming his weaknesses and enhancing physical strength). Besides, a curious mind ready to explore the unknown is a major turn on for women (at least for me ~ if other ladies around here think the opposite, please feel free to chip in ~)
Last edited by Ancy; February 22, 2013 at 07:04 AM. Reason: added some smilies :3c
Even more so, all the other Claymores who were part of Clare's friendship circle generally had a post-determined reason for becoming a Claymore.
Clare is the first girl who willingly submitted to becoming a Claymore, but this was because she had pre-determined reasons for doing so.
However, I do recall her friend Elena saying that becoming a Claymore would make her stronger, or so she thought.
After the operation and transformation into a Claymore, it seems that the orphan girls each had a specific and perhaps even common reason to keep fighting and doing their duty.
While some reasons are directly mentioned, others are not.
Some of the more obvious reasons include Alicia and Beth's mindless duty to keep training hard and practicing their Soul Link in order to conquer the Abyssal Ones, Deneve's goal to "live on", Ophelia's goal to slay Priscilla, Teresa's betrayal for Clare, and Undine's goal to remember her friend through her dual wield combat style.
A less opaque motivation can be Isley's brief but meaningful and significant short-lived temporary family; he mentioned that he wanted only just some more time to live with his makeshift "kin", and thus sent away Raki and Priscilla in order to take on the Abyssal Feeders alone.
So, what's Raki's goal?
Of course it all makes sense now.
"To live on and protect Clare" is Raki's solid goal, as his gregarious personality proclaims more than often throughout the manga.
Perhaps this ultimately factors into why so many girls love Raki; it's a direct mirror of Teresa's promise to Clare (and everyone loved Teresa so much because of that), only it was never made such an apparent theme as the former.
Everyone loves a hero/heroine, and Raki might just be the one in the eyes of those fangurls.
Raki's willingness to train with former number 1 Claymore Isley is similar to that of the Ghosts' strenuous training to extremes.
Both are motivated by the common desire to become stronger and achieve their goals.
For Raki, again, it is to become strong enough to protect Clare instead of being protected by her.
(Notice how the manga closely shadows this statement when they have Raki slay a Yoma after the seven year timeskip.
When the manga originally began, Raki was unable to get revenge for his parents and had to rely on Clare to slay the Yoma.
And perhaps note where Raki slayed the Yoma? In his birthtown of course. The manga seemingly wishes to convey that after the seven year timeskip, Raki has become a much more successful person, and that his motivation ultimately paid off in the slaying of the Yoma.
(laughs at Priscilla in that chapter)
I also agree that Raki had such a genuine interest in Clare and the Claymores.
And I also want to note that Raki was never interested because Clare was a female; when Clare came in, he was surprised to see that the Claymore was a woman, and never knew that all Claymores were women.
Also notice how all the townsfolk called Clare a "monster" and were terrified when she glanced over to them. Unlike such townsfolk, Raki was an extremely curious and keen boy, which is typical of the pre-teen child (especially a boy).
All these qualities allowed Raki to become associated with Clare and develop such a strong bond.
In terms of the anime;
It seems like the hate for Raki is because he gets in the way very often.
It seems like an all-out battle between evil and good as well.
There is complete sympathy for Teresa and Clare, yet no sympathy for Priscilla.
Now Raki is stuck here in the middle. Unfortunately, so many people hate on Priscilla to even attempt to begin understanding the rather very strong bond developed between Raki and her as well.
So when Raki intervenes right before Clare is about to kill Priscilla in Episode 26 of the Anime, the strong affection and admiration that the biased audience has for Clare obviously morphs their view of Raki into something immature, stupid, and hindering.
And since that is the nature of humans; to always root for good and barely sympathize with the evil, at least when we are not forced to do so by the author/director, the typical audience does not regard Priscilla's extremely troubled past at all.
Therefore, the audience might regard Raki as simply being "evil" for developing such a deep relationship with Priscilla as well.
And from there we can see where all that "1h8uRakee!!!!11!" comes from.
Last edited by Whirlzap; February 22, 2013 at 04:15 PM.
Just to add a brief comment.
Isley looks a little too much like Galatea for many of us to lust over.
Whilst Clare is grateful to have Raki. Its up to you whether you interpret that as 'true love', to me it seemed purer and hotter when they were obviously attracted in Rabona because their relationship doesn't have the sentimental nonsense.
Someone like Clare has a combination of abusive life history and constitutional aloofness that makes her hard to identify with. Sort of like if Haruhi Suzumiya had been abused since childhood and yet recieved enough kindness in time to develop something more like normal empathy, before having that source of kindness snatched away by fate - with the emphasis upon 'more like'. She will always be odd and her emotions will be weird, even to other Claymores. So there's no higher emotion there only a feeling of gratitude, attachment issues to certain individuals, and loneliness without a desire for 'normal' friendships or inclusion the way most people would feel. She can only acquire feelings of gratitude for another, very grudgingly.
You can compare Clare's loneliness to Rorschach's and, viewed in that way, Yagi does a very good job of portraying her as a vulnerable teenage girl the audience can sympathise with. Someone like her is extremely tough to portray sensitively, especially while anvilling the point she could erupt into a monster at any time, because the explosive temper is always just under the surface.
Anyways the attraction isn't that he's 'the type trying to understand her soul' - he just accepts her as she is, as you would a cat. There's a difference.
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But seriously if you 'got' what girls like, you should be good at getting and holding onto girls yourself.
Last edited by faintsmile1992; February 24, 2013 at 09:11 AM.
It's true that Clare is an introvert person, but that does not mean she is incapable of higher emotions or feelings (if that's the case why the heck is she trying to kill Priscilla, or searched for Raki for SEVEN YEARS??). What I'm trying to say here is that Clare experiences normal feelings, but she's just not showing them as normal people or other Claymores would do.
On a different note ~ to be honest, I accept and love my cat deeply, but I'm certain that her meows won't turn me back when I'm about to die.
@Whirlzap. Indeed, Raki is the direct mirror of Teresa's promise to Clare. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Wanting to destroy one's enemies, wanting to be protected and to protect, wanting to be with a mate (and therefore procreate), are pretty basic emotions. Higher emotions require 'looking inwards', a concept I can't understand as if you can't guess. Altruism is also a lower emotion when it is simply responding to distress signals from others as a way to shut off something that reminds us of our own suffering because we don't like to see it. People assume such altruism as related to higher human emotion as opposed to some bestial evolutionary past, but even insects will do this. And cats certainly can. So do I, not as often as Clare but still Yagi needs to offset the appearance of the same impulsive streak that makes her a successful killer. The presentation of the character is so skillfully done that people don't want to admit her positive side is the exact same thing as her destructive killer instinct.
But they risk going back in to wake you up if there's a fire.Quote:
One more thing you must take into account regarding Claymores and their emotions - they are warriors who sacrificed their own Humanity to protect Humanity.
That also means that they sacrifice most of their Human emotions to protect Humans, so it should not be so strange if they act almost emotionless in front of other Humans.
The only Claymore who acted "relaxed" in front of Humans is Helen, even when she was not drunk.
Anyways, this thread is about Raki. Thus, let's get back on topic!
"Disinhibition entails proneness toward impulse-control problems, including lack of planfulness and foresight, impaired regulation of affect and urges, insistence on immediate gratification, and deficient behavioral restraint. Related concepts include externalizing behavior (Achenbach & Edelbrock, 1978; Krueger et al., 2002), disinhibitory psychopathology (Gorenstein & Newman, 1980; Sher & Trull, 1994), and low inhibitory control (Kochanska, Murray, & Coy, 1997). In personality terms, disinhibition represents the nexus of impulsivity and negative emotionality (Krueger, 1999a; Sher & Trull, 1994), and it shows up behaviorally as irresponsibility, impatience, rapid action with negative consequences, alienation and distrust, volatile emotional displays including reactive aggression, untrustworthiness, proneness to drug and alcohol problems, and illicit and other norm-violating activities (Krueger, Markon, Patrick, Benning, & Kramer, 2007).2
"Boldness encompasses the capacity to remain calm and focused in pressured or threatening situations, rapid recovery from stressful events, high self-assurance and social efficacy, and a tolerance for unfamiliarity and danger. Terms related to boldness include fearless dominance (Benning, Patrick, Blonigen, et al., 2005), daringness, audacity, indomitability, resiliency (Block & Block, 1980), surgency (Cattell, 1947), and hardiness (Kobasa, 1979). In personality terms, boldness is the nexus of social dominance, low stress reactivity, and thrill/adventure seeking (Benning et al., 2003, Benning, Patrick, Blonigen, et al., 2005). Boldness manifests behaviorally as imperturbability, social poise, assertiveness, persuasiveness, bravery, and venturesomeness. Although it includes features that are essentially adaptive, boldness is also associated empirically (see below) with certain maladaptive proclivities (e.g., narcissism, thrill seeking, lack of empathy; Benning, Patrick, Blonigen, et al., 2005; Miller, Watts, & Jones, 2011)."
"Meanness describes a constellation of attributes including deficient empathy, disdain for and lack of close attachments with others, rebelliousness, excitement seeking, exploitativeness, and empowerment through cruelty. Related terms connected to specific operational measures include callousness (Frick, O’Brien, Wooton, & McBurnett, 1994), coldheartedness (Lilienfeld & Widows, 2005), and antagonism (Lynam & Derefinko, 2006). In personality terms, meanness resides midway between (high) dominance and (low) affiliation (Blackburn, 2006; Harpur et al., 1989). From this perspective, meanness can be viewed as agentic disaffiliation: a style in which individuals actively pursue valued goals without regard for the impact their actions have on others, or perhaps even with the explicit intent to cause harm. Meanness can be expressed in terms of arrogance, verbal derisiveness, defiance of authority, an absence of close personal relationships, aggressive competitiveness, physical cruelty toward people and animals, strategic aggression and exploitation of others, and destructive excitement seeking."
I'll probably get some flak for the meanness, but think back to the beginning and the strained relationship she had with Rubel and how she shoves people away. When she meets Raki she starts to develop personal bonds and then when they're separated and she's obsessed by revenge again, she slips back into her obsessive and destructive agentic disaffiliation again.
She is most definitely disinhibited, and other than lacking narcissistic personality traits she fits with boldness. Though I guess these are shounen hero traits. Either way its remarkable how she scores above average on all three without coming across negatively.
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Wow...just wow faintsmile1992... On what colleague do you go when you are this thorough on people's behavior and have access to such extensive material?
Good job posting all that, there are some very interesting thing in that post.
Clare is meanned and disinhibited because of what happened in her past - her family was murdered by yoma who used her as a toy until Teresa saved her, she was already scarred back them. And just when she was returning to normal Priscilla killed Teresa - in front of her. That was crucial period of time for her as she as person changed once again. Her body was full of hatred and she thought of nothing else but to kill her. Add to that the fact that nobody in her life beside Teresa and those few Human is that village where Teresa left her helped her. All other Humans in her life either didn't care or attacked her ( bandits ), so normally she would be anti-social because of that. She is heartless because she probably decided to keep all her pain for herself, probably not to be burden to anyone.
As for boldness... she probably got that from the beginning, she is insanely brave and has quite the temper when she is angry. She showed that from the very beginning when she followed Teresa even if she kicked her few times and threaten to kill her, she even attacked bandit who tried to rape her even if she knew that she doesn't have any chance against him. This is the trait I believe she carried from the very beginning.
To tell you the truth, I am surprised she is not psycho like Ophelia after all that happened to her. It's a bloody miracle she is only anti-social and heartless. I guess Raki is the one thing that will keep her on her path to Humanity, that is if they both survive this battle and stay together this time.