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Thread: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

  1. #46
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Yabe's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    Vermouth = Christ Vineyard and was found out later by Jodie & Conan that she had also disguised herself as her mother Sharon Vineyard (who's an old actress friend of Yukiko - Shinichi's mother. This was where Jodie revealed Vermouth's identity in the manga).

    So she's been a friend of Conan's mom for a long time that she should have been told of or seen Shinichi as a kid once, besides she also disguised herself as a murderer who Akai was after, but Ran & Shinichi happened to encounter with and even saved her life in the 'Golden Apple' flashback chapters - so Vermouth actually has known both the adult and the young Shinichi before.

    @Jath:

    DCTP has subbed and released movie 12 here. I have the tanks so I also could help you gather all those files related to the Black Org. in the manga - but I want 1 day to check and list the number of chapters though if you'd like my help

    @Sportgal1:

    C'mon, movies are really good you won't be disappointed. The storylines in the movies so far have been unrelated to the main plot in the manga - they're like those filler files, but the cases are much more great and exciting. I really recommend movie 10 'The Private Eyes' Requiem' for you (since you mentioned you missed Kaito Kidd). Watch it

    Btw, I also don't like Eisuke's character... I know his role served as a string for Conan & the FBI in finding the truth about Rena, but he had been kind of a tiresome string. Besides him, I love all the minor characters that have been introduced in the series so far though.

    ---

    EDIT:

    Here's the list of chapters (from the start) which are related to the Black Organization
    (I put the descriptive titles in too so that you could compare them with the anime episodes' titles - I believe they're pretty much the same names):

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by Yabe; November 15, 2008 at 06:56 AM.

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  3. #47
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Jath's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    @ Yabe

    Yeah thank you for the movie. The one place I usually get mine, national-anime.com, they don't have it yet the last time I checked. Granted it's been a bit. And if you don't mind could you? If I can be of assistance I can try my best to help you out too, I just want to check it all out because I know I haven't seen everything.

    @Sportgal1

    Yeah the movies aren't bad at all. I do like movie 10 too, it's pretty awesome.

    And yeah, I really don't like Eisuke either. He wasn't really one of my fans...

    "You are a 100 years too early to argue logically with ME......"

  4. #48
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Sportgal1's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    I don't know, maybe i'll give one of them a try. we'll see.

    New question: anyone think that the relationship between Gin and Sherry is weird? He really seems to have it in for her. He may just hate traitors, but it seems he has a deeper past with Sherry.

  5. #49
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Yabe's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    My first thought was that they probably had lover-like relationship with one another as Gin mentioned Sherry with a shot of her bare back - though after having watched him shot her for times it hit me as nothing positive might've gone between them in the Organization. Sherry's mentioned as a brain of the org. + she's got good-natured character in general which's the thing members of the Black Org. doesn't need. Moreover, Akemi was also Akai's lover when he disguished himself as Rye in the org., plus James said that Akai was able to get deep into the organization more through Sherry, so I think those are probably what've caused Gin to pay great interest on her so he could recall the exact colors of her hair and read her move, etc.

    Speak of Sherry, there was this scene I'm not sure whether or not Aoyama's already revealed the following words of her mother though.

    And Sherry seemed to personally be the target of Vermouth also. When Vermouth went with her plan to capture Sherry, Gin didn't know about it and from the Boss' email stating like "he prolly gave too much freedom to her" - I doubt that her following Sherry that time was the Boss' order. From Jodie's revelation about her, Vermouth should be around 40+ now but she's got such young appearance - what do you think that's caused from?

    The Black Org. seemed to need a lot of money doing some experiments with such pill that made the cells of some people altered that they're turned into the kids. Do you think perhaps there actually would be some sad reason involved the purpose of the big boss of the org., and maybe Vermouth also did put herself under some past experiment of the organization?
    Last edited by Yabe; November 14, 2008 at 07:50 AM.

  6. #50
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Luckas's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    Quote Originally Posted by Yabe View Post
    Vermouth = Christ Vineyard and was found out later by Jodie & Conan that she had also disguised herself as her mother Sharon Vineyard (who's an old actress friend of Yukiko - Shinichi's mother. This was where Jodie revealed Vermouth's identity in the manga).

    So she's been a friend of Conan's mom for a long time that she should have been told of or seen Shinichi as a kid once, besides she also disguised herself as a murderer who Akai was after, but Ran & Shinichi happened to encounter with and even saved her life in the 'Golden Apple' flashback chapters - so Vermouth actually has known both the adult and the young Shinichi before.
    You have incredible memory, see here.

    Unconsciousness is my destiny, my joy but also my desperation.

  7. #51
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Sportgal1's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    I really doubt that the BO has some good ultimate reason. In a shonen, if people kill for a good reason they always look sorta sad. This manga is over 600 chapters, you think that there would've been at least some foreshadowing if something like that was to happen. I just have this natural dislike for Vermouth, so hope she doesn't end up being a hero. Hang, draw and quarter etc...

    I think part of the reason that Gin hates her is because of akemi and akai, but there was probably some sort of personal relationship. I thought at first they might be siblings/cousins, but now i doubt. Then the naked back pic would be awfully strange. Sherry doesn't seem to have that many scruples. When they are tracing gin and vodka/vermouth enters, she doesn't to help until it is explicitly her fault someone might die. I wouldn't have put it passed her to have manipulated Gin. She's definitely smart enough. Jath said she's the brains of the organization, but that's subjective. Just because she's the smartest doesn't mean she's the brains. Doesn't the boss run the organization and plan everything? He's a bit scary.

    It's funny, but i almost forgot Vodka's name. He's seems to have no part besides stupidity and comic relief. :P

    Btw, thanks for the putting together the BO arcs list. That must have taken forever.

  8. #52
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Jath's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportgal1 View Post
    I wouldn't have put it passed her to have manipulated Gin. She's definitely smart enough. Jath said she's the brains of the organization, but that's subjective. Just because she's the smartest doesn't mean she's the brains. Doesn't the boss run the organization and plan everything? He's a bit scary.

    Btw, thanks for the putting together the BO arcs list. That must have taken forever.
    Well I don't think that was me saying that she is the brains of the organization, but yeah, she definitely is smart as hell. Though I don't think Gin would have been manipulated, he is smart as hell to. He has kind of like a 6th sense.

    The boss in general is crazy, though I don't think he's pulling all of the strings. It seems like he gave a good amount of power to Gin, at least from what I've seen so far. He's been calling a good amount of the shots until a message from the boss shows up etc.

    And yes, thanks for the BO arc list. I didn't even notice it before since it was an edit in the other message, but thanks a ton. Definitely helpful.

    "You are a 100 years too early to argue logically with ME......"

  9. #53
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Yabe's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    Quote Originally Posted by Luckas View Post
    You have incredible memory, see here.
    Thanks, Luckas that confirmed how Vermouth knows then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportgal1 View Post
    I really doubt that the BO has some good ultimate reason. In a shonen, if people kill for a good reason they always look sorta sad. This manga is over 600 chapters, you think that there would've been at least some foreshadowing if something like that was to happen. I just have this natural dislike for Vermouth, so hope she doesn't end up being a hero. Hang, draw and quarter etc...
    Having enough of tragedy to kill someone shouldn't be considered as 'good reason' in itself no matter what

    But there're indeed a lot of hints Aoyama has left about Vermouth that could lead to the suspecion that she has some sad backgrounds >_> This conversation is one example. Not to mention that she's kept thinking of Conan as the 'Silver Bullet' that shall destroy the Organization completely in one day, and let alone having thought like that Vermouth hasn't the intention to stop or even reveal Conan's secret to Gin or the other BO members. Unless there's another way of interpreting those contradictory characters of Vermouth, I wouldn't look across the possibility that she's not originally born devil.

    Furthermore, I also wouldn't ignore how most of the cases of this serie has been solved with the revelation of the culprits' sorrowful motivation. Those revelations imo have added more depth, more sense, and more impression to the story, they've sent good messages regarding of the cruelty in life that could happen to someone so that it leads them to all the wrong doings and even killing people out of emotions, even a minor-minor character like the gymnastic girl who's the culprit of the small case was explained about her real teary motivation by Aoyama, so I think it's sensible enough to guess that the more interesting and more of major character as Vermouth, etc. would be done in the similar way. Like someone else ever said "the more evil and cold-hearted a person becomes, the more reflection of their past living is presented."

    Quote Quote:
    I think part of the reason that Gin hates her is because of akemi and akai, but there was probably some sort of personal relationship. I thought at first they might be siblings/cousins, but now i doubt. Then the naked back pic would be awfully strange. Sherry doesn't seem to have that many scruples. When they are tracing gin and vodka/vermouth enters, she doesn't to help until it is explicitly her fault someone might die. I wouldn't have put it passed her to have manipulated Gin. She's definitely smart enough. Jath said she's the brains of the organization, but that's subjective. Just because she's the smartest doesn't mean she's the brains. Doesn't the boss run the organization and plan everything? He's a bit scary.
    I thought that Sherry didn't want to get involved at first at the time was just because she knew of Gin's absolute way in dealing with traitors, but well... your theory's also plausible at least I can't find any other objection but the very coldness of Gin towards her.

    However, when Sherry was mentioned as 'the brains of the organization' I interpreted it as she's one of the efficacious scientists who are working in the labs for the BO, and not the one person who plans things for the org. as a whole - nor indicating her worldly smartness. From what we've seen there're a lot of influential people working/relating to the Black Org., so it's safe to assume that there're seperated groups of them e.g. the killers, the ones who gather infomation, the scientists (the most important group according to the advancement of their project or equals to the brains), etc. and I also wouldn't call Sherry as the smartest member in the BO though considering how she almost got caught by Gin and Vermouth if it wasn't the rescue from Conan/Ran.
    Last edited by Yabe; November 15, 2008 at 03:39 PM. Reason: change the link to be more obvious

  10. #54
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Sportgal1's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    I guess i just take the brains of the organization to mean the mastermind. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but that was the first thing that i thoughy of.

    Even though Ooyama Gosho shows that the culprits have feelings, I still don't want the BO to. It makes them more interesting when their heartless. I could go with just learning about some basics motives of gin and vodka. Their past doesn't really interest me, the mysteriousness makes them more dangerous.

    Yes, i think the boss is really smart, but i don't think that he's crazy per say. Anyone who runs around having people murdered is crazy. That includes all of the BO. I just don't think that he's crazier than the rest of them. I wonder how he keeps Gin and the likes in line. The seem to have a healthy respect for him. I just hope he's not some fat old man, but someone who'll actually take part in the story.

  11. #55
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Jath's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    We'll probably start seeing the boss more when Gin and the others start to mess up a bit and slip - not like that will ever happen. lol Though I would like to see how the boss plays myself - like more interaction - cause I would like to see how he keeps Gin in line myself.

    "You are a 100 years too early to argue logically with ME......"

  12. #56
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Yabe's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    Hm. The Moriarty who could keep a smart and heartless person like Gin under his control; and if he hasn't been there watching his underlings when they're in action and could've planned every right things out by just reading their email reports then I expect him to be much more fearsome, smart, calm and heartless than everyone else. He could be James Black

  13. #57
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Sportgal1's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    You really like the James Black theory, don't you Yabe? If we're going with slightly out there theories, we might as well say Akai or Agasa () is the boss.

    *edit*
    Though Akai or Agasa being the boss would be really wierd. James Black is at least reasonable.
    Last edited by Sportgal1; November 24, 2008 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Corrections and additions.

  14. #58
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    Chapter 677 is out!

    it was really good, we're finally back to a case that might have some relevance! I never thought that i'd see jodie acting like this, we're finally going to get some answers (hopefully).

    The last arc with kaitou kid was pretty good, but a bit anti-climactic. conan just watched when he flew away. kid saved him from having his head blown off, so conan just let him go. they didn't talk much, but that was one cool vault. guess the mangakas' not run out of ideas yet!

  15. #59
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner LPnaurto's Avatar
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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    hey i just started reading this manga recently and just finished reading chapter 681...im just wondering if this is a weekly comic?
    hey guys sign up at: , search, earn swagbucks, REDEEM COOL PRIZES! Swagbucks constantly updates their prize list so you'll never know what new things they'll have in store (they don't remove other items in case you were wondering)

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    Re: Detective Conan by Aoyama Gosho

    Quote Originally Posted by LPnaurto View Post
    hey i just started reading this manga recently and just finished reading chapter 681...im just wondering if this is a weekly comic?
    this is from wikipedia "serialized in Weekly Shōnen Sunday since 1994" so i guess it weekly.. but it is not the type of manga you should read every week...

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