Claymore 121 Discussion

[SaphG1]

naah totally serious

Dunno where this weakest aura's thing your talking about comes from, but since the beginning its fair to say that Yagi went to efforts to make Cass seem less impressive but never actually stated she was the weakest. He let the reader infer that on there own. Which they did despite constantly being shown that IF there were a difference between the three of them it was rather minute. We have to remember that Cass and Roxy NEVER fought, that being said Roxanne could say whatever she wanted but she obviously didn't trust her skills entirely against Cassandra. A key thing that keeps being forgotten is that most of Cassandra being called weak is from Roxanne's perspective, that's a character perspective and not an omniscient author perspective meaning she as the character may not be correct. In essence she never knew how strong Cassandra was even for a single moment, her estimations were always made on a strong bias, which is starting to show more and more. Roxy fan's will always say that Roxanne is so overwhelmingly better that Cassanadra is just a hit away from death etc etc, but its far from the truth.

Remember the dust eater is technique designed more or less designed to shred awakened beings, Cassandra has an awakened form that still alllow's her to continue using her technique, Roxanne has a interesting form but lacks proper appendages to perform those techniques she stole as a claymore. So in essence is just a AB vs an AB killing technique, the dust eater just became an epic trump card.

Whats the point assuming it's only Roxanne and Hysteria that make the other shake in fear only because Yagi didn't do a cut away until this chapter. Seems more like to me he was saving it for when all three new abyssal were awakened, not some clear estimation of power. these are Abyssal level beings we don't know if they are in there true forms or what levels of regeneration they have. Plenty still up in the air as far as the battle potential of the New AO's vs the old generations.

I'm really hoping we don't get a cliche Seven ghost appear and somehow magically overcome insurmountable odds and defeat three abyssal ones sort of thing. or also not a Pricilla wakes up and obliterates them all...too soon for them to die ><

p.s. @ Hysteria....why doesn't she just jump backwards and knock the sword out by slamming the tip of the blade against the ground?...mysteries.

[Ryus]

naah totally serious

Dunno where this weakest aura's thing your talking about comes from, but since the beginning its fair to say that Yagi went to efforts to make Cass seem less impressive but never actually stated she was the weakest. He let the reader infer that on there own. Which they did despite constantly being shown that IF there were a difference between the three of them it was rather minute. We have to remember that Cass and Roxy NEVER fought, that being said Roxanne could say whatever she wanted but she obviously didn't trust her skills entirely against Cassandra. A key thing that keeps being forgotten is that most of Cassandra being called weak is from Roxanne's perspective, that's a character perspective and not an omniscient author perspective meaning she as the character may not be correct. In essence she never knew how strong Cassandra was even for a single moment, her estimations were always made on a strong bias, which is starting to show more and more. Roxy fan's will always say that Roxanne is so overwhelmingly better that Cassanadra is just a hit away from death etc etc, but its far from the truth.

Hmm... well ok then...

Anyways... Audrey, Rachel and Nina also gave us a read on her power level and hopefully Audrey/Rachel learned from her mistake with Riful about judging yoki too lightly. Seemingly based on there fight before using her technique and after her power level didn't improve at all it's just that her ability made up for a huge difference in combat ability. It's like Quicksword vs ripping sword and then throw in her left handedness and things get very unpredictable with her. However if she loses that unpredictability nothing thus far implies she stands a chance imho. As opinionated as Roxanne maybe they did have a test fight and Roxanne in human form was able to predict where Roxanne would be to strike with the dirty sword (though I'll give you her wounds).

We also have no one fainting when she awakened out of fear of her aura... which is a sign of something to say the least. Plus a wounded Raftela was able to yaki manipulate her sword over and over... that implies either she's weak and can be over powered or she's using next to no power once again and is just a twit whom kept repeating something after it didn't work.

Yagi's only implication as to Cassandra's strength thus far has been Dae's obsession over how many wounds she had but once we learned how she got them it was due to acceptance than Dae's implication that she kept fighting till the bloody end.

It's true that Roxy and Cass never fought... at full power but without using her Dust Eater move... Roxy was able to beat her with Elizabeth's perfect sword. Plus in that fight both had Silver eyes implying they where on about equal power levels at the time.

As to not trusting her skills I sorry I disagree as to why Roxy set up the fight that way. Let me quote myself from another thread since I think it still applies here.

Cowardism... :uhoh: fear of fighting Cassandra 1 vs 1... :uhoh: I think you totally misunderstand just how evil Roxanne is and her motives. It wasn't fear that caused her to do this, it was her vindictive nature.

I believe that Roxanne's reasoning for setting the stage up so Cassandra would fight her in front of all the other warriors, was to humiliate her then let them reject her by joining her side against Cassandra. She wasn't scare of attacking her at all... what she wanted to mess with her head as much as possible is what it boiled down to.

Look, Cassandra viewed her move as disgusting and was ashamed of the technique, so Roxanne attacked that aspect of her personality. First she removed the only warrior whom had accepted her and her technique, this scoring the double victory of being the trigger for Cassandra to attack everyone to get to her. Then Roxanne set up a situation back at org HQ where Cassandra would be forced to use the technique she was ashamed of in front of everyone in order to totally humiliate her by making her reveal her vial technique before she killed her. That is why Roxanne personally antagonized her about #35 enjoying her horrible death and then was shouting how odd and ungraceful the move was. Both to point out to Cassandra what she had just down, whom she revealed the technique too, and to drive the warriors into a frenzy to attack her. However since Cassandra's greatest fear was rejection, after Roxanne stopped her movements she let the other warriors finish her off slowly and painfully just to add further insult to injury. That way she'd feel utterly rejected by her fellow warriors at the end, deprived of vengeance, and ashamed of harming her fellow warrior all at once... while slowly dying over several hours in agony.

Roxanne was aiming to torment Cassandra and then kill her once done, not protect herself by hiding behind other warriors. Roxanne is more twisted than you realize... and totally evil and beyond redemption. She truly is a villain you love to hate... well assuming you aren't messed up like me anyhow :, then you cheer her on wanting to see what other conflict she'll add to the plot before she dies. :eyespin:

Think of it like this, Roxanne is that mean & vindictive girl at school but with endless power, plenty of brains, and nothing else to do besides attacking your very being then killing you once she's done. She may have been a coward in the past and still maybe but in that moment cowardism wasn't her motivation. At best she liked the idea of watching more than doing in this case and at worst she considered the protection a bonus to her plan... but her motivation was to torment poor Cassandra, nothing else.

Sorry, you misunderstand what I as a "Roxanne fan" am arguing. Since I don't think you ever considered my reasoning for why Roxanne attacked Cassandra as she did. Personally I think your failing to grasp the true depth, hatred, and sins Roxanne has committed against Cassandra as acts of fear and not pure evil. You saw it as a form of fear, I as pure hatred.

Remember the dust eater is technique designed more or less designed to shred awakened beings, Cassandra has an awakened form that still alllow's her to continue using her technique, Roxanne has a interesting form but lacks proper appendages to perform those techniques she stole as a claymore. So in essence is just a AB vs an AB killing technique, the dust eater just became an epic trump card.

Remember
A) Cassandra has never fought an AO before so applying the Dust Eater as a pro here is premature at best... I think any #1 could kill just about any AB out there shy of an AO without dust eater, so Cassandra needing Dust Eater implies a deficiency in her part since she seemingly needed it for every fight.
B) She's a bit big for getting the feet... and from what we've only seen Roxanne's fighting style wouldn't be that effected by it since she fights ranged (Plus AO's can grow back limbs... look at Ilsey and confirmed Offensive type at that)
C) Cassandra's technique of dust eater has to get close to work but Roxanne has got spinning blades of doom, the closer one gets they negate all agility advantages since the blades have less distance to cover to reach Cassandra.
D) She's got an ability that lets her dodge like Dust eater yes... but I've yet to see any attack of her's that can shred minus those massively lame heads bite, those head would also just make easy targets for Raoxanne to pin down with one of her own tentacles to ensnare Cassandra the n finish her off.

Whats the point assuming it's only Roxanne and Hysteria that make the other shake in fear only because Yagi didn't do a cut away until this chapter. Seems more like to me he was saving it for when all three new abyssal were awakened, not some clear estimation of power. these are Abyssal level beings we don't know if they are in there true forms or what levels of regeneration they have. Plenty still up in the air as far as the battle potential of the New AO's vs the old generations.

Yes, in a sense but also in a sense there's plenty of time left for Roxanne to show us new awakened moves converted from other techniques she stole.

Anyways back to the lack of cut away for Cassandra... it's like Teresa vs Priscilla fights where Irene starts going OMG... power Teresa o.o, Power Priscilla 0.o, POWER TERESA 0.0, AWAKENED PRISCILLA OoO +too stunned to mentally comment. Simply put it shows an exponential jump in power being detected.... the question is is is just from the awakening at the same time or is one/both of them stronger than Cassandra. Hard to call but it is another hint one could use to interpret Cassandra as being weaker but with a better ability. *remember I'm talking power not killing ability, which I respect in Cassandra I just fear she'll fail to kill Roxanne and it will take something beyond these three awakening to trigger Priscilla's escape... I think one of them will need to start approaching Teresa/Priscilla level of power to cause both Priscilla to focus enough to escape and for Clare to lose concentration due to sensing another Priscilla over there.

I'm really hoping we don't get a cliche Seven ghost appear and somehow magically overcome insurmountable odds and defeat three abyssal ones sort of thing. or also not a Pricilla wakes up and obliterates them all...too soon for them to die ><

Well what do you want?

p.s. @ Hysteria....why doesn't she just jump backwards and knock the sword out by slamming the tip of the blade against the ground?...mysteries.

We've been yelling about this on AS for some time... I feel no need to make an even longer post

[Goral]

Raw for those who know Japanese: http://www.mediafire.com/?x696o3q505k0626

[Shamy]

Yes, also reader available http://mangahead.com/Manga-Raw-Scan/...e-121-Raw-Scan

[Goral]

Yes, also reader available http://mangahead.com/Manga-Raw-Scan/...e-121-Raw-Scan

That's not raw but Chinese scanlation by TSS group.

Edit:
Only now they've change it to a raw.

[Alisia]

Awakened Hysteria....what the hell she is? The name...Hysteria the elegant has disappear whit her awake. She is not pretty.

Awakened Roxanne, semms to be a oracle.

Awakened Cassandra....No comment.

However, i' think that the much strong is Cassandra, and i'don't think that helen's group can be something against the 3 abyssal one.

Just one thing....Why Miata is not in the scenes? Why is she at Rabona? She is not a claymore?

[Super Angillis]

Maita, Clarice, and Galatea were left at Rabona in order to protect the city. Also I think the ghosts didn't really want to drag a kid, no matter how crazy and strong into this final battle at the Organization.

[Alisia]

Ok for Clarice, but the skills of Galatea and Miata, are very important in this situation. Is the final battle? Ok, all in the field

I' think that Miata could be very dangerous for the 3 Awakened claymore.

[HegemonKhan]

My old theory on Clarice+Miata+Galatea:

Since Galatea was staying in Rabona, due to her love for the city, Miria had no choice but to order Clarice and Miata to stay in Rabona. Why? The last thing Miria wanted was for Miata to Awaken, as heck, Miata Awakening could possibly even be "Another PRISCILLA!", beyond another AO. And, should Miata start to Awaken, then who better than Galatea, to attempt to stop or prevent or control it? Let's not forgot that Rubel allowed for Galatea to observe the Soul Link of A+B, when Awakened Alicia was slaughtering the 11 ABs attacking the Org HQs. Was this act by Rubel to teach our Galatea how to do the Soul Link, and if so, for what purpose? Maybe something to do with the Destroyer+Clare+Priscilla, the "Blob of 3" ??? Or, as I said, Miria could use Galatea to help with Miata Awakening... Galatea+Awakened Miata+Soul Link, coming to the rescue, hehe

[SaphG1]

@ Ryu's i don't feell like quoting every part of your post there but i'll get to a few points.

@ the Dust eater vs Roxanne. it doesn't matter is Cassandra has fought an AO with her dust eater as a Claymore. she is currently an AO USING the dust eater. We're not talking about a Rank one claymore vs an Abyssal one, but two being both of equally immense power. that pretty much annuls any factored massive difference in speed and power and endurance and etc. The name Abyssal one is something given to those most powerful awakened beings but on scale an AO doesn't think of another AO as anything more then another equal awakened being, a.k.a nothing special. Even if Roxanne pins those heads down we already know they aren't vital areas and the can be spawn and revert at will and probably at just about any multitude Cassandra would like. pin her down and finish her off? lol ^^

Sure it's always been super easy for AO's to kill each other. that why Isley was completely unharmed after fighting Luciela...oh wait...

@Cassandra being manipulated by Raftela. She also did it to Roxanne when fighting the twins, so by your measurements Roxanne would also be weaker the Raftela. If you recall they said that the number ten has specialize anti-warrior training. it has nothing to do with pure power, she's got a skill perfect for battling other Claymores regardless of power. It was designed to be that way by the organization, she is an anti-Claymore claymore.

@ the dust eater in general. I've stated before that it's not a deficiency at all for Cassandra to use the dust eater to be rank one. Are great whites deficient because they've not had to evolve for several million years? Are Crocodiles and Alligators Deficient because they've changed in almost no manner since the times of the dinosaurs? Why don't you go ask either face to face. there is a saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Humans understand this concept, even nature and biology understand this concept. That's what the Dust eater is no matter how you look at it. its one of the great white sharks of the Claymore universe. it's not pretty it's not clean but it work Trrremendoussly well. Also, there a living intelligent being behind it.

Cassandra has already demonstrated the techniques ability to change direction and level while moving so fast that even claymore eyes don't keep up and limbs will still be airborne by the time she's done. The dust eater doesn't and hasn't ever simply swung one direction with no ability to change to alter it's course. its a constantly changing high speed and highly sporadic move, that takes heavy advantage of blind spots and dead angles. Its not predictable at all. In fact people who think it is easy to counter would probably die more often. How could Cassandra who used the technique all her life not recognize the things others see as weaknesses? just looking at her fight with Audrey Rachel and Nina(who was using a yoki perceiving auto tracking technique) attempting most counters results in death. Roxanne solves this issue by having Cassandra cut into pieces before leveling the final blow. that doesn't make the technique predictable, that's using strategy to forcible make it predictable, and that sir is baller.


Lets face it Roxy is not superior the being, she's in for the fight of her life and she's going to get hurt, shredded and possibly die in the process, best she'll get is that they die together, but hey Cassandra doesn't mind getting down and dirty after all, she might use one of those dirty moves to escape alive. Maybe she should have learned the dust eater after all

We can speculate till the cows come home but Yagi isn't Akira toriyama, he's going to make this fight good and keep the surprises coming.


And lastly:

what i want you ask? I want the three new AO's to tear ass all over the place, get pissed at each-other and then scatter in three different directions to plot how to take one another out. Epic resets pls^^

[aegon-rokudo]

I enjoyed so much the exchange of words between cassandra and roxanne between page [13, 16] that I had to translate it:

13
Roxanne: Wait\\
Roxanne:that's mine\\
roxanne: what the hell\\
roxanne: do you intend to get in my way\\kassandra?\\
cassandra: all the food here in mine\\
cassandra: a number 2 like you should just eat shit\\
14
roxanne: a that' right\\
roxanne: I became the number 1 once I killed you after you were so miserabily choped up\\ Don't you remember that?\\
cassandra: I don't care\\
cassandra: now that you have become even more unpleasant than shit\\ you should just eat shit and become part of it\\
roxanne: die\\
roxanne: cassandra
twin: this is bad
SFX: gokun(gulp)\\
16
cassandra: I already told you...\\
cassandra: you are just a number 2\\
cassandra: that is even worse than shit\\

[gernot]

Before aegon-rokudo feels like he needs to translate all of it, I've posted my translation now. Dunno why mangastream is taking so long this month... Anyways, enjoy!

[TheCatintheHat]

I am trying to figure out what is going to happen the next chapter, since I see it predictable, I hope Norihiro surprise us in New Year.

The awakened forms of Roxanne and Hysteria are plain, it looks more interesting Cassandra´s form, or at least looks like Cassandra is useful compared to those two.

[aegon-rokudo]

Before aegon-rokudo feels like he needs to translate all of it, I've posted my translation now. Dunno why mangastream is taking so long this month... Anyways, enjoy!

You did well, otherwise I would end up translating the whole thing

thanks

[eefrit]

Finally.