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Thread: Nisekoi Hangout Thread

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    I dunno about you guys, but I'm starting to lose hope in this series.... I was really hoping for Naoshi to make a huge comeback but I guess it was too good to be true.

    Nisekoi's been so far a good read, but it hasn't hooked me as hard as Kagami did. I was really hoping that after 4-5 chapters, the plot would start to get interesting but it's so far been stagnant throughout the series.

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  2. #32
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Pirulito's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Chapter 5 is out.
    Wow, I wasn't expecting that to happen so soon. It makes me think if it has been planned to be a short series.

    Se entendeu essa frase, entre nessa bagaça

  3. #33
    Negative Syndicate
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirulito View Post
    It makes me think if it has been planned to be a short series.
    If it is, then I wonder why he decide to do short series. He's not a successful author, so he doesn't have enough money to live with. Ending Nisekoi means he's losing a job.

  4. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member masgrande's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Maybe the real plot of the manga is Raku going out with Onodera while pretending to go out with Chitoge in front of their families.
    please click on them to help them grow.

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  6. #35
    Negative Syndicate
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    So far, Nisekoi follows all of basic formats of typical romcon, so there isn't really anything new. The only part is different from other romcon is both male/female protagonists' families are either yakuza or mafia.

    I hope Komi to bring something fresh and original soon.

  7. #36
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    I'm not seeing how the key being revealed is some sign Nisekoi will be a short series. All it means is that he is moving the plot forward and they won't be running from gangsters/yakuza every week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Syndicate View Post
    So far, Nisekoi follows all of basic formats of typical romcon, so there isn't really anything new. The only part is different from other romcon is both male/female protagonists' families are either yakuza or mafia.

    I hope Komi to bring something fresh and original soon.

    Actually, I would say that Komi turned romcon cliche inside out. And no, that is not a reference to the yakuza or gangsters. Komi made the archetypical rival character (Onodera) Raku's "fated girl" of the past, turning that cliche inside out. Then he turned the girl that fate brought him together with (Kirisaki) into the rival character. The way he has written the two girls changes alters the way a typical romcon plot moves forward. Instead of falling for the female lead, the female lead is now preventing Riku from confessing to the rival character. In a typical romcon the tsundere femal lead and OCD male lead are pushed together by fate, hate each other for a few volumes, but proximity gradually leads each to see the others good qualities. Typically Onodera's affection for Raku would lead him to finally understand his feelings for Kirasaki. Instead his forced relationship with Kirasaki will prevent his reunion with his fated one. And what if Raku actually starts to fall for Kirasaki, who is still the main character, not Onodera. No, this is not a generic romcon, I am deeply sorry. Virtually everything is different from typical romcon's. No, it's not as original Journey to the End of the World or Palepoli. But are any Jump Comics? Of course not, and no one expects them to be. Nisekoi is a fun read with good art, interesting characters, a fun premise. After five chapters it is a definite improvement over Double Arts.

    I am not sure the key being revealed so soon means this will be a short manga. All it means is that Komi wants Raku to become aware that Onodera is his fated girl early on. If comically running from Yakuza was all Nisekoi was about this would be a terribly boring manga. The tension between being in love with Onodera and forced to be in love with Kirasaki is the emotional heart of the story.

    It is slightly odd symbolism that the girl is the key master and the boy is the lock keeper

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  9. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    But then again, Kagami isn't really your ordinary/cliche romcom either. And I find it better than Nisekoi so far, to be honest. Maybe it's because Komi is pushing the plot forward too slowly. With Kagami, I felt like I was taken on a major roller-coaster ride every chapter.

    In fact, I feel this isn't an improvement over DA. At all. IMO, DA was still better than this since the plot moved wayyy faster than Nisekoi.

    The 7 Dragons Of Fiore

  10. #38
    Negative Syndicate
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Actually, I would say that Komi turned romcon cliche inside out. And no, that is not a reference to the yakuza or gangsters. Komi made the archetypical rival character (Onodera) Raku's "fated girl" of the past, turning that cliche inside out. Then he turned the girl that fate brought him together with (Kirisaki) into the rival character. The way he has written the two girls changes alters the way a typical romcon plot moves forward. Instead of falling for the female lead, the female lead is now preventing Riku from confessing to the rival character. In a typical romcon the tsundere femal lead and OCD male lead are pushed together by fate, hate each other for a few volumes, but proximity gradually leads each to see the others good qualities. Typically Onodera's affection for Raku would lead him to finally understand his feelings for Kirasaki. Instead his forced relationship with Kirasaki will prevent his reunion with his fated one. And what if Raku actually starts to fall for Kirasaki, who is still the main character, not Onodera. No, this is not a generic romcon, I am deeply sorry. Virtually everything is different from typical romcon's. No, it's not as original Journey to the End of the World or Palepoli. But are any Jump Comics? Of course not, and no one expects them to be. Nisekoi is a fun read with good art, interesting characters, a fun premise. After five chapters it is a definite improvement over Double Arts.
    There are really many romcom series that follows your explanation, like I resemble some Nisekoi's development into different romcoms. I still can't see anything that is very different from other romcom series, except yakuza/mafia (well, there are other mangas that uses yakuza as male/female protagonist's family).

    I have to agree with Newkerzy; I can't say it is improvement over Double Art. I think Double Arts was really far more better than Nisekoi (damn Jump editors for cancelling it).

  11. #39
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    But then again, Kagami isn't really your ordinary/cliche romcom either. And I find it better than Nisekoi so far, to be honest. Maybe it's because Komi is pushing the plot forward too slowly. With Kagami, I felt like I was taken on a major roller-coaster ride every chapter.

    In fact, I feel this isn't an improvement over DA. At all. IMO, DA was still better than this since the plot moved wayyy faster than Nisekoi.
    Who compared anything to Kagami? I fail to understand why one would have to take sides or even bother to mention Kagami in this thread. They're not even particularly similar. I don't really get what liking Kagami has to do with liking Nisekoi. Yes, I know it is amazing that neither are action manga and are in the same magazine at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Syndicate View Post
    There are really many romcom series that follows your explanation, like I resemble some Nisekoi's development into different romcoms. I still can't see anything that is very different from other romcom series, except yakuza/mafia (well, there are other mangas that uses yakuza as male/female protagonist's family).

    I have to agree with Newkerzy; I can't say it is improvement over Double Art. I think Double Arts was really far more better than Nisekoi (damn Jump editors for cancelling it).
    Examples please. I like Nisekoi and I like slice of life, whether romcon or not. I would like to read these manga that are so similar to Nisekoi, and am bewildered how despite being a fan of the genre I have overlooked so many. Whether true or not it is nearly impossible, and makes for a very poor argument, to compare a manga negatively to other, unspecified titles. Along with unqualified denouncements of quality based on qualities that have not been specified make for a terrible discussion. Nisekoi does follow genre conventions, though this is not a negative as novelty generally makes for poor writing. With only five chapters rewriting the rules of a genre is certainly a bit much to expect, so please: where does Nisekoi come up lacking when compared to other examples of slice of life/romcon/school life? There is nothing with disliking a manga based on subjective taste. But it is a very poor argument to claim to make a seemingly objective claim that a manga is somehow inadequate based on a reason as open to interpretation as being "typical" of genre. One Piece is typical of it's genre but no one would make a claim that it is bad. Neither H2 or Cross Game were very different than Touch, yet no who has read them ever complain. Kimi ni Todoke follows the same blue print as Lovely Complex, as do most shoujo romcon. But that does not take away from what a great story KimiTodo is. Not that Nisekoi should be compared to those manga, comparing a five chapter manga to such classics would make about as much sense as comparing Kagami and Nisekoi. But it goes to show that being if being "typical" means following genre conventions than being "typical" does not mean being bad. Hopefully being "typical" does not mean lacking novelty, as adding novel features to a genre does not really have much of a positive or negative effect on story telling.

    Double Arts was a very charming manga with very interesting, likable characters but had an aimless, meandering plot that was unraveling by chapter 5. By chapter 5 they were traveling to a never specified location and were soon fighting villains whose role and affiliation was never explained. But simply saying something is bad as it is "typical" is a thread killer, no one who likes the series could possibly debate something so vague successfully. Hopefully they come back to discuss the new chapter, it is kind of sad not having people who actually like the series to talk to.

    I'm not sure how it can be determined that a five chapter manga is moving slowly. If all they do is run from mafia/yakuza for ten chapters, I would certainly agree. But that ended with chapter 4 and the story started moving in chapter 5. I can see that a slower pace might not be to everyone's taste but a slower pace is "typical" of non-action manga that do not have fight scenes to move the story and risk over emoting if ever chapter is filled with series shaking drama.

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  13. #40
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Hamy's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Examples please.
    Wild Ones by Fujiwara Kiyo, Ojousama-Oyemsama (given the love rivals), Gokusen, are some that come to mind. However, I think what Negative's point is that its nothing too new to have a romance comedy based on the leads having crazy backgrounds - perhaps though Nisekoi kind of adds to this a bit by having BOTH sides be part of the crazy background. Then again it might not be too fresh since in essence this is basically a Romeo & Juliet scenario with an added love interest but really its nothing that new.

    However, what I do see lacking with the setting so far is that well it doesn't help that members for both sides have been rather idiotic sure it is for comedy purposes but it leaves them paper thin or a convenient device just to somehow introduce more complications to a love triangle or at the moment a fake romance (which in itself is already complicated). Case in point is the meeting in the park of the three and how the gangs presence was pretty much just an extra to make the characters nervous.

    Maybe if more gang members actually opposed the romance, we only have Claude, or were suspicious of it then at least the gang aspect would have more of a highlight than just a device. Which is what I would rather see it define itself or set itself apart from other Rom-Com by focusing more on making the Yakuza/Mafia aspect more interesting or more integral than just a device. Something where I can see the Kagami comparisons coming into play as to how both Rom-Com make use of their added touch and revolve things around it, the love mirror can be more independent and has more depth than the gang/mafia aspect of Nisekoi.

    The mirror isn't just a device but a puzzle in itself that doesn't intrude itself as much on the romance to give push it too much the way the yakua/mafia have been lately. Course the manga is still relatively young though is one thing to consider but I just hope it focuses more on developing the yakuza/mafia than the whole child hood friend scenario.

    Edit: Also to add a bit I think incidentally another weakness of this manga so far has actually been the main character. His feelings are way too easily swayed - so Raku manages to catch glimpses of Kagami being attractive to him - given that he's all about keeping his childhood promise and a guy of loyalty or strong romanticism I find this part rather contradictory. It seems more like he'd be fine with whichever girl he picks at this point, which to me is a weakness rather than a strength since there is no excitement of conflict in choosing between the love triangle.
    Last edited by Hamy; December 06, 2011 at 11:31 PM.

  14. #41
    Negative Syndicate
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Examples please. I like Nisekoi and I like slice of life, whether romcon or not. I would like to read these manga that are so similar to Nisekoi, and am bewildered how despite being a fan of the genre I have overlooked so many. Whether true or not it is nearly impossible, and makes for a very poor argument, to compare a manga negatively to other, unspecified titles. Along with unqualified denouncements of quality based on qualities that have not been specified make for a terrible discussion. Nisekoi does follow genre conventions, though this is not a negative as novelty generally makes for poor writing. With only five chapters rewriting the rules of a genre is certainly a bit much to expect, so please: where does Nisekoi come up lacking when compared to other examples of slice of life/romcon/school life? There is nothing with disliking a manga based on subjective taste. But it is a very poor argument to claim to make a seemingly objective claim that a manga is somehow inadequate based on a reason as open to interpretation as being "typical" of genre. One Piece is typical of it's genre but no one would make a claim that it is bad. Neither H2 or Cross Game were very different than Touch, yet no who has read them ever complain. Kimi ni Todoke follows the same blue print as Lovely Complex, as do most shoujo romcon. But that does not take away from what a great story KimiTodo is. Not that Nisekoi should be compared to those manga, comparing a five chapter manga to such classics would make about as much sense as comparing Kagami and Nisekoi. But it goes to show that being if being "typical" means following genre conventions than being "typical" does not mean being bad. Hopefully being "typical" does not mean lacking novelty, as adding novel features to a genre does not really have much of a positive or negative effect on story telling.
    Your asking for examples? That means you want me to give hundreds of romcom series as examples. I'm saying that so far, Nisekoi is following general romcom routines. For instance, like first chapter, main male and female lead meet first (?) time → they had fight → find out that female (or male) lead is new student → both surprised → a teacher let those two sit together because s/he thought those two knew each other; this is typical romcom routine.

    Also, I never said Nisekoi is bad; I only said there aren't anything new about it. If Komi keep putting this typical routine, then I'll lose interest in early stage because it will be too predictable. What I want is different routine that is different from other romcoms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Double Arts was a very charming manga with very interesting, likable characters but had an aimless, meandering plot that was unraveling by chapter 5. By chapter 5 they were traveling to a never specified location and were soon fighting villains whose role and affiliation was never explained. But simply saying something is bad as it is "typical" is a thread killer, no one who likes the series could possibly debate something so vague successfully. Hopefully they come back to discuss the new chapter, it is kind of sad not having people who actually like the series to talk to.
    Double Arts have lots of things unexplained because it was cancelled. Some authors choose to uncover all of series' secrets and the others do not. Komi chose later one, so many things are left unexplained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamy View Post
    However, I think what Negative's point is that its nothing too new to have a romance comedy based on the leads having crazy backgrounds - perhaps though Nisekoi kind of adds to this a bit by having BOTH sides be part of the crazy background.
    My point is about a romocom routine, not a background.

    After reading chapter 5, I predict that it'll be either Onodera makes excuse and Raku believes her or Onodera tells a truth and (possibly) their relationship will become deeper. I, mostly, prefer a later to happen because it'll be interesting to see Raku tries to balance both Onodera's real relationship and Chitoge's fake relationship. I don't think I see any romcom that is happened the later one. If first aspect did occurred, then it might lead to another typical romcom route again.

  15. #42
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Drmke's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamy View Post
    Edit: Also to add a bit I think incidentally another weakness of this manga so far has actually been the main character. His feelings are way too easily swayed - so Raku manages to catch glimpses of Kagami being attractive to him - given that he's all about keeping his childhood promise and a guy of loyalty or strong romanticism I find this part rather contradictory. It seems more like he'd be fine with whichever girl he picks at this point, which to me is a weakness rather than a strength since there is notement of conflict in choosing between the love triangle.
    That's actually pretty commonplace in shonen RomComs. But even if you ignore the cliche of it it's actually true of young boys that age. I know I was like that. I would see a girl I like, ask her out and what not, no basically nothing about her but be so infatuated by her because of her looks. Then the relationship would end and I would be sad....until another pretty girl walked in front of me then I was in love again. So personally I love that the main character is like that because it's pretty damn realistic in my opinion. Sure adult men aren't necessarily as easily swayed by just a few glimpses of beauty but boys sure are.

    Also, it might not be just the looks that are making him like her more. He sees her as being "ugly" like with her personality, how she talks, and the way she acts. And when he sees her looking cute (she is also at these moments not calling him names or going berserk), he starts to think there might be something kind underneath which makes him start to think that she might not be so bad after all. Hmm....all that sounded a little gay.


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  17. #43
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    It's not as though he has fallen for her after one glance. He has not been wishy-washy but still looks at her as a gorilla. She had a cute moment, he realized she was kind of hot, then remembered he found her personality insufferable. There is nothing to indicate he likes Onodera any less for it. If he does develop feelings for Kirasaki it will be due to getting her know better, because of being forced together. Call it Stockholm Syndrome or getting to know someone better but it would be only natural in real life, given the circumstances. Given that she is actually a nice person, it would be really unnatural feeling if they never develop even a slight crush. Conflicting feelings would be far more realistic than ignoring all of Kirasaki's good qualities despite the amount of time he is forced to spend with her.

  18. #44
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Hamy's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by Drmke View Post
    That's actually pretty commonplace in shonen RomComs. But even if you ignore the cliche of it it's actually true of young boys that age. Hmm....all that sounded a little gay.
    It is pretty common place in RomCom that was exactly the criticism brought up since its not really defining itself much and starting to play out rather familiarly. Realism is the last thing I'd look for in a manga with a guy who has a Yakuza for a family and is forced to date a fake girlfriend nothing implies this is a slice of life, so following realism is the last thing I'd consider. Sides why bring up realism when you have majority of a Yakuza/Mafia members following some high school kids on their 'first date' - handful for body guard perhaps but they never bothered to be inconspicuous - and acting like young girls kyaaing at every instance or rooting on them. Yes they like the two and consider them family but lets face it there isn't dates where family members/friends and spy on you this is something that only happens in fantasy for most part - and very sad realities for a select few I guess XD.

    Of course in reality young boys and their feelings waver a lot and that has been the material for a lot of manga along with being dumb for Raku to ignore the good qualities of Kirisaki. However, it really doesn't change the fact that at this point - the manga being young and all - I'm not seeing any tension or issues with whom he picks. Reason being exactly how easily moved he is when he makes a discovery of a good point in Kirisaki that you could easily find or imagine Onodera to have, or for that matter any girl or heck even guys if 'niceness' or 'cuteness' appeals to you they way it does Raku. I'm not seeing much unique qualities with the two girls beyond the surface. Frankly if niceness and cuteness was enough to create inner conflict for a guy who held on to a promise, which is supposed to be his unique quality that would have helped to set him apart from young boys his age (in addition to being the son of a Yakuza), then I do find him rather fickle. I do not care if it is normal because normality for Raku is pretty much different from boys his age and part of his normality so far has been obsessing over the promise and finding that girl so that when he caves in too easily that it doesn't leave the best impression on his character as it undermines what makes him stand out.

    Moving on from Raku and a bit into Kirisaki I would think that the best appeal both characters should have with one another is the fact that they share a similar background, being the son/daughter of the yakuza/mafia, so that it should be easy to relate or even be honest with each other in not hiding what type of background they have. After all their common background is the most unique quality they have. This just yet again points out to my gripe of what a shame the yakuza/mafia aspect has been sanitized or made cute that it ends up being just a device to push the two into dating.
    Last edited by Hamy; December 07, 2011 at 07:48 PM.

  19. #45
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: [NEW] Nisekoi by KOMI Naoshi

    Raku does not seem to really relish his background. It makes sense that the more demure, seemingly wholesome Onodera would be more appealing than the rough around the edges Kirasaki. The rough around the edges Kirasaki represents everything he wants to escape from. He consciously wants to leave his background behind, someone with the same roots was bound to rub him the wrong way.

    I'm not really sure he has reached the point of internal conflict yet. One fleeting moment of passing cuteness, and a brief admission that she is not that bad, has not made Raku question his feelings for Onodera. He still wails about being trapped with the gorilla for three years. The emotional conflict should develop slowly, over the course of a few volumes, or not at all. Maybe he never sees anything in her, and at best they become allies in making peace between their clans and setting Raku up with Onodera. Half a volume is to soon to establish much of a plot or any tension, other than the most basic of set up.

    Emotional realism is essential to any slice of life manga, romcon or otherwise. No matter what the setting, the reader has to be able to identify with what the characters are feeling, on some level. The better the characters, the more audience sympathizes. Take away the emotional realism, or make the series ridiculous to the point where no one can identify, and the series does not fall apart. The Yakuza and Gangsters are the setting, the scenery. Maybe they symbolize the battle of the sexes. With our two clashing, ill suited protagonist that makes for a nice little metaphor. But a fantastic setting does not mean the emotions can not be realistic, and the romantic situations identifiable.

    I'm not sure what one could expect from Nisekoi, as far as being "typical" of it's genre goes. It is fully possible to transcend genre without while still adhering to genre conventions. Chihayafuru is a transcendent manga without ever abandoning genre conventions. Not to say that Nisekoi will be a classic but in a genre where what is said is more important than how it is said, it is hard to a judge manga before the mangaka has had the time to develop the story. I have yet to see a series, intended to last indefinitely, capable of establishing it's full voice in half a volume. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a series for being fun and entertaining while it develops that voice. And no matter how original the setting or premise, what really matters is if the author has something to say or not. Berserk is one of many action manga, with nothing in it's setting or premise to set it apart. It is Miura's storytelling that makes it transcendent, despite being typical of it's genre.

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