Fairy Tail 259 Discussion / 260 Predictions

[nichendrix]

Wendy is Grandine's dragon slayer, not Polyusca - and as far as we know, each dragon has only one dragon slayer. I doubt she herself is a DS, and I am hesitant to believe that she is Grandine herself, but there is clearly some mysterious relation between Polyusca and the Dragons based off her extensive knowledge of Dragonslayers and the prophecy.

Since there is two fire dragon slayers and two iron dragon slayers, it's hard to assume that every dragon has trained just one dragon slayer.

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------

I'm not taking this manga too seriously at all dude. Plotholes are plotholes. And its not just for 13 olds. Violence and umm have you seen the way Mashima draws the women lol?People of all ages read manga in Japan. Besides......people constantly, CONSTANTLY rip on other authors in the other discussions. Whats wrong with asking questions when Mashima is making mistakes? I'm actually being constructive, I'm not flaming. It's pretty frustrating that disappointment can't be expressed in this discussion, yet on other manga discussions its almost as if satisfaction can't be expressed... Just because I don't like an inconsistency or want a good story doesn't mean I'm taking it too seriously dude.....that's part of reading anything. Why would I read a story if I didn't care about either of the two? What would even be the point?

I didn't even say the chapter was bad......I just think lightning-fire being kept is a plothole, and also the dumbest power I've ever heard of, though it will probably look cool animated.

Though in Japan there are manga readers of all ages, I tend to think that plot inconsistencies, and all the analytical stuff is based on the aimed target reader, you can't expect that Harry Potter books are has the same depth that lord of the rings ones, and that tolkien's has the same depth than Tolstoy. They are writen aiming different public, so the tolerance for unexplained situations are different too.

To me Fairy Tail is quite a pre-teen boyish story, the sexuality stuff is there because 13 years old boys and girls are starting to fell and interact with that stuff on their lives, it's a quite straightforward world because there ain't lots of complexity on this kind of public. Mos persons that we see complaining about plot, explanations and so on, are around or over 20 years old, you just don't see a lot of 13 years old coming here saying that Mashima is screwing with they manga. Heck, most of then simply doesn't have this maturity yet.

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with consistency, nor that you can't be upset with it, but we also have to take into account that this stuff was written by someone from a totally different culture, for kids around 13 of that same totally different culture. They never seem to care much about their international readers are thinking about their story, since we are reading on-line without paying anything, while the japanese and korean kids are spending fortunes with their manga, it is them they are interested, and I really believe that if they start to make the same question (and these cultures are very strict and questioning, sometimes, isn't encouraged), well if their kids starting complaining, they would change it pretty fast.

It's just like Naruto, when Sasuke was the badass, the manga was all Sasuke, later when the Pain fight came and Naruto showes his badassery, we barely seen Sasuke after the Kage Summit. Their own pools showed that after the fight against pain, Naruto became the most popular character again, and thus received more spotlight, to please it's fans. And if they have to fuck up the consistency of the story to please the ones who pays they bills, they would certainly do, at least to some extent.

[ca12nag3]

Since there is two fire dragon slayers and two iron dragon slayers, it's hard to assume that every dragon has trained just one dragon slayer.

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------



Though in Japan there are manga readers of all ages, I tend to think that plot inconsistencies, and all the analytical stuff is based on the aimed target reader, you can't expect that Harry Potter books are has the same depth that lord of the rings ones, and that tolkien's has the same depth than Tolstoy. They are writen aiming different public, so the tolerance for unexplained situations are different too.

To me Fairy Tail is quite a pre-teen boyish story, the sexuality stuff is there because 13 years old boys and girls are starting to fell and interact with that stuff on their lives, it's a quite straightforward world because there ain't lots of complexity on this kind of public. Mos persons that we see complaining about plot, explanations and so on, are around or over 20 years old, you just don't see a lot of 13 years old coming here saying that Mashima is screwing with they manga. Heck, most of then simply doesn't have this maturity yet.

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with consistency, nor that you can't be upset with it, but we also have to take into account that this stuff was written by someone from a totally different culture, for kids around 13 of that same totally different culture. They never seem to care much about their international readers are thinking about their story, since we are reading on-line without paying anything, while the japanese and korean kids are spending fortunes with their manga, it is them they are interested, and I really believe that if they start to make the same question (and these cultures are very strict and questioning, sometimes, isn't encouraged), well if their kids starting complaining, they would change it pretty fast.

It's just like Naruto, when Sasuke was the badass, the manga was all Sasuke, later when the Pain fight came and Naruto showes his badassery, we barely seen Sasuke after the Kage Summit. Their own pools showed that after the fight against pain, Naruto became the most popular character again, and thus received more spotlight, to please it's fans. And if they have to fuck up the consistency of the story to please the ones who pays they bills, they would certainly do, at least to some extent.

Thats a lot of offtopicness

To cut it short, FT = written for kids. If that means it should be inconsistant? No, however you cant judge the powerup of Natsu right now as plothole since we didnt get an explanation how it works in the first place. Now we can nag all day about it and say its a plothole. Or wait and see whats next.
A plothole is when 2 facts conflict with 1 another, we do not have that. There is no fact that says eating the lightning is the same as eating a flame. Another thing is that water or iron or w/e, natsu cant eat those. Hes a flame mage. So what happend there is something beyond that of a flame. We simply do not know, so tossing it on the heap of flames is odd.
Rebuke and God flame were as far as i could tell flame typs. Lightning is not. Etherion is something different all together what we dont know about either.

[mr.danly]

[QUOTE=nichendrix;2668959]Since there is two fire dragon slayers and two iron dragon slayers, it's hard to assume that every dragon has trained just one dragon slayer.

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------
/QUOTE]


uh.... who on earth is the other fire dragon slayer and other iron dragon slayer? The only dragon slayers we've been introduced to in the manga are: Natsu, Wendy, Gazille, Laxus, Cobra, Rogue, and Sting. Laxus and Cobra weren't even real dragon slayers (i.e. taught and raised by a dragon), and Rogue and Sting are "light and shadow" dragon slayers, whatever that may mean. I see no second iron or fire dragon slayer.

[hoeru]

uh.... who on earth is the other fire dragon slayer and other iron dragon slayer? The only dragon slayers we've been introduced to in the manga are: Natsu, Wendy, Gazille, Laxus, Cobra, Rogue, and Sting. Laxus and Cobra weren't even real dragon slayers (i.e. taught and raised by a dragon), and Rogue and Sting are "light and shadow" dragon slayers, whatever that may mean. I see no second iron or fire dragon slayer.

Sting ate the metal from the arrow. And that Roar looked very much like Gajeel's... So that most likely makes him to the second iron dragon slayer.

They still could be artificial dragon slayers though using dragon lacrima. But seven years is a lot of time...

[Zeltrax]

Wendy is more then just sugestive shes all tears, another thing is we see pol. a bit to much with a worried face, as if shes discovered. We do know Grandine wanted to intervene but Igneel forbid it. Also the entire shock page with the other characters reacting to Wendy says its more then just sugestive. So i expect her to be Grandine. If not what is the smell/nostalgia for?
Another thing to add is that dragonslayers have heightened sense of smell.

Uh no, the panel I was posting about was the panel where she was looking at her chest.
It's suggestive because we were lead to think that she might need a pill to increase her chest size
But pol is an elf right? I don't see how we could link her as a dragon unless when a dragon takes human form, their ear turns sharp or something.
Like I said, I'm more incline towards her knowing grandine and wendy rather than her being grandine. Maybe she is able to talk to Grandine or maybe she is someone special to grandine.
A human-dragon theory is great but I really don't think I want to jump into too far since I believe dragons should be dragons..and
it wouldn't make sense either because Acknowlogia would have also taken human form.

[nichendrix]

Thats a lot of offtopicness

To cut it short, FT = written for kids. If that means it should be inconsistant?

Indeed it is, at least to me all exacta's complains about inconsistencies, deviates from topic, I just tried to point that there are a number of factors influencing the store, a lot of them have nothing to do to the story itself, most mangas are full of unexplained things, even stories like Lord of The Rings who take a lifetime for the author to develop have unexplained issues, imagine a story that is run with the pressure to sell a lot and to get an issue per week year after year?

A little more on the subject, I don't think that we have time in the series to have everything all clear, and nw, maybe we get some juice, for example, we probably will finally get to know who the hell Porlyurcica is.

No, however you cant judge the powerup of Natsu right now as plothole since we didnt get an explanation how it works in the first place. Now we can nag all day about it and say its a plothole. Or wait and see whats next.
A plothole is when 2 facts conflict with 1 another, we do not have that. There is no fact that says eating the lightning is the same as eating a flame. Another thing is that water or iron or w/e, natsu cant eat those. Hes a flame mage. So what happend there is something beyond that of a flame. We simply do not know, so tossing it on the heap of flames is odd.
Rebuke and God flame were as far as i could tell flame typs. Lightning is not. Etherion is something different all together what we dont know about either.

I have a theory about how he got the ability to incorporate lightining from Luxus and no the other time he incorporated an external ellement.

I thing that happend because Luxus e also a Dragon Slayer, be it true or lacrima made, his magic and Natsu's are pretty much the same, he, Wendy, Gajeel, Luxus, and all dragon slayers uses the same magic, but each one attune it to different element, their dragon teacher's element.

Probably Natsu realized that to some extent he could incorporate some of the lightning element to his magic after his battle along and against Luxus, he can't make the Lightning Dragon Roar, since that needs that he has to learn lightning dragon slayer magic to it's full extent first, but the similarities between it and the fire dragon roar is so big that he could concentrate some lightning to power up his fire, just like a volcano also spills out lightning during eruption.

As far as I can remember there's no contradiction here, since no one has a innate attunement to a certain kind of magic. Natsu, Lucy and Happy, learned some transformation magic with Mira, though Natsu isn't a standard fire mage, he can also use some of Macao's fire. Makarov has at least 3 kinds of different magic, as do Luxus, and through reequip, Erza could control basically any element. Makao's son said he went to school to learn fire magic. And at his fight against Zancrow, Makarov Stated that by suppressing his dragon slayer power Natsu could absorb another kind of power (God Slayer Magic), and even comment that it's something quite difficult to do during a battle, to me this basically establish the principle for someone to learn another totally different kind of magic, if Natsu had the proper training on God Slayer magic, he should be even able to use it all along, but he got just a lucky shot on this mechanics.

To me all of this means that at least in Natsu's case, he could use a downgraded version os lightning dragon slayer magic to incorporate ti to his own magic by the fact that he already learned how to deal, on a lesser degree, with new elements plus the similarities with his own magic.

---------- Post added at 01:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 AM ----------

http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/99758498/23

This line from Frosh is making me wonder since last week if he is talking about Fairy Tail's 3 Dragon Slayers or it is about Sabertooth's also having the same three dragon slayers, and in it's case, Sky Dragon is considered as strong as them.

[exacta]

Thats a lot of offtopicness


A plothole is when 2 facts conflict with 1 another, we do not have that. There is no fact that says eating the lightning is the same as eating a flame. Another thing is that water or iron or w/e, natsu cant eat those. Hes a flame mage. So what happend there is something beyond that of a flame. We simply do not know, so tossing it on the heap of flames is odd.
Rebuke and God flame were as far as i could tell flame typs. Lightning is not. Etherion is something different all together what we dont know about either.

There is a inconsistency. Natsu isn't supposed to be able to eat Laxus' lightning, he got sick the first time he tried. And you can't say Etherion is that different from the lightning when Mashima compared the nature of the power up to it. Natsu has not grown in strength since the beginning of this manga. Every time he was confronted by a OP villain he won with a powerup. Until the hole is filled, lightning-fire is a plothole.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

Since there is two fire dragon slayers and two iron dragon slayers, it's hard to assume that every dragon has trained just one dragon slayer.

---------- Post added at 06:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------
It's just like Naruto, when Sasuke was the badass, the manga was all Sasuke, later when the Pain fight came and Naruto showes his badassery, we barely seen Sasuke after the Kage Summit. Their own pools showed that after the fight against pain, Naruto became the most popular character again, and thus received more spotlight, to please it's fans. And if they have to fuck up the consistency of the story to please the ones who pays they bills, they would certainly do, at least to some extent.

That's not an inconsistency.....thats just different arcs in a manga. I wouldn't care if Mashima started focusing on other characters, that has nothing to do with consistency, plus Sasuke and Naruto are both integral to the plot. Theres no plothole if Sasuke gets more attention in one arc. That just fits with the story of the arc.

I'm not expecting the most deep story in the world dude. I just want a good one. Fairy Tail's fights usually end up with the good guy always winning with friendship, which sometimes ruins them, so its really the story that has me still reading it. I don't care what Mashima's target audience is man, and I already explained why I don't think its primarily aimed at young people. All I said is the one thing i didn't like about this chapter was the plot hole with lightning fire. Why should I lower my expectations from Mashima? They aren't unrealistically high at all.

Jesus, I didn't rip on the chapter or anything. I'm not some giant pessimist. I never compared mangas to American literature dude, its a comic. I didn't start off going on a rant. I'm dropping this topic, this debate is going nowhere, its just back and forth and back and forth. I never post this much on mangahelpers in one day, or in one thread lol. I complained about one inconsistency, not several.

[elitefox]

The chapter was quite interesting. I was actually a bit shocked in the begining of the chapter, because of Natsu being so weak against Max who was next to useless before the timeskip. And Natsu was the closest to S class in new FT generation. So I would say even Mirajane and Elza will not be that great as they were before the timeskip. Still it was quite interesting to see Natsu using combo of Fire and Lightning DS Magic. It might be quite a development for him. He can develop both, because it compliments his Fire DS Magic and it isn't that far in origin from his own type of DS Magic.
Then Gildarts actually surprised me. To see him not only give up on being a Master, but actually run away was a bit shocking, even though it was pretty funny. The thing is that FT is very weak now and he ran away without supporting his comrades. Of course there are still Luxus, Elza and Mirajane apart from Makarov, but still even with Luxus and those two S-class they are quite weak. They must go through at least two or three Arcs to get more or less to the level of the strongest Guilds.
Makarov being 3rd and 6th Master at the same time really looks funny.
And finally Polushka is Grandine? That's actually quite a developmant. Then the theory of Natsu and others being real Dragons looks quite plausible now.

Now I wonder if he can use the black flames too, its more interesting than lightning ^_^

[Ninja_Pirate]

What i believe is ... Natsu ate the lightning for the first time and got sick for 2 days straight (as what happy told lucy) ... However the second time Laxus gave it to natsu.. its more of like since it was already a dragon lacrima that imparts laxus his power.. he gave the small part to Natsu....... however for black flames ... he just took out what he ate.. that s also he used a trick to it by making his magic power zero level (more of like vomiting)... he did'nt do anything like that with laxus lightning ... it was more of diffused with his powers... and tht's the reason he cud try it later and can't try anything else he has eaten till date...

Laxus father wants him back to take out that lacrima for his own benefits... so i guess that power is transferable... however natsu can't use it effectively bcoz his body is not used to it...

Here... http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/245/18 .. natsu was also astonished that he cud use it... he asked "did you give this to me" .. so its pretty much transferring the power (need to stop .. i guess i m being redundant )

[Tengou]

I've read a lot of explanations about how Natsu is capable of suddenly reproducing the Lightning Flame Dragon techniques imparted to him by Laxus, but I feel that people may be overthinking things. Natsu is a mage, with the specialty fire dragon slayer. He can use other magic if he wants, as one or two omakes have clearly demonstrated. He just chooses not to for the most part, but those little side stories still imply that Natsu is well capable of learning any magic he would put his mind to. Natsu is a bruiser; he loves to fight, so naturally he will focus on his own, naturally destructive fire-based magic. I see the Lightning Fire dragon techniques more as an 'Achievement Unlocked' thing.

There's also the fact that Natsu has eaten, and been hit by, Laxus' lightning magic who knows how many times. It's not so crazy to think that he may eventually get the hang of using it naturally, although maybe not exclusively from fire. It may be likened to the way ninjutsu works in the universe of Naruto, where high level shinobi may unlock secondary and tertiary elemental affinities besides their main one through training or the natural process.

Furthermore, lightning is - like fire - a destructive element. Its properties will lend itself well to combining with fire on a purely offensive basis. Plus, I think that after all those near-death experiences, Natsu deserves a second element to play with. I'm all for him gaining more variation in his attacks and techniques, and hope that the training arc that seems about to be set up will let him increase his magic power reserves, his mastery of fire and lightning, and most of all, his basic fighting abilities. Let's be honest, Natsu was bound to improve in some way sometime. He's gotten visibly stronger through all his battles, but regardless of his growth he's almost always needed power-ups to beat his final opponent of the arc. The reason why I liked his fight with Zancrow is because there I could see Natsu explore his limits, and break them by himself. He may eventually naturally unlock this enigmatic Dragon Force we have seen a few samples of, which I think will be a huge thing when it happens, since it kind of reminds me of, say, a Super Saiya-Jin.

That said, I enjoyed seeing Natsu have trouble with Max. It gives me hope for the coming arcs, because now Mashima has the opportunity to involve a much wider cast in Fairy Tail's big fights with powerful guilds.

As for the main event of the chapter, the whole Polyushka/Grandine thing, I'll withhold my thoughts on the matter until next chapters offer some clarity on the matter. The thought however intrigues me, and I approve of this plot point. Dragons, taking human form? Layla Heartfilia's disappearance along with the dragons? If Layla was a dragon, what element did she have? Light?

PS, the thought of Zeref being an Acnologia taught darkness/shadow/death dragon slayer intrigues me.

[Quantized]

I've read a lot of explanations about how Natsu is capable of suddenly reproducing the Lightning Flame Dragon techniques imparted to him by Laxus, but I feel that people may be overthinking things. Natsu is a mage, with the specialty fire dragon slayer. He can use other magic if he wants, as one or two omakes have clearly demonstrated. He just chooses not to for the most part, but those little side stories still imply that Natsu is well capable of learning any magic he would put his mind to. Natsu is a bruiser; he loves to fight, so naturally he will focus on his own, naturally destructive fire-based magic. I see the Lightning Fire dragon techniques more as an 'Achievement Unlocked' thing.

There's also the fact that Natsu has eaten, and been hit by, Laxus' lightning magic who knows how many times. It's not so crazy to think that he may eventually get the hang of using it naturally, although maybe not exclusively from fire. It may be likened to the way ninjutsu works in the universe of Naruto, where high level shinobi may unlock secondary and tertiary elemental affinities besides their main one through training or the natural process.

Furthermore, lightning is - like fire - a destructive element. Its properties will lend itself well to combining with fire on a purely offensive basis. Plus, I think that after all those near-death experiences, Natsu deserves a second element to play with. I'm all for him gaining more variation in his attacks and techniques, and hope that the training arc that seems about to be set up will let him increase his magic power reserves, his mastery of fire and lightning, and most of all, his basic fighting abilities. Let's be honest, Natsu was bound to improve in some way sometime. He's gotten visibly stronger through all his battles, but regardless of his growth he's almost always needed power-ups to beat his final opponent of the arc. The reason why I liked his fight with Zancrow is because there I could see Natsu explore his limits, and break them by himself. He may eventually naturally unlock this enigmatic Dragon Force we have seen a few samples of, which I think will be a huge thing when it happens, since it kind of reminds me of, say, a Super Saiya-Jin.

That said, I enjoyed seeing Natsu have trouble with Max. It gives me hope for the coming arcs, because now Mashima has the opportunity to involve a much wider cast in Fairy Tail's big fights with powerful guilds.

As for the main event of the chapter, the whole Polyushka/Grandine thing, I'll withhold my thoughts on the matter until next chapters offer some clarity on the matter. The thought however intrigues me, and I approve of this plot point. Dragons, taking human form? Layla Heartfilia's disappearance along with the dragons? If Layla was a dragon, what element did she have? Light?

PS, the thought of Zeref being an Acnologia taught darkness/shadow/death dragon slayer intrigues me

.

Can see what you mean that some of the members who were left behind actually could fight alongside the main cast is a really interesting thought indeed.
What I got to ponder about though, is whether Natsu, Lucy, Wendy and Gray will grow immensely stronger soon by visiting Grandine/Porlyusica as the chapter said at the end; "Could this chance encounter lead Natsu and their friends into a grand future?"

Assuming 2 things;
Porlyusica is Grandine.
Porlyusica will train them or help them getting stronger somehow, but I don't think it'll be easy and we'll get a lot of "I hate humans humour moments"

I can't see it be anything else, the whole purpose for why they're there is to get stronger afterall. Porlyusica has been with Fairy Tail all along, why should something else change by their visit, than their request...?

Another possibility could be that she reveals details about the dragons.. but why is Gray included then..?

Seems interesting, I can't wait to see what happens

[Casthiel]

Well about the teory of natsu being old and that zeref know him I think natsu is older that its look how about this http://www.mangareader.net/135-7223-...apter-108.html

[kkck]

Ok, there are 3 remarkable events in this chapter really worth commenting on.

The first one is laxus's reinstatement as a member of fairy tail. It is something many were expecting and it made sense since he effectively saved the live of natsu and co, more than enough to make up for his past mistake IMO. Now, that in itself is not the remarkable part of this but rather his attitude when it finally happened. He seemed somewhat reluctant or perhaps remourseful (not sure what the word I am looking for is but you guys get my drift). Now, this would imply laxus has been doing something he should not have during all this time for the most part or perhaps that he has something else to do and being a fairy tail member is not quite viable at the moment. Anyways, at the moment it would seem like whatever laxus was involved with has something to do with his dad. Odds are he got involved although perhaps not as an ally to him but in a similar fashion to gazille as a spy. Or perhaps he just got involved in order to find out his dads deal and make a decision after that. Anyways, we might finally get to see what raven tail is like. This is bound to be interesting as without oracion 6 and with only a depowered and inactive remnant of grimmoire heart ( zeref is bound to be doing a bit in the background though) ivan must have had an ideal chance to get his raven to the top of the underworld. Odds are there is a new trinity of dark guilds with raven tail, tartarus and a new unnamed one.

Now, the second remarkable feature of the chapter is natsu's ability to use lightning fire dragon powers. We have seen natsu eat 3 different kinds of magic before, ethereon, the flame of rebuke and the fire gods flame yet he never got to keep any of them. He always got a temporary boost which he subsequently lost. Now, not only natsu got to keep the lightning but also he got a significantly higher amount of power than what he did before which is strange to say the least. Now, there are two reasons for which I could imagine this happened. He still has some of laxus magic within him (which is unlikely IMO) or it is specifically because of the dragon lachrima which had an effect on him. Still, if this is because of the dragon lachrima which laxus uses then odds are natsu at some point will indeed lose his lightning powers. Still, this fire lightning dragon thing is bound to be a bit of a plot point. Just throwing this out there but if laxus loses his own dragon lachrima (on which ivan had an interest on) the lightning powers natsu has could potentially be the means for laxus to regain his power and for natsu to permanently lose this boost.

Now, the third remarkable feature is the fact that polischuka is grandine. This has very severe implications in many levels. For the first one, we might actually get to see the DS making contact with the dragons which has been a plot point since the start. For another it further implies that there is a deep connection between fairy tail, zeref and the dragons. We have had many reasons to suspect the deep connection for a while now (in particular since zeref was found at tenro island) however with this we have a "the plot thickens" scenario. Another thing to wonder is whether makarov knows polischuka is a dragon and why he would keep the secret if he did. Also, odds are she has been in fairy tail for a while, longer than what makarov has been in fairy tail. Odds are she is also actually guarding whatever is in fairy tail's vault.

[nichendrix]

Something I noticed re-reading the chapter is that Natsu doen't seem to be able to use lightning dragon roar at his will, since before doing it, he concentrated magical power and anounced: Mode Lightning Fire Dragon, and after the roar stepped out of that mode, with his magical power drained.

[ca12nag3]

Something I noticed re-reading the chapter is that Natsu doen't seem to be able to use lightning dragon roar at his will, since before doing it, he concentrated magical power and anounced: Mode Lightning Fire Dragon, and after the roar stepped out of that mode, with his magical power drained.

uhm so because he didnt use lightning dragon roar? what would that mean? He doesnt always use the same moves. I dont think that means anything for or against him being able to do that. I dont think he can do lightning roars tho but thats just what i think ^^"got no evidence for or against it.