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Thread: The Baseball Thread

  1. #166
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    The Mariano Rivera farewell tore is starting. Thankfully, the National League will not be effected.

  2. #167
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Well, it's the end of an era for the Yankees and Yankees fans. It will feel strange to not think of us as favorites to win the AL East every season anymore.

  3. #168
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Closer...the most overvalued position in baseball

  4. #169
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Closer...the most overvalued position in baseball
    Well, you don't want Eric Gagne out there for you or anything. It is overvalued, but you still need a decent pitcher out there. If your relievers suck, you're going to be blowing games.

    Of course, if your team isn't winning games and putting you in positions to actually get saves, you're not going to get them.

  5. #170
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Well, you don't want Eric Gagne out there for you or anything. It is overvalued, but you still need a decent pitcher out there. If your relievers suck, you're going to be blowing games.

    Of course, if your team isn't winning games and putting you in positions to actually get saves, you're not going to get them.
    The point is that they're overpaid. There are only so many Riveras or Hoffmans, etcetcetc. Many pitchers in a good bullpen can step into the role with some success. Everybody wants that ONE guy though. The one with the attitude, or pitches with no fear out there.

  6. #171
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    The point is that they're overpaid. There are only so many Riveras or Hoffmans, etcetcetc. Many pitchers in a good bullpen can step into the role with some success. Everybody wants that ONE guy though. The one with the attitude, or pitches with no fear out there.
    Of course they're overpaid, but that's not the point. You want that one guy to lock down the position and know that you can rely on him in a pressure situation. Throw out a random reliever and chances are that experienced hitters in the ninth inning will make him crack.

    Mike Trout got paid like 87 times less than A-Rod last season, but Mike Trout's clearly the better player. While that's an extreme example, clearly there are better and worse players and there are plenty that are overpaid.

  7. #172
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    My point was that they're overvalued, and therefore overpaid. So yeah.

  8. #173
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    My point was that they're overvalued, and therefore overpaid. So yeah.
    I was saying that while your point had some merit, it wasn't that relevant. The fact is that if you don't have a good bullpen and a solid closer, you will blow games.

  9. #174
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    I was saying that while your point had some merit, it wasn't that relevant. The fact is that if you don't have a good bullpen and a solid closer, you will blow games.
    Well, sure. But I think we both agree that a bullpen is more than just a closer. He's not coming in unless that game is close and you need the middle relief on to record holds just as much as you need a closer to record saves. This isn't the day when every pitcher can throw 7-8 winning innings every outing. I just think clubs going out and paying ridiculous amounts of money for closers is silly, unless it's THE missing piece on your pitching staff and unless it's someone like Rivera. Decades ago there wasn't really such a thing as a closer, as a lot of managers treated the 8th and 9th innings in situational manner, like earlier innings.

  10. #175
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Well, sure. But I think we both agree that a bullpen is more than just a closer. He's not coming in unless that game is close and you need the middle relief on to record holds just as much as you need a closer to record saves. This isn't the day when every pitcher can throw 7-8 winning innings every outing. I just think clubs going out and paying ridiculous amounts of money for closers is silly, unless it's THE missing piece on your pitching staff and unless it's someone like Rivera. Decades ago there wasn't really such a thing as a closer, as a lot of managers treated the 8th and 9th innings in situational manner, like earlier innings.
    Of course it's not just a closer. In my post, I differentiated between the bullpen and the closer. If your middle relief isn't there, your closer can't do anything. In order to win, you need both the middle relievers (these days even a set up man) and a closer. I do think it's a bit ridiculous that some of these guys can't even go an inning before getting tired, however.

    Baseball as a sport has changed, no doubt. Spending insane money on closers/relievers is a bad idea, which is why the Yankees didn't resign Rafael Soriano. What you do need to spend on are the starters. We all know that King Felix's contract is not going to be seen out by the Mariners and that he'll be traded. Giving him that massive contract was the only way to keep him in Seattle for any length of time.

  11. #176
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    For any team, it's best to grow and hold onto your starters. Just look at the track record of big name starters in free agency. It usually doesn't work out.

  12. #177
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    For any team, it's best to grow and hold onto your starters. Just look at the track record of big name starters in free agency. It usually doesn't work out.
    Yeah, lately, none of Roy Halladay, CC, or Cliff Lee really worked out through free agency. Halladay got a perfect game, but apart from that, he hasn't been great. He's been good for the most part, although he's fallen away lately. Cliff Lee has just fallen apart. I never feel confident when CC's on the mound for us.

  13. #178
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Yeah, lately, none of Roy Halladay, CC, or Cliff Lee really worked out through free agency. Halladay got a perfect game, but apart from that, he hasn't been great. He's been good for the most part, although he's fallen away lately. Cliff Lee has just fallen apart. I never feel confident when CC's on the mound for us.
    I think it's symptomatic of how much starting pitching is valued and analyzed. A lot less people are holding onto washed-up talent. You always, always, always have to beware of a decent NL pitcher coming to the AL. That almost never works out.

  14. #179
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    I think it's symptomatic of how much starting pitching is valued and analyzed. A lot less people are holding onto washed-up talent. You always, always, always have to beware of a decent NL pitcher coming to the AL. That almost never works out.
    Precisely.

    We're going to watch last year's NL Cy Young winner R.A. Dickey get roughed up massively this season because he got roughed up by the AL East last season.

  15. #180
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: The Baseball Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Yeah, lately, none of Roy Halladay, CC, or Cliff Lee really worked out through free agency. Halladay got a perfect game, but apart from that, he hasn't been great. He's been good for the most part, although he's fallen away lately. Cliff Lee has just fallen apart. I never feel confident when CC's on the mound for us.
    Roy Halladay won 21 games and the 2010 Cy Young Award at 33 years old. The Phillies won 97 games that year. He won 19 games in 2011, was Cy Young runner up, on a 102 win Phillies team. He was hampered by injuries last year, but played well down the stretch. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...allaro01.shtml

    Cliff Lee was brilliant in half a season with the Phillies, helping them to 93 wins and the 2009 World Series, losing to C.C. Sabathia and the Yankees. He returned to the Phillies in 2011, winning 17 games on a 102 win team, finishing third in Cy Young voting behind Clayton Kershaw and Roy Halladay. He pitched well last year, with lack of run support killing his record. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl.../leecl02.shtml

    In four seasons with the Yankees, C.C. Sabathia has won 19, 21, 19, and 15 games. Pitching in the AL East he has given up less than a HR a game (HR/9) every season, except 2012. He was the best pitcher on the 2009 World Series champion Yankees. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...abatc.01.shtml

    All three can be considered good free agent (technically trade) pick ups, with Halladay and Sabathia being particularly good.

    ---------- Post added March 17, 2013 at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was March 11, 2013 at 12:44 AM ----------

    Predictions:

    NL East
    1. Nationals: 95 - 100 wins
    2. Braves: 90 - 95 wins
    3. Phillies: 80 - 85 wins
    4. Mets: 70 - 75 wins
    5. Marlins: 60 - 65 wins
    NL Central
    1. Cincinnati: 90 - 95 wins
    2. St. Louis: 85 - 90 wins
    3. Milwaukee: 85 - 90 wins
    4. Pittsburgh: 70 - 75 wins
    5. Chicago Cubs: 65 - 70 wins
    NL West
    1. San Fransisco: 90 - 95 wins
    2. Los Angeles 80 - 85 wins
    3. Arizona: 80 - 85 wins
    4. San Diego: 75 - 80 wins
    5. Colorado: 60 - 65 wins
    AL East
    1. Baltimore: 90 - 95 wins
    2. Tampa: 85 - 90 wins
    3. Toronto: 85 - 90 wins
    4. New York: 75 - 80 wins
    5. Boston: 70 - 75 wins
    AL Central
    1. Detroit: 85 - 90 wins
    2. Chicago White Sox: 85 - 90 wins
    3. Cleveland: 75 - 80 wins
    4. Kansas City: 75 - 80 wins
    5. Minnesota: 70 - 75 wins
    Al West
    1. Oakland: 90 - 95 wins
    2. Anaheim: 80 - 85 wins
    3. Texas: 80 - 85 wins
    4. Seattle: 75 - 80 wins
    5. Houston: 50 - 55 wins
    NL Wild Card:
    1. Atlanta
    2. St. Louis
    AL Wild Card:
    1. Tampa
    2. Toronto
    Boring, but I see little changing in the NL. The best teams last year either bolstered their lineup, or stood pat. The Dodgers made the splashiest moves, but I hate the composition of their team. I refuse to predict the playoffs for any team starting Josh Beckett, Hanley Ramirez, and Carl Crawford. San Fransisco is worlds better, and kept their entire team together. I'm not sure what to expect from Arizona. They have some solid players, but I'm not sure they have a complete team. I still could see them finishing ahead of LA. In the central, Milwaukee would have had a chance at the playoffs last year, if not for a horrible bullpen. That should be improved this season. Singing Tom Gorzelanny and Mike Gonzalez were good, savvy moves. Both were solid in long relief for the Nationals last year. Not all stars, but definite solutions to a major issue. If Josh Axford returns to form, the Brewers should push St. Louis for one of the wild card spots. In the east, I don't love the Upton brothers, but they should add some power to the Braves lineup. Between B.J, Justin, and Dan Uggla expect the Braves to lead the league in strike outs.

    In the American league east I think the Orioles have the best overall lineup in the division, to go with solid starting pitching, and great closers. Toronto is getting all the hype, but I think there pitching is suspect. I like Dickey, and glad he is out of the NL East. I think that Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle though are washed up. Neither looked good in a cavernous, pitchers park last year. I still think they have enough to get a wild card spot. Tampa is suspect on offense, for now. I have a feeling Wil Meyers will be called up in late April, anchor the middle of their lineup, and win AL rookie of the year. With their pitching, that should be enough to earn the other wild card spot. In the central, neither Detroit nor Chicgao improved. Detroit should win the division, Chicago will probably fall just short of the wild card. Oakland will run away with the West. Anaheim is overrated. Trout is good, otherwise I don't like their lineup. Pujols struggled last year, has struggled in spring training, and probably will struggle this year. Maybe he will hit for average, his days hitting for power seem over. Hamilton's power numbers should go down, moving from a bandbox in Arlington, to a pitcher's park in Anaheim. Seattle is mediocre, Houston is terrible. Their new hats are nice though.

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