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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
But why no? WB was a very good example. He was not only slashed, but also stabbed countless times during the War.
Also, Luffy's actual problem is that he is a rubber man, so to tank a slash he needs to use Haki. And I would actually dare to say that now with his usage of Haki he can at least tank slashes of pre-timeskip Zoro.
Actually if Zoro wanted to slash Hodi's last transformation... he will first need to hit him. Considering Zoro is way slower than Hodi's last transformation in the water...
I would agree in that haki would grant enough protection to luffy to withstand on its own a slash from pre time skip zoro. Then again, 100 pre time skip zoros would be fodder to the current luffy.... Not sure how much faster than anyone hodi would be underwater though, I really don't get that impression at all. Zoro was able to basically speedblitz pre transformation hodi and post transformation hodi was not able to even avoid luffy's attacks for the most part. The way I see it in an underwater fight hodi would get either slashed or burnt (or both lol) if he gets anywhere near zoro or sanji who to boot do not have as many limitations as luffy has underwater. Heck, I honestly don't think sanji would even have trouble keeping up with hodi underwater at all, he is the most ideal for the fight.
I think you guys thinkin to much about how Luffy performed against these guys,i suggest you to think more about how they performed against Luffy.I just reread fight with Rob Lucci and in my opinion he was much...MUCH stronger then Luffy in gear 2nd...basicly he was toying with him,he tanked hes direct giant pistol on hes free will and nomerous times striked Luffy down and was an O.K. when Luffy was lying down hardly catchin hes breath(untill Ussop arives and do the plot-kai).
And in case with Hody it was exact opposite...Hody gone all out from the beggining and barely could touch Luffy...even in underwater fight he didnt manage to case any serious wounds...and basicly he didnt show any "interesting" moves...the only note about him it's "hes tanky"...thats...kinda...eem...so what? oO
Rob Lucci also have shigan with wich he makes a holes in you with each strike...so in like 5 minuts of fight Hody will be full of holes and loosing hes blood rapidly...plus this nasty strike wich hit trough you even if you block(i forgot its origins but Luffy mention skypea so it is also have somethin to do with haki,wich mean Rob have it,yes)...
So to put it short:in ground battle my bets on Rob Lucci.
Actually before timeskip Luffy was the fastest in the crew without any other options. Now he is still the fastest, but at least Sanji is also fast. Also I try to explain that before using pills Hodi was fodder that can be taken out by Franky or Chopper, but after his continious transformations he got faster than mermen in water and we know that mermen are fastest in water. Sanji was compared to Fishmen in water and it was also way higher in water, when he fought Kraken. It is practically two times lower and we know that water pressure will rise way more than two times if we compare 5000 meters and 10000 meters, so Sanji won't be as fast as he was against Kraken. Hodi doesn't have such limitations. Also about being slashed and burnt. .. Hodi has range attacks as water bullet or that attack that he used with his two hands (he also tried to use it before he was smashed with Elephant Gun ), so he doesn't need to get close to Zoro and Sanji. Also you shoud take in consideration that for Zoro to make his strongest attacks he needs to get out of the bubble and the same is for Sanji to perform Blue Walk. And of course they have oxygen limitations, so they can't fight Hodi the same way Luffy did.
That move is Rokugan. Secret Rokushiki move.
Actually I would say that Hodi in water will kill Lucci. Hodi managed to survive after Luffy made a hole in him using Red Hawk, when Ace died after the same attack. So in terms of taking damage Hodi is really a beast. And Hodi does have some serrious attacks like water bullet that he used in Plaza. That attack was blocked only by Jimbei and we know that he is on the same level as Ace and Ace was quite a beast. Also take in a consideration Hodi's teeth. He managed to inflict a wound to Luffy with them even though Luffy used Haki. I would think that the same Zoro or Sanji would have lost there hands after such an attack. Don't know about Lucci and his Tekkai in such a situation, though, but at least it would have been no less than Luffy's wound.
Come on seriously, why did I held back a couple of days ago. Why are they fighting UNDER WATER!? What have Sanji/Zorro/Luffy to do with the fight between those two? They are different characters and mean different match-ups & possibilities. Lucci is a Zoan users, the real head of the now ex-CP9, using slashes or piercing attacks, he would never fight deep under. You make water pressure a issue here? We saw Luffy fight at high speed just above FI, but with Sanji it's a problem?
Please stay on topic, it painfully reminds me of the Mihawk VS Shanks thread.[Anduren it was him wasn it? and Blackhair might remember]
There is no hole, I don't get where you came to that conclusion, there is no fist stucking out of Hodys body. Looking at the picture, I wonder if a hole the size of Luffys fist would make much difference to his "huge" body to other blunt, but extremely powerful attacks from luffy.
It might have burned him, but that might be an effect of the shock wave at his back, not unlike FK techniques from Jinbe, which seem to be wandering through the fluids of a body.
Another point: Hody has the capabilties to tank with that kind of body and the display of his to take Luffys attacks, but he also seems to be unfamiliar with taking hits, especially piercing ones, as with Luffy's Snake Shot.
That could make him an easy victim to Luccis numerous bites/slashes/pierces or the mentioned Rokushiki forms, if it wasn't for the shown resilience.
My opinion that Hody would have the edge over Lucci, even if it's just a bit stands.
The whole "merman are the fastest while underwater" thing has to be taken into context. That logic would work only when the 2 people we are comparing are of the same level. If we compare a normal mermaid against any other normal creature of the sea (sea kings and sea beasts for example) the mermaid would naturally be the faster but once you get into beings who exceed the norm things change a decent bit. Hodi is a prime example, he gained a lot of strength and thus was able to surpass a mermaid. In this regard, anyone with enough strength should also be able to swim faster than a mermaid regardless of the norm. Luffy had his limitations even with the bubble, the sea drains his strength. That would not be the case at all with either zoro or sanji. Sanji has a special underwater movement technique and zoro already showed he could blitz hodi. I would think that either of them would be able to go out of the bubble and defeat hodi before they run out of oxygen. The issue here is that at least zoro was already shown to be strong enough to make fodder out of hodi and sanji is never that far behind. Heck, for another comparison, wasn't hyozu stronger than hodi by quite a bit to begin with? Post transformation hodi was not able to block a punch from luffy while this guy was able to do it before his transformation and even after the transformation he was not match whatsoever for zoro.
I think you just didn't get my point. I was trying to say that even though Luffy's attacks are insanely strong (if just his partly Gear 2 punch with Haki and without hardening efffect destroyed Pacifista (not only KOed it, but also made it explode)), so that is an indication of Hodi's toughness. That's why I don't think that Lucci's attacks that are nowhere near current Luffy's attacks will make any problem for Hodi.
Also I do believe that Hodi's attacks are at least at the same level of strength as Lucci's or maybe even stronger.
About Red Hawk... I won't change my opinion until it will be shown in anime, cause now it looks more like he made a hole in Hodi's body. At least for me.
P.S. Please, read what I wrote and why and don't judge before that. Especially when you tried to compare my post with some other guy.
---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------
I would agree on your explanation of Hodi's strength and speed, but still he is the fastest in Fishman Island in water with the exeption of maybe Jimbei. Sanji was shown to be fast, but we also don't know to what degree. I can agree that Zoro and Sanji can win, but we also can't judge how much stronger Hodi became after Zoro fought against him. When the pills were introduced we heard that the first pill doubles your power and the second doubles again, but Hodi ate about 10 pills, so it can be a serious problem for Zoro or Sanji if the fight was in water. In land I agree that Zoro and Sanji can win against him, but still not that easily as we saw him taking pretty much damage against Luffy.
Also yes he managed to one-shoted Hodi in their encounter, but then he needed to breath, but now I don't think that he will have the opotunity to breath and don't think he will one-shot Hodi, so it won't be easy. And even though he defeated Hyozou rather easy he was still using his three swods attacks and they should be quite strong. Even though he fought not that long he used rather strong attacks judging from the number of swords he normally uses, when he fights easy opponents..
Well, obviously the strength of lucci's attacks is nowhere near the current luffy. I don't see where this thing about lucci being stronger than pre time skip luffy is coming from. If lucci was stronger he would have won the fight. Both of them fought to the bitter end and the worst case scenario is that they are equal. It just does not make a shred of sense for lucci to be superior to luffy. Now, how would lucci as we last saw him compare to current luffy? If lucci actually was fodder compared to current luffy he would actually be several times stronger than what he is. Lucci compared to current luffy is massively weaker and massively slower than luffy, there is simply no contest as to this. Lucci was never strong when compared to actual strong people, he at best had the level of rookies who we already saw that even with their entire crew could barely beat a pacifista. Hodi wins simply because none of lucci's attacks would be able to harm him. And current luffy would one shot 10 luccis easily.
Lucci wins this... quite easily...
Hody cannot handle his speed on land... PERIOD...
Shigan is exactly like Snake Shot, and Lucci wouldn't be afraid to go straight for the kill...
Rankyuu (the leg slash) raining down from above would assimilate Hody
Not to mention Geppou, what exactly is Hody going to do to take him down, I doubt he'll deal with that even half as good as the strawhats
Hell... and then he definitely doesn't have Luffy's will power, Lucci's insults would alone crush Hody's morale... he'd probably overdose on pills trying to get the adavantage... and while he's in pain, Rokugan - Largest Ring... Game Over...
---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 PM ----------
I think you guys are grossly underestimating Luffy before the timeskip... He definitely had the strength to deal with many top tiers... just no way to hit em...
Rokugan bypasses the body like an Impact Dial...
Lucci would overwhelm him with speed, coolness, and overall more Lethalization...
and not to mention, Hody cannot hit Rob Lucci... He'll just dodge all of his attacks... "ALL OF HIS ATTACKS"
I think some of you forgot what it means to be a master of Rokushiki
^Why would lucci's attacks have an effect on hodi when even luffy's haki enhanced new attacks are not enough to take him down? That is a gross overstimation of the speed and power lucci has. Lucci does not even have the power to take down a mere pacifista, why in the world would his attacks work against a creature that much more resitance? It makes no sense whatsoever. Even in terms of speed I doubt lucci would have an edge if any.
You mean assasinaion and lethality, don't create words.:P
As kkck mentioned, I don't see how you were able to compare their speed, even less with Bizarrohody, who had no equal on Fisherman Island, but probably Jinbe[citizens no one else] in strength and no one in speed. As if Hody would care about coolness, just as about lethality, they are in equal in that characteristic.Quote:
Hody may be able to tank powerful attacks... but Lucci is damn powerful... and he has a lot of stamina... Hody is nowhere near the speed of Gear 2nd... or Soru in general... Hody isn't agile or as battle ready as Luffy...
Shigan will rip through Hody's retina's, ears, nostrils, gills, anus, ect...
Rankakyu will put his body through hell... he obviously isn't that great against cutting attacks (Zoro)
Soru will ensure that Lucci keeps his speed advantage
Kami-E will ensure he dodges any amateur fishman-karate
Geppou will give him the freedom to rain down attacks over Hody
Tekkai will be more than enough to block that fishman technique, should Hody go through the impossible and hit Lucci
and when Hody is finally passing out due to pure one-sideness I just mentioned... a Rokugan will end him...
Honestly, Rob Lucci was highly overpowered... Hody would be wrecked... no speed, no agility, and weak technique...
---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------
And being the fastest on Fishmen Island, is like being the Greatest Swordsman on Fishmen Island... it don't mean shit to someone who is simply better than you overall...
You make baseless claims about how Hody would fare against Rokushiki techniques, so let me try to do the same.
Hodys trident, shark arrows, his teeth and his sword on his back attack will rip Lucci apart. More pills will ensure his speed and power advantage. -> One or two attacks will hit and weaken Lucci. So will he pierce him or will he be a coward and us shockwave attacks?? *simplified for effect*
In the end Lucci wasn't able to take a normal jet gatling, while Hody took attacks a couple magnitude stronger than the first mentioned technque.
You say that my claims are baseless... but all I'm doing is looking at the facts... I doubt that any of those attacks will even touch Lucci...
Lucci may not have the physical power to one shot him... but he is more than quick enough to dodge and has many ways to damage Hodi without touching him...
Unless you think Hodi can kill Lucci in one hit then I doubt he'll be able to get more than one strike...
I voted Hody just because of he could tank a lot of what Rob Lucci can dish out. That said, I do think that Rob Lucci has been shown to be faster, Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember Hody being shown moving at Soru or Gear 2 level speeds He does have much greater strength and is built like a tank, not sure how many attacks it would take for Hody to take out Rob Lucci, but I think Hody would win mainly because of his stamina and ability to take hits.