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View Poll Results: Menos Grande Evolution

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  • Gradual

    3 60.00%
  • Instantaneous

    2 40.00%
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Thread: Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
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    Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

    This is something that has been bothering me for a while. We all know the three classes of menos grande. Gillian, Adjucas, and Vasto Lorde.

    Alright so hollows evolve by eating hollows of course. However, upon becoming gillians, the many consciousnesses of all the hollow cause the creature to be a mindless being.

    Though rare exceptions occur where one of the many personalities or egos of the hollow that make it up become dominant and in which case a unique mask is sported compared to the generic gillian mask.

    It is these beings that I like to call 'sentient gillian'.

    Now that I've reached that part I want to say that we have never really seen a 'sentient gillian' become a adjuchas. Yet we have seen what seems to have been a sentient gillian in the form of Nakeem. Grimmjow's silent fraccion that fought Rangiku.

    In Grimmjow's flashback to his days as an adjuchas, Nakeem appears to have a unique mask while still wearing the gillian black cloak, yet he still looked different than gillian besides just his mask in my opinion. If the transformation is gradual, was he then some kind of sub-adjuchas?

    The only depiction of a normal hollow becoming a gillian is in the anime and it is a spontaneous thing.

    Another example of a strange gillian would be the one that fought Uryuu and that Ryuuken subsequently destroyed. It too had a unique mask

    Anyway I had been thinking that it would be weird for the transformation to be instantaneous. It's like a strong adjuchas has eaten so many hollows for example, and it only needs one more measly hollow to completely and dramatically transform into a VL and gain exponentially more power with the transformation?

    But then you say "no, he wouldn't exponentially gain more power at that specific point, as it had been gaining power all along with each hollow it ate".

    Then I say back "So by eating that last hollow, he didn't really gain a ton more power by turning into a VL. Rather, it was just an aesthetic transformation? That as he was before he ate the last hollow, would be able to fight on about the same level as he is now, a transformed VL? And that by saying it was gaining power all along(i.e. gradually), that it wouldn't then logically have a 'gradual' transformation instead?"

    That scenario only scrathes the surface however. I want to bring up that not all hollows are created equal right? Can I assume there is no "objective" specific number of hollows that all hollows have to reach to 'instantly' transform to the each next level right?

    If we are under the assumption that transformations are an instant phenomenon, that's theres a possibility of a scenario with a very strong adjucas, being stronger than a newly transformed or just weaker VL if they indeed, don't exponentially gain more power upon their transformation

    I don't know. At this point I am just confused.. So somebody set me straight or provide some other perspectives please

    (Don't get me started on Superchunky(aka Fura), but I also have a theory on that which involves a little word called 'retrogression'....)
    Last edited by Revolation; November 23, 2011 at 09:08 PM.
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  2. #2
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

    I was just reading through the "Historia de Pantera y sus Sombras" chapter, and this and another instance when Grand Fisher explained how hollows become stronger, it seems that every hollow/human/shinigami they eat increases their power, so this is already solved. In Gillian -> Adjucha case, the hollows probably become smaller every time, until they become humanoid and can be considered Vasto Lorde, but there is no set scale to determine the hollow's actual level in their current rank.

  3. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
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    Re: Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Newbie. View Post
    I was just reading through the "Historia de Pantera y sus Sombras" chapter, and this and another instance when Grand Fisher explained how hollows become stronger, it seems that every hollow/human/shinigami they eat increases their power, so this is already solved. In Gillian -> Adjucha case, the hollows probably become smaller every time, until they become humanoid and can be considered Vasto Lorde, but there is no set scale to determine the hollow's actual level in their current rank.
    Yeah, that last part is especially true for somebody like Grimmjow. Just wish we had more info on hollow transformation
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  4. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
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    Re: Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

    More info:


    Also, I just realized Aaroniero say he had eaten like 33,650 hollows, and he was a canon Gillian Arrancar.

    Shawlong said Grimjow's group had eaten like 3000 adjucas hollows. Split among the 5 of them that's 600 adjucas.

    These concrete numbers give us a better idea of the scope of how much they have to do to evolve. If it truly menos evolution is a gradual phenomenon, this makes alot of sense. Instant transformation where they suddenly gain the next tier level of power doesn't makes sense to me. This is why the anime's depiction of a hollow-->gillian evolution disturbs me so since people use that to prove that 'instantaneous' argument.

    It's just that people place the menos classes(gillian, adjucas, VL) on tier level types. If their evolution is indeed gradual and not instantaneous then the line is blured and that destroys all previous conceptions.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolation View Post
    More info:


    Also, I just realized Aaroniero say he had eaten like 33,650 hollows, and he was a canon Gillian Arrancar.

    Shawlong said Grimjow's group had eaten like 3000 adjucas hollows. Split among the 5 of them that's 600 adjucas.

    These concrete numbers give us a better idea of the scope of how much they have to do to evolve. If it truly menos evolution is a gradual phenomenon, this makes alot of sense. Instant transformation where they suddenly gain the next tier level of power doesn't makes sense to me. This is why the anime's depiction of a hollow-->gillian evolution disturbs me so since people use that to prove that 'instantaneous' argument.

    It's just that people place the menos classes(gillian, adjucas, VL) on tier level types. If their evolution is indeed gradual and not instantaneous then the line is blured and that destroys all previous conceptions.
    There are enough hollows for a few to become powerful, after all, 170,000 people die daily out of which maybe up to half may become hollows, so about 30,000,000 hollows a year. There's still what Shawlong said about not feeling any stronger at some point, it must really be just a matter of potential.

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    Little tocs-Coming Soon 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

    I don't suppose the evolution should be instantaneous. About the numbers, they could vary with individuals. I tend to believe its more to do with the potential.

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  9. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
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    Re: Menos Grande evolution. Gradual or Instantaneous?

    Quote Originally Posted by thornofcarrion View Post
    I don't suppose the evolution should be instantaneous. About the numbers, they could vary with individuals. I tend to believe its more to do with the potential.
    I agree with the varying thing. it's like I said, every hollow is not created equal, so there should be no 'objective number of hollows eaten' to reach news evolutionary stages. I just pointed out Aaroniero because he's provided the only actual concrete value. Even Shawlong's value was ambiguous since he just say 'they've eaten 3000 hollows since they formed their group'. That can be interpreted alot of ways. 3000 hollows all together, or split even, etc. Plus not all of the hollows in that group were even complete adjucas, like Nakeem for example.


    But yeah, I'm guessing it's potential as well. Thanks for the input
    Last edited by Revolation; August 08, 2012 at 10:36 AM.
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