Hunter x Hunter Chapter 327 Discussion

[Jack Van Burace]

@ Phantron: I think he mentions being dragged by a previously setup "bubble-gum" in order to move around. That way Hisoka's speed = his gum's shrinking speed. And it explains how he ended up hanging on top of Gotoh with it: he was being dragged by his own gum the whole time.

EDIT: Here!

http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/18

He mentions he was under the elastic gum attraction the whole time, but he was also "glued" by his legs so that's why he didn't move. Whenever he released the gum on his legs, he would be fired into the other previously setup gums bound to him.

[Reach]

Hisoka's speed is not really the issue I have. It's that he was able to escape his own nen without any damage and the coins were already trapped at point blank distance. If he released his Bungee Gum were the coins were, shouldn't that have continued to hit him or rip his arms apart from the coins' force?

[Uriel]

If He is travelling dragged by the shrinking effect of the gum, then the rotation of the body would not be an issue since he can rotate with the coins. If He's able to attach one coin per tree He touches, then it's very likely to use the rotation as bullets since now they have speed due the gum effect.

[Phantron]

@ Phantron: I think he mentions being dragged by a previously setup "bubble-gum" in order to move around. That way Hisoka's speed = his gum's shrinking speed. And it explains how he ended up hanging on top of Gotoh with it: he was being dragged by his own gum the whole time.

EDIT: Here!

http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/18

He mentions he was under the elastic gum attraction the whole time, but he was also "glued" by his legs so that's why he didn't move. Whenever he released the gum on his legs, he would be fired into the other previously setup gums bound to him.

Problem is that if his leg is attached to something Gotoh should've been able to see it instead of going "???" If Gotoh didn't use Gyo then we have another 'newbie who doesn't know how to handle In' which means the whole fight is utterly pointless. If Gotoh can see where he's attached to then it'd be pretty easy for him to aim where the recoil would take him to.

I know right now they make it look like you can store the recoil ahead of time but his power is supposed to be bubblegum, not a spring. If you exert force against it, it's supposed to recoil immediately, not store it for future use. If you can store the recoil you can just say take an object, punch it against the bubblegum at full speed, and then store the recoil and then use it to launch a full power attack at any time. When you can use abilities like that you start getting into the danger zone of nonsensical guaranteed win scenarios. I know he used his ability but it'd make more sense if Hisoka was just that fast. Right now his power is turning into a portable jetpack since he seems to be able to use the recoil on demand for a burst of super speed.

[Salce]

Problem is that if his leg is attached to something Gotoh should've been able to see it instead of going "???" If Gotoh didn't use Gyo then we have another 'newbie who doesn't know how to handle In' which means the whole fight is utterly pointless. If Gotoh can see where he's attached to then it'd be pretty easy for him to aim where the recoil would take him to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are techniques that can not be seen even using Gyo.

[Phantron]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are techniques that can not be seen even using Gyo.

Unless otherwise specified (i.e. Meleoron's ability is hidden via all forms of detection), Gyo must be able to see through anything aura-related. Now you can do like what Morel did by making the smoke look like say, grass, but I don't think Hisoka can apply his camoflauge ability on top of his gum. Even if he could, it seems like he went straight up to avoid the attack, which means the gum has to be attached to something above him. In this case no amount of camoflauge can hide the fact that you got something that looks like a bungee cord attached to a spot above you.

I was under the impression that his gum was below his feet and when he released it, it gave him some kind of super jump ability, and Gotoh can't see it because it was beneath his feet. However in that case his ability becomes some kind of portable jetpack and he can just attach it to his back for a burst of speed too, and nobody can see it since it'd be attached to behind him (assuming Hisoka never turns his back to his enemy).

[Teubier]

Problem is that if his leg is attached to something Gotoh should've been able to see it instead of going "???" If Gotoh didn't use Gyo then we have another 'newbie who doesn't know how to handle In' which means the whole fight is utterly pointless. If Gotoh can see where he's attached to then it'd be pretty easy for him to aim where the recoil would take him to.

It's pretty much a given that Gotoh didn't use his Gyo before : "Something to do with his ability ?". So, yes, he kind of was a newbie in the nen battles area compared to Hisoka. I'm not saying that he was that much weaker but he was far too reckless and a bit smug (sending off his two sidekicks so fast), Butler's pride can be deadly. But that doesn't make the whole fight utterly pointless IMO, it's not only some Hisoka-Time for us fanatics out there , but also a tiny reminder of what Hisoka is (a tricky character who takes pleasure in playing with his prey, like Uriel hinted earlier) and what his skills are. It makes sense to me because this arc, for now, even though introducing a lot of new variables and characters, really feels like a revival of HxH's pre-Ant arc spirit and storyline (still not any hiatus in sight right ? ). The fact that they're more or less refurbishing the whole anime makes me think that they're trying to reach a younger audience that didn't enjoy HxH at its beginning.

I know right now they make it look like you can store the recoil ahead of time but his power is supposed to be bubblegum, not a spring. If you exert force against it, it's supposed to recoil immediately, not store it for future use. If you can store the recoil you can just say take an object, punch it against the bubblegum at full speed, and then store the recoil and then use it to launch a full power attack at any time. When you can use abilities like that you start getting into the danger zone of nonsensical guaranteed win scenarios. I know he used his ability but it'd make more sense if Hisoka was just that fast. Right now his power is turning into a portable jetpack since he seems to be able to use the recoil on demand for a burst of super speed.

That's not really storing the recoil, but temporarily delaying the elasticity's effect (Bungee Gum = Bubble Gum & Rubber Band, so spring is a can do), that's not exactly the same thing [Edit : or maybe it is in our minds, I'm not completely sure I understand what you mean by storing the recoil, what I mean is that the elasticity effect imbued object doesn't have to be attached to him, he can reach it later on by linking it back to him or to any other spot at any moment ~there might a length limit though~. I see the use of the sticky effect on his legs only as a way to flee even faster (assuming that he brought back the link from the cards a few seconds before fleeing, like firing a catapult : Hisoka being the rock, the rubber band being the nen thread from the cards and the mecanism used to postpone the launch being the Bubble Gum on his feet and the ground), so it does seem feasible to me that he could do it the other way around to launch object faster toward his opponents kinda like what you may find far fetched.]. And he did it already against Kastro back in the Celestial Tower, with his severed arm flying to Kastro's chin and against Gon's cheek with the piece of rock. So I don't really get how ?
Frankly, until now, it seemed more like a tool to fool around when facing weak opponents to me.

As to how Hisoka avoided getting hurt by Gotoh's whirling coins, too much laziness already , and Uriel's explanation makes enough sense to me, whichever way he sped (powerful legs and/or pansy gum pattern with the cards).

[Uriel]

Unless otherwise specified (i.e. Meleoron's ability is hidden via all forms of detection), Gyo must be able to see through anything aura-related. Now you can do like what Morel did by making the smoke look like say, grass, but I don't think Hisoka can apply his camoflauge ability on top of his gum. Even if he could, it seems like he went straight up to avoid the attack, which means the gum has to be attached to something above him. In this case no amount of camoflauge can hide the fact that you got something that looks like a bungee cord attached to a spot above you.

In. You're forgetting In. Which is only counter with Ryu focused in the eyes. Which we all know it's not the best of the movements.

[Phantron]

If you can't handle In you're already going to die in many horrible ways. In general fights dealing with In become so ridiculous that you pretty much have to assume it gets countered immediately or people will just die in absolutely ridiculous ways. You might as well say what if one of the coin Gotoh used was materialized and thus hidden and that coin kills Hisoka in one hit by hitting him in the head, since Hisoka wasn't specifically mentioned as using Gyo. In is pretty much a retired concept in HXH because every fight would either be over immediately or you'd have to be reminded every time that all the characters are always using the aura vision so that they don't mysteriously die to unseen attacks.

Gotoh can see that Hisoka used an ability but he doesn't know what the ability does. Like Morel said it is perfectly normal to have no idea what the other guy's ability is because characters in HXH don't get to consult the narrator's explanation of whatever's going on. From his point of view he can see Hisoka used something to stop his coins. There's no obvious way for him to deduce that the ability makes things stick/recoil. This isn't Bleach where it's normal that the first thing your opponent does is explain what all his abilities do.

If you can delay the recoil effect you have a personal jetpack with no drawback. In GI when Gon and Killua were doing 'super jump' they have to focus all their aura on their feet, which implies there's an inherent risk to any sudden burst of speed (because you're using all your aura for the speed in that instant). That is, even in HXH people don't normally jump the height of several buildings without focusing their aura at one point, which is always potentially vulnerable. Yes Hisoka can do that with his cards too but here the attack is no powerful than what you'd expect from an Emission user so the fact that he can delay it is okay.

Hisoka, as a character, appears to be fairly balanced in physical attribute and thus does not possess speed as a special attribute/ability (as opposed to say Killua, Cheetu, or even Feitan). That is, his speed should not be more exceptional compared to say his strength, and Gotoh was able to match him in strength and yet his speed was way faster than Gotoh can even react. Yet, if an ability can be used as if it's just equivalent of 'super speed' without drawback, then that's inherently too powerful. Bubblegum isn't a form of prolonged energy storage, or even a temporary one. Being able to store energy without drawback is probably too powerful of an abilty too. What doesn't he just punch a patch of gum with all his power, store the power, and then later punch someone normally and stick that patch of gum and then release it? There are way too many broken applications you can do with an ability that can store full energy for even a relatively short time. Besides, if you assume Hisoka started out the fight with the energy stored (there is no indication he applied the effect midcombat), it's long enough for him to introduce himself, throw a card barrage, talk some more, block a round of counterattack, and then release it. It might as well be a personal jetpack at this point if you can save up energy for that long.

[Tombadgerlock]

It's not storing power.

His Bungee gum has the proprieties of Glue and of Rubber at once. Here, he used the proprieties of Rubber on his feet to 'compress' and the proprities of glue to 'guid' to the next card when he stopped compressing.

[ashher]

I don't think it was mere speed either. Gotoh was saying that hisoka had two options, to release his nen and get hit by coins or to continue his nen and get twisted by it. Later he remarked that the problem was solved by hisoka releasing nen from his feet. His feets were attached to the thrown cards(which were lost in jungle) by rubber/gum, which has elasticity. Once hisoka released the stretched rubber, his body was moving freely. Hisoka's body was moving sort of like an arrow from stretched bowstring, after the bowstring was released. Now that hisoka's body was free moving, it could rotate freely along with the rotation of the coins. That is the only logical explanation of what transpired in the chapter and to how hisoka avoided getting twisted by his nen in the hands without releasing it. As to why Gotoh couldn't see hisoka's feet being connected with cards is difficult to understand. Only explanation that comes to me is that its like a rope trick from a magician, placing the ropes in such way that the viewers can't see(a basic magic technique). Not seeing the cards themselves is easier to understand as they were scattered in the jungle and got lost from vision.

[Phantron]

They're in a forest, not a carefully picked area where stuff can be camoflauged due to background lighting. Aura sticks out rather obviously in any environment (it's basically glowing light). If there is any vertical movement, then even camoflauge (and thus far he never used the texture on top of the gum) is useless because you can't camoflauge a thread-like object going straight up in open space. The only way to have these aura threads without being seen is if they only go horizontal on the ground level, or that they only up along the base of a tree. In this case your body would get scrapped as you're dragged through ground/tree/whatever. That won't hurt him but you'll defintely see tears so the lack of such thing indicates he didn't drag himself on the ground (not to mention dragging yourself across the ground should be rather obvious to see). Besides, the picture suggests Hisoka went up first since the last picture suggested that he's attached to a point fairly high up above ground.

If Hisoka was supposed to go from aura thread to aura thread like tarzan, then the threads have to be fairly visible given aura is an object that tends to stand out compared to natural surroundings. If they're hidden with In and Gotoh can't see it then he never made it past Aura 101 and shouldn't be fighting in the first place. Now that wouldn't help Gotoh stopping the attack but he was never supposed to be on Hisoka's level anyway.

[roggie]

Hisoka's rubber doesn't store energy, but i guess he can add the rubber power anytime he want. Otherwise kastro should had felt something pulling his chin http://www.mangareader.net/207-14064...hapter-55.html

[Uriel]

There is levels on In as much as there is levels on Gyo. Not every Zetsu user is perfect, and it can be detected by monster. I consider Hisoka a master in hiding, since most of his tricks involves it.

Even if Gotoh used Ryu in his eye, it's very likely Hisoka is perfect to hide part of his aura.

[Phantron]

Hisoka's rubber doesn't store energy, but i guess he can add the rubber power anytime he want. Otherwise kastro should had felt something pulling his chin http://www.mangareader.net/207-14064...hapter-55.html

Where is the recoil coming from against Gotoh? If the rubber is outstretched, then you should see something like a bungee cord attached to his feet somewhere. If it's in a neutral state attached to his feet, then he'd have to exert some force to get the recoil. Does he stomp the ground really hard and the recoil bounce him straight up? How's that even different from just jumping?

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

There is levels on In as much as there is levels on Gyo. Not every Zetsu user is perfect, and it can be detected by monster. I consider Hisoka a master in hiding, since most of his tricks involves it.

Even if Gotoh used Ryu in his eye, it's very likely Hisoka is perfect to hide part of his aura.

There's no such thing as a higher level of In, otherwise you get into a nonsensical battle of higher level Gyo versus even higher level In. You can just throw an aura projectile in someone's face and say, "I used a higher level In compared to normal, you're dead." Gyo has to see through any level of In no matter what. It's a guaranteed counter to hidden abilities unless the ability itself says otherwise (i.e. Meleoron's ability evades all form of detection).

Gyo won't see through camoflauges, i.e. the texture ability or Morel's smoke camoflauge. I assume here despite these abilities involve aura in the first place, whatever you camoflauge actually looks like the real object instead of glowing, so you can say make smoke look like grass, and someone with Gyo will only see something that looks like grass (otherwise all camo techniques are useless due to the fact that they're powered by aura). However, you can't camoflauge something in the middle of open space. If Hisoka needs to go anywhere in the vertical direciton, then he's got to have a cord-like object attached to somewhere above him, and you can't hide that no matter what.

Zetsu is absolute too. The most you can do is not feel anyone's aura at all. But just because you can't feel someone's aura doesn't mean you can't find them. If I trip over a rock while having perfect Zetsu, you'd still hear it. In the case of Kalluto it's implied that Hisoka is so sensitive that he can probably hear Kalluto's footsteps from a long distance away, and whether Kalluto has great or poor Zetsu is irrelevent because Hisoka heard him.