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[Googlez_kun]

Well,referring to the situation in Africa,it's partially the fault of the international market.The industrialized countries trade a lot with countries from Africa,as they have gold and stuff.You'd think they should become rich with those tons of raw material,but that's where the problem lies hidden.They have only raw material and can't provide other countries with highly technological products or anything,which is were the big money comes from(just look at Japan).Furthermore,the only thing those countries have to offer are those very natural recourses,some of those having only one major material.This makes them heavily dependant on the prices from the international market.Countries with gold are currently profiting enormously,but they could crash anytime.

This is closely connected to poverty.The higher-ups prefer buying cheap products from overseas to buying it from inside their own country,which results in farmers becoming poor and the agricultural sector suffering.Which in itself is not bad, as a dominating primary sector signifies a rather underdeveloped country,but they have a small and improper secondary and tertiary sector,so they have nothing to resort to.

Hope my clumsy approach is understandable.

[BBB Banana]

Well that is a point. They sure need to industrialize themselves but first they need to produce more comodities so they can build their growth from there. As you said most of them only have one type or a few types of raw material and even then those come from pure extrativism rather than agriculture. Before they can industrialize themselves I guess they need to have at least food for themselves.

But that is kinda hard as governors are too corupt and taxes are way too high. Also they lack any kind of specialized workers that would take for a country to evolve and their education is barely existant (as that is the aim of governors) and that keeps the wealth in the hands of the "upper dogs" and ensure that the poors will stay poor.

Let's take Angola as examples. They lack specialized workers and need to import them, that means all the money invested goes to the exterior rather than staying in the country circulating. Specially when big foreign companies are the main responsibles for any progress they experience over there.

The International market's influence is also vey important as you stated. As their currencies are very weak and the poor ones can't sustain themselves.

[blai]

Guys, guys...
The poverty and international economical problems are far too complex for us to map out in this thread. There are factors going back to the medieval and even further back.

* It all start with where we are located - our natural resources, the geographical area, who's our neighbours etc.
* Then it's about our relation to development - what kind of development is the most important? Economical, technological, inter-social, democratic etc.
Point above takes things such as culture, religion and social norms (all three very closely interconnected)
*After that it's about luck - who will find x, who will do y. Major discoveries were all luck although I'm sure there's an exception to prove the rule.
* Now we're in the time of slavery and early exploitation - instead of teaching we're forcing, instead of trading we're looting and instead of helping we're killing
* How we built, governed, and left our colonies - lack of education, left without proper government etc
* How we united Europe against the rest of the world - trade & warfare

etc.

All of these are much more important and lay as a fundamental basis upon which the liberal thoughts brought by Thatcher and Reagan were enforced through regulations and international united "aid" to less fortunate countries - and before that with the development decade & world wars even prior to that.

What we see today is exploitation, enforcement of free trade, western world crumbling under the rising giant in the east - running scared and trying to find any mean possible to strengthen their economies to tackle it - even, or especially if it means a zero sum gain. (ones gain, others pain).
There are raw material - finished product trade where the rw comes from under-developed countries and fp comes from developed which lead to no education in making of the product in under-developed countries etc.
Western world only cares about trade empires and enforces countries without a stable state, currency, employment rate etc to open up their trade which'll lead to deficits.
Motherfucking IMF & World Bank pissing on states like it's their birthday and their name is Charlie.
We also see a world where the environment is as important as ever, where our global population is way beyond control and where we're most likely going to reach our doom in <100-150 years.

I can go on and on about the current state and give you concrete examples if you'd like.

As a peace and development student with major in economics, I don't really see the point at all. World's beyond saving regardless of what we do. We've been doomed starting hundreds of years ago - unless we remove the population of a continent, or two, and re-arrange global-regional-national-local governance and completely erase religion.



Yeah, like that's supposed to happen. :/

[BBB Banana]

You reminded me something very important in this next year. The Kyoto Protocol is about to end and some countrie like japan itself are showing intentions of leaving it. Europe is open to negotiations. And well USA and China are what we all know when it comes to enviroment.

Do you guys believe there's a possibility of a renew of the protocol maybe including more countries. Honestly I'd like for at least the US to restrain their levels of polution but that seems unlikely unless china does so too, and if any of these countries refuse to do so Japan will most likely leave it too and consequently Europe.

The world would be doomed with all these countries without any restrainments in their polutions level. I honestly hope the protocol can be extended or a new and better protocol can be created.

[blai]

The protocol will not, and can not be extended. I'm not trying to be all negative doomsday person but I'm only being realistic.

Certain countries want certain things, making all countries agree on concrete actions and goals is impossible. The western world has a ridiculously high say in things compared to the rest of the world when it comes to these type of political areas and we will not agree on doing things that means we have to change our lifestyle.

And to do some use we have to change our lifestyle.

Good luck with that.

=/

[BBB Banana]

We really can't continue to be selfish for much longer time gets shorter with each second. I know cientists kinda exagerate when talking about global warming and stuff but it is a real problem not some made up lie. And with countries as India whose population grows at a large rate the human resources need to be carefully distribucted so that noting gets wasted.

[Zeltrax]

I'm still hazy reading all this but Can I join in?
This is the first time I've heard of "Kyoto Protocol". I better hope they don't abandon it.
Pollution can lead to serious problems.

* It all start with where we are located - our natural resources, the geographical area, who's our neighbours etc.
* Then it's about our relation to development - what kind of development is the most important? Economical, technological, inter-social, democratic etc.
Point above takes things such as culture, religion and social norms (all three very closely interconnected)
*After that it's about luck - who will find x, who will do y. Major discoveries were all luck although I'm sure there's an exception to prove the rule.
* Now we're in the time of slavery and early exploitation - instead of teaching we're forcing, instead of trading we're looting and instead of helping we're killing
* How we built, governed, and left our colonies - lack of education, left without proper government etc
* How we united Europe against the rest of the world - trade & warfare

ITA..and it pretty much sums it up. It has been determined since a long time ago which country will be poor or will become rich.
In order to advance, India and africa have to start increasing in the tertiary and secondary industries but that is impossible because of the points above.
But most importantly, its the population.
like blai said, the population of the country affects alot of things. Trade is also one of the reasons, for raw materials countries are getting exploited by rich countries to get even richer. Sad to say that this won't change unless technology and education comes into play.

I honestly doubt that china's government really cares about every single person, no offence. There is no need for china to distributed human resources carefully because there are way too many people. Uneducated ones mostly.
Which is why I think to change things, education and technology are the most important factors.

[BBB Banana]

We can say the problems of the world are based on energy. Nuclear energy would be perfect if only it didn't left any residues. Not sure if you guys know but there is an even stonger kind of energy, even stronger than the hydrogen bomb.
And this one doesn't leave any "trash" it is called antimatter,when antimatter colides with matter they both creat raw energy (I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain the whole process so go to wiki ) but it is way too expensive for now 1 gram of antyhydrogen costs about 63 trillion US$ (in the US numbering system) it is way to expensive and ineficient in the producing method. It could suply whole towns while not generating any residues if only we could perfect it.

While nuclear fission produces 8 x 10^13 J/Kg and Nuclear fusion produces 6,4 x 10^14 this antimatter produces 1,8 x 10^17 J/Kg


While this might sound too sci-fi if you never heard about it just think about it the Nuclear energy also sounded like a dream a few years ago so who knows where we might get.

And yeah while these could be the clean energy the world needs it would most likely be in the hands of the rich countries, which would put them miles away of the poor countries, and could also be used in bombs and weapons.

When we can produce this kind of energy in large scale it will be the 4th Industrial revolution.

---------- Post added at 02:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 AM ----------

Just so you guys know this energy from 1 Kg of antimatter is that of all the oil the USA use during one year.

[alphabeta]

Say something about poverty on your view alpha
You too downs...

Guys...

I haven't forgotten about it. I'm just a little busy right now. But, I'll answer either way.

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 PM ----------

O.K. I just caught up with the posts. Expect my answer anytime soon.

---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Forget about "anytime soon". I'll answer, but not right now.

[phio_chan]

I am seriously thinking of a way to distract this discussions and turn those wall of texts into wall of smileys.

[BBB Banana]

I can posta a wall of smileys for you phio chan

[kdowns]

I'll join in the next subject. =/

[alphabeta]

I'll join in the next subject. =/

Well, yeah, I kinda imagined to discuss philosophy. Not politics and economy. And definetely not physics. =/

[blai]

Well, yeah, I kinda imagined to discuss philosophy. Not politics and economy. And definetely not physics. =/

You wanted to discuss a subject where you know you can't be wrong? ;p

[phio_chan]

I can posta a wall of smileys for you phio chan

Awww~ But... isn't that kind of spammy?

I'll join in the next subject. =/

I agree. Perhaps a bit biology? XDD