One Piece 650 Discussion

[Zeltrax]

About Moria vs Kaidou, that was years ago.
I bet Kaidou would one-shot moria now if he can..and really, Moria is a wuss.

I totally agree with Blackhair on BB. I don't think that guy is smart, that guy is just a greedy and power-crazy opportunist.
He's more towards "stupid", nobody smart and logical will raid Impel Down with what, 4 members? I understand that during
that time it was the war, so maybe there will be a lack of manpower to deal with BB but that still doesn't change the fact that
him going in there like that was closer to suicide than success. Anyone calling him smart should rethink that stance.

On the other hand, I'm looking towards at Kaidou for being a smart and hard to deal with opponent. Maybe someone like crocodile.

Back then we came to conclusion that the equation must be build like this.

1! Yonko (+crew+alliance) = MHQ + 7Gods (without crew)

Is that suppose to be valid? I don't think that equation makes sense.. Wb was an exception.

[kg21tmac1]

About Moria vs Kaidou, that was years ago.
I bet Kaidou would one-shot moria now if he can..and really, Moria is a wuss.

I totally agree with Blackhair on BB. I don't think that guy is smart, that guy is just a greedy and power-crazy opportunist.
He's more towards "stupid", nobody smart and logical will raid Impel Down with what, 4 members? I understand that during
that time it was the war, so maybe there will be a lack of manpower to deal with BB but that still doesn't change the fact that
him going in there like that was closer to suicide than success. Anyone calling him smart should rethink that stance.

On the other hand, I'm looking towards at Kaidou for being a smart and hard to deal with opponent. Maybe someone like crocodile.

Back then we came to conclusion that the equation must be build like this.


Is that suppose to be valid? I don't think that equation makes sense.. Wb was an exception.

It is valid and raise a good point!! but than again, did any of the underlings of the yonko's get captured by the marines??? Like how ace got captured?? I think, sounds far fetched, that shanks may be strong enough to take on MHQ!(by the way don't crucify me for saying that) he did stop the war in a way and made a statement that if anyone continued his crew will fight anyone. That, to me is a lot of guts and will power to make such a bold statement. However, the WG and the shikibukai were devastated from all the losses that occured! So i don't know if that counts as standing up and fighting against MHQ and shikibukai. Even though mihawk said i don't want to fight shanks, my only agreement was to fight WB. But, again that is a very good equation/question.

The other question is, if there nakama got captured, will they go as far as WB did to retrieve their nakama?? We all know Luffy will and proved it!

[mattiaildivino]

Moria did not 'keep up' with Kaido, Kaido defeated Moria and killed his entire crew, Shanks and Mihawk used to duel as equals, surely you can see the difference there? If you're still confused, I will provide you with an example from the manga:
Whitebeard and Roger used to fight each other evenly, so you can safely say that Whitebeard 'kept up' with Roger. However, Roger killed Squardo's entire crew, you don't think that Squardo 'kept up' with Roger do you?

Vista and Crocodile were able to stop Mihawk from killing Luffy because Vista is a top-notch swordsman and because Crocodile has a hook hand to block Mihawk's sword with. I know my reason for Crocodile is kind of silly, but we never saw the rest of their fight so I don't know how you can say it was easy for Croc. In both of those instances, I didn't feel like Mihawk was stopped easily, in fact he seemed to have the upper hand most the time with Vista.

I understand and I agree with some aspects of yours,but you are wrong in others:
1)after moria's defeat,some sailors who lost their shadow stated that moria used to keep up with kaido.and moria had already said that the reason of his defeat was his crew,that is far away from the comparison between roger and squardo.
2)Crocodile himself stated he could stomp mihawk as a bug,but actually crocodile is too arrogant,he thought he could kill everyone.I admit this,but your explanation lacks coherence.
3)Mihawk had the upper hand??? and where? we saw just an exchange of fire,where vista was smiling.neither of them injured each other.

[mattiaildivino]

jinbe's duties may be connected to the reverie of this year,perhaps the position he was talking about is the one to protect the king during the travel to the reverie.

[Hamlet]

let's try not to interfere with meaningless posts about strength ranking,anyway the fact that mihawk fought shanks means nothing,moria kept up with kaido,if you go to this way.and I'm wondering why mihawk was stopped so easily by Vista and by crocodile,who adfirmed he could stomp him. I guess that Kuma now has got both his powers and kizaru's beams,but this will be seen in the next volumes.

Sure, but don't forget that it was you who ranked them by strength using the superlative for Kuma.
As for the rest, Tonix was very clear.

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

I understand and I agree with some aspects of yours,but you are wrong in others:
1)after moria's defeat,some sailors who lost their shadow stated that moria used to keep up with kaido.and moria had already said that the reason of his defeat was his crew,that is far away from the comparison between roger and squardo.
2)Crocodile himself stated he could stomp mihawk as a bug,but actually crocodile is too arrogant,he thought he could kill everyone.I admit this,but your explanation lacks coherence.
3)Mihawk had the upper hand??? and where? we saw just an exchange of fire,where vista was smiling.neither of them injured each other.

Used to keep up with Kaido? It could be either a wrong translation or a wrong statement. When Moriah was defeated by Luffy, he said,"go see for yourself what a real nightmare is in the new world!" Correct me if I'm wrong, but he surely was speaking about Kaido.

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------

That bolded statement about the public making him pirate king will ultimately trigger the ultimate/epic war for pirate king between luffy and BB!

That'd be great For the moment that's probably his plan, but we'll see what Oda is reserving for us in the future

[acurabot]

Seeing as BB himself cannot materialize like other logia DF users, luffy and buggy will be the perfect combination of DFs to collect. That way, BB cannot be shot or cut and thus having the advantage of what all (except BB at this stage) logia DF users have.

[mattiaildivino]

@Akatsukichro
even the pirates of the new world allied with WB said the new world was like hell,and everyone knows it. surely they aren't referring to kaido,but to the simple fact that everything concerning that sea is dangerous. we saw the supernovas in trouble with the weather and with the geography as well. anyway,as doflamingo said,moria "has become" very weak,it means he was much stronger at one time. and kaido was probably a bit weaker,in their fight moria was a bit equal,but of course he lost. I wonder whether they fought more than once,as rivals,or moria just was defeated by kaido in their first meeting.

[Black Lagoon]

Guys Let Move this discussion to the Mega Convo Thread
@mattiaildivino : You were the one who said let's try not to interfere with "meaningless" posts about strength ranking. well actually it isn't Meaningless it's OFF-TOPIC ... and you still talk about it.
To Talk about their Strength there's The-Power-of-the-Shichibukai thread.

[mattiaildivino]

XD but I was referring to the details about speeches concerning moria and kaido and otehr fights we might see in future,I made just a post with the ranking

about the chapter,why did oda choose 2 name of roman gods and one of a greek god for the ancestral weapons? he should have used Neptune for the weapon,and Poseidon for the fishman King

[Hamlet]

@Akatsukichro
even the pirates of the new world allied with WB said the new world was like hell,and everyone knows it. surely they aren't referring to kaido,but to the simple fact that everything concerning that sea is dangerous. we saw the supernovas in trouble with the weather and with the geography as well. anyway,as doflamingo said,moria "has become" very weak,it means he was much stronger at one time. and kaido was probably a bit weaker,in their fight moria was a bit equal,but of course he lost. I wonder whether they fought more than once,as rivals,or moria just was defeated by kaido in their first meeting.

Okay, but I think you're underestimating very much the strength of a younko. This is how weak Moriah is. He couldn't even keep up with Jimbei, yet you said he kept up with Kaido. Unbelievable! We lack information about their battle, but if you have any, please share with us.

[mattiaildivino]

Okay, but I think you're underestimating very much the strength of a younko. This is how weak Moriah is. He couldn't even keep up with Jimbei, yet you said he kept up with Kaido. Unbelievable! We lack information about their battle, but if you have any, please share with us.

I've already said that: moria is NOW too weak to be a shichibukai,it means he was much stronger at one time! I guess the fact he disappeared is the strongest technique of his devil fruit,which not even he knew(like brook and the fact he can travel to the other world). Moria will come back as strong as he was at his best(that is when he fought kaido) and we will see it in the new world,but not very soon IMHO

[Hamlet]

I've already said that: moria is NOW too weak to be a shichibukai,it means he was much stronger at one time! I guess the fact he disappeared is the strongest technique of his devil fruit,which not even he knew(like brook and the fact he can travel to the other world). Moria will come back as strong as he was at his best(that is when he fought kaido) and we will see it in the new world,but not very soon IMHO

The technique which you are talking about is the one he used when his neck was about to get broken by Robin in chapter 477. It's not totally new, he is just switching places with his own shadow.
I don't Moriah became weak, rather he stopped improving, probably cuz he's aging lol. If he stopped improving, others will perceive him as getting weaker and weaker while they're the one who improved their strength

[matzik1212]

No matter how strong Moria might have become i think he will never pose a threat to Luffy or to someone as Kaido ....i mean even if we don't know much about him i'm positive he's on a whole different than Moria , he's a Yankou for god's sake so no matter what i think Moria represents now only a fragment of the past and he should stay like that

The one i would totally like to see again in the NW is Perona .She gained me as a fan i guess 'cause she helped Zoro and i like the relationship they developed durin those 2y they were so cute back then on SA lol

[Hamlet]

The one i would totally like to see again in the NW is Perona .She gained me as a fan i guess 'cause she helped Zoro and i like the relationship they developed durin those 2y they were so cute back then on SA lol

Cute? It look to me as the blind guy with its guide dog I guess funny would be very appropriate On the other hand, Id like to see Ghin(Krieg's right hand man) along with the rest of the crew

[TheBlackLotus]

Though about BB I am bit confused. How can he be considered a Yonkou if he has just handful men (I assume he didn't get a larger crew). Its true he knew WB seas and thus had a advatages, but I can't imagine Marco giving up like that. I need more revelation!

Yonkou title has nothing to do with crew size. So far from what we've seen of shanks crew is probably not large like white beards. We know nothing about Kaidou or Big Mam yet. Crew size also doesn't always mean power. If i remember right Don Krieg entered the grand line with a huge ship and was taken out completely by only mihawk. On the same side Luffy's crew is only 8 people + himself so far and still a threat to WG. The captain may be a huge portion of that, but i think its a disservice to the crew to say any of them are weak in general, even Chopper and his whole 50 beli bounty is definitely stronger than the average pirates, and i think a realistic bounty for him would be closer to usopp/nami/brooke in the 20-40 million range, maybe higher, but the WG considers him a pet rather than a pirate. (poor chopper!)

7 dwarfs, 7 samurai, 7 swordsmen from teh mist and 7 pirates..... it just has a good ring to it i guess... I dont think there is a debate over the number of warlords, its more about who are the new 3, and if kuma is still a shichibukai. He should be, but he is nothing more than a pacifista with a DF ability.

The number 7 has been used in literature and mythology forever. I have not been writing or studying the topic in years, but i think i recall the numbers 3, 4, 7, 12, and 13 being some of the most common numbers used in stories, legends, and myths. At least one is bound to turn up, either a famous author will have used them in a novel, or for serials or "epic" length literature they may appear more often. They are definitely numbers that appear regularly in fantasy genres. I don't recall why or how this came to be but in some mythology you'll find these numbers everywhere, and for this anime alone:

3 ancient weapons
4 emperors
7 warlords

I don't recall seeing 12 too often, so maybe in eastern religion this number is not as prominent/relevant as it is in greek/roman myth and the old and new testament in judeo-christian faiths, where along with 3 and 7 it is the most common, so perhaps in those cultures numbers like 3, 4 and 7 are more common.

In relation to the subject at hand, this is probably the inspiration to such numbers, and oda didn't just feel like making 7. There are plenty of authors who develop organizations and societies with a specific number in mind, but it usually depends on the groups purpose. Often times 3 and 4 are small groups of great power who are like gods/lords/emperors, whereas 7, 12, and 13 are often larger groups that have their own legend. Shichibukai falls perfectly about that as the members consist of ex-pirates who by the common people and rookie pirates are legends told around the campfire like ghost stories. You can tell by how the shichibukai are discussed in East Blue how their reputation would make them seem like epic or legendary men, and with what little we know about the yonkou, the fact there's only 4 and they reign as emperors and kings (and queen, in the case of BM) leads one to thing they're legendary figures with godly strength, and crews of equal power and fame under the same banner. Every interaction we've had involving their names predicts this, read the reactions to the name whitebeard prior to the whole "yonkou" explanation. Every pirate, marine, and WG member that seemed to know his name feared him. You could even argue in the OP world white beards strength fits the reputation, and was probably even more godlike in his prime when he fought Roger.

I have some off topic predictions of where we might go from here in the story as well (post-FI and the start of NW), so if i have time i'll post these later and see if anyone is getting a similar vibe.