Beelzebub Wild Speculation/Mysteries Thread

[Teeba]

But a demon with more contractors would be interesting. There are two possible outcomes in the current arc, not mutually exclusive: the demon becomes three times as strong, and the contractors get a third of the demon's power each. That would mean Oga would defeat Nasu pretty easily, but have trouble when facing the three first-years together (thus explaining the New Year Dream).

However, if that were true, wouldn't Hilda prefer to find several strong contractor for Beel instead of relying on Oga solely?

i don´t think Hilda can´t overstand 3 Human idiots. Ogas stupid actions actions are already enough for Hilda. Three of them, interisting to see Hilda on rampage.

And i agree with you in the other Points. What will be the Sideeffects if a Human has more then one Contract. We saw on Furichi what it can bring to only summon only one Demon. I think by three you die or loose controll of your Body and yourself.

I don't see it conflicting with Hilda's objective at all. I guess I got influenced by Magi --a really awesome shonen manga-- where you can form contracts with magical djinns, but you can also let other people close to you channel a little bit of that power as well. It would be like a subcontractor or something. But at the same time it probably wouldn't work for Beel since he is a baby. It could be quite taxing for him to connect with another contractor outside of Oga.

Oh well, either way I'm interested in how the Killer Six got their powers, and I hope the explanation makes sense.

[Pirulito]

So... with the tissue issue and reading chapter 48, specifically this part http://www.mangareader.net/222-47027...hapter-48.html , I thought it would be much more interesting instead of humans making contract with demons every time, the existence of some treasures that give powers to humans, making them able to fight demons.

If Ishiyama Upstarts is related to Athrun, maybe they have some of these treasures?

[Black Hawk]

Lets start speculation, with this Chapter there are so much possible Ways it could run. First Natsu is a contractor from a Demon that belongs to the Solomon Company. When i think the first introducing of this Company, was in the Mother of Beel arc. And the Company handle with a Picture that should belong in the Demon World not in the Human World, open the Door for. That the Solomon Company is ruled by Demons, who dealing with human, to destroy the world and Power.

Fuji is the Contractor of Arthrun, also the unknown Family arthrun is working for are not so familiar with the King of the Flies. That could bring us later two a second visit in the Demon World. I don´t think if the King of Hell are knowing there are hunting for Baby Beel, he will do something.

[Akia999]

When I was reading the past chapter discussion (the San Marx arc),I notice nobody brought up the issue whether En and Beel have the same mother.It's completely irrelevant,but I always notice things like this.
Hilda only state that Mrs Iris is Beel mother,not En.It got me wondering since Hilda only refer to Iris as Mrs,not some fancy title like the queen or something.She may not be the queen of the demon world at all,just the second wife.And that En's mother is the queen,the first wife.Thus making both En and Beel half brother.I could be entirely wrong and that both En and Beel are full brothers.But with the info that we have so far,I came to that conclusion.
So,does anyone think that both En and Beel share the same mom?
And what are the chances of having another demon prince/princess who ain't a crybaby?

[Teeba]

It hasn't been stated explicitly, but Hilda's lecture to Beel when Futaba made him her lackey suggests they have different mothers.

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

So... with the tissue issue and reading chapter 48, specifically this part http://www.mangareader.net/222-47027...hapter-48.html , I thought it would be much more interesting instead of humans making contract with demons every time, the existence of some treasures that give powers to humans, making them able to fight demons.

If Ishiyama Upstarts is related to Athrun, maybe they have some of these treasures?

Why didn't I ever comment on this?

Its a great idea. I really hope Tamura expands more on the different ways you can gain powers through demon contracts. Like the tissues -- those are awfully convenient for humans to use, I can't imagine that being the only one of its kind around.

[Akia999]

It hasn't been stated explicitly, but Hilda's lecture to Beel when Futaba made him her lackey suggests they have different mothers.

I forget about that.I would find it hard to believe if the demon king only had one wife anyway...
Also,En had the entire pillar squad under his command when he came to "destroy humanity" whereas baby beel only had Oga(though he is more than enough),Alaindelon and Hilda when he came to "destroy humanity". It does suggest that there is a disparity of power between them.En may have more connection compare to beel if his mother is of higher ranking.

[kendama]

I'm not sure about this. Certainly, Mrs Iris is not referred to as the Queen, so she may be a lesser royal wife. Then again, Beel has inherited his father's name, not En, which may mean that she is the favourite wife (making him the Crown Prince?). (Then again, the Demon King is so random that he refers to Beel as "the kid I just had", so it's really impossible to draw a conclusion.)

But the fact that En has a full elite Squad may have to do with age. I'm still longing for the day when Furuichi will answer the doorbell only to find a legion of demons saying they were sent by the King to be Beel's Squad and are reporting for duty to their presumed General.

[Pirulito]

FREAKING AWESOME SCENE, MAN!

[Black Hawk]

I'm not sure about this. Certainly, Mrs Iris is not referred to as the Queen, so she may be a lesser royal wife. Then again, Beel has inherited his father's name, not En, which may mean that she is the favourite wife (making him the Crown Prince?). (Then again, the Demon King is so random that he refers to Beel as "the kid I just had", so it's really impossible to draw a conclusion.)

But the fact that En has a full elite Squad may have to do with age. I'm still longing for the day when Furuichi will answer the doorbell only to find a legion of demons saying they were sent by the King to be Beel's Squad and are reporting for duty to their presumed General.

Genius Scene, i was reading it and can´t stop laughing. I really want to see a 1 page Story for it. His Hand in front of his Face, make is cool in easy look. And thinking with his two mind. I make it or what the Hell do all the demons here. With a screaming Face in the Bubble.

[Akia999]

I'm not sure about this. Certainly, Mrs Iris is not referred to as the Queen, so she may be a lesser royal wife. Then again, Beel has inherited his father's name, not En, which may mean that she is the favourite wife (making him the Crown Prince?). (Then again, the Demon King is so random that he refers to Beel as "the kid I just had", so it's really impossible to draw a conclusion.)

I don't really understand much about monarchy.But from what I sorta know is that the crown prince is usually the queen's child,not necessary the child of the favourite wife of the king(mostly in china and in korea in the olden day).But then again,there are exception.I do agree that the demon king is random so it is bit hard to determine whether Mrs Iris really is the queen or the favorite wife and why does beel inherit his name.At this stage,it is pretty much speculation on my part.(though I do think she is the favourite wife)

But the fact that En has a full elite Squad may have to do with age. I'm still longing for the day when Furuichi will answer the doorbell only to find a legion of demons saying they were sent by the King to be Beel's Squad and are reporting for duty to their presumed General.

That's true.However,considering how random the demon king is for sending a baby to destroy humanity,he could have at least given Beel an army(which hilda can lead) to destroy humanity.En is also pretty young to have an elite squad under him.All of them are so loyal to him despite him being a clueless,spoiled brat.
As for the second part,it would be pretty epic if that were to happen.

[FanOfAniManga]

Hey guys. Just a reminder, for anyone still calling the new gang leader of delinquents the "Six Upstarts", I made a post explaining why we should be calling them the "Killer Six Elements" instead. I didn't post it here at first because I wasn't aware of this thread. You can read it below:

Hey guys. Well, curiosity has struck me again. And this time, it's in the title of this chapter, which also happens to be the name of this new gang of delinquents.

The original Japanese title of the chapter is 殺六縁起, which seems like it should translate to Killer Six Omens. Neither Ishiyama nor upstarts are referred to in the title.

After playing around Google and Wikipedia, I soon discovered that it's actually a derivative of the expression 六大縁起. It's just like how the title of chapter 12 is a play on the name of a comedy act. At first, I thought Six Great Omens would be an ideal translation. But after playing around some more, I found it to be a little deeper than that. Now, I'm not very knowledgeable on how religion works, but I'll do my best to explain where the expression comes from.

六大縁起, pronounced Rokudai engi, according to Japanese Wikipedia and a few more websites, refers to the "Six Great Elements" from Shingon Buddhism. Typically in Japanese Buddhism, there are five elements: Earth, water, fire, air and void. The sixth element is mind, and these elements combined are taught under the deity (Mahā)Vairocana.

With all of that said, I feel it's most appropriate to translate the title and the gang name as the Killer Six Elements on the Wiki.

At the moment I discovered the origin of the chapter's title, I recall that time many months ago when I first discovered a pattern in the names of the 24 Pillar (Generals). It's subtle references like these in which I really want to emphasize the importance of looking for deeper meanings in the manga, especially with a mangaka who seems to know more about the obscure aspects of religion than the average reader.

---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

P.S.
I was struggling to find the furigana for the title of the chapter and have just found them outside the title page. Having confirmed the pronunciation of the kanji, I now know why the first two are arranged the way they are.

殺六縁起 is pronounced Satsuriku engi. Guess what's also pronounced "satsuriki"? The word massacre, 殺戮.

So there you have it. Another hidden religious reference and another pun lost in translation. Such is the magic of curiosity.

Now, here's another mind blow that just occurred to me, again having to do with the Killer Six Elements. Actually, it's just a speculation, as kendama has pointed out.

In Christian ethics, there's a list of Seven deadly sins: lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and pride.

Now, in 1589, a guy named Peter Binsfield paired each of these sins with a demon and called them the Seven Princes of Hell in order as follows:

1. pride: Lucifer
2. greed: Mammon
3. lust: Asmodeus
4. envy: Leviathan
5. gluttony: Beelzebub
6. wrath: Satan
7. sloth: Belphegor

Note the presence of Beelzebub, and six others on the list. I think it's about darn time we see them soon.

I should've known this a long time ago because I was already aware Beelzebub was part of that list. I just didn't think about how 7-1=6.

Unfortunately, if Tamura doesn't stretch this long enough, it also might mean that the manga will end soon, probably not within the next few months, but maybe within a year or two; I can't think of anymore (or any more appropriate) antagonists Oga could possibly fight. Considering how much better the anime could've been made, I feel like it's a very big shame. Unless Tamura starts using the demons from other classifications, such as (Kuroshitsuji fans should know this guy) Sebastian Michaelis' classification, Francis Barrett's classification, or even a classification by month from the 16th century... or if either a remake or at least a series of OVAs are coming soon. Who knows...

[kendama]

@FanofAniManga:

Now, I would have had to bite my tongue if I had dismissed your theories before: after all, you are the one who uncovered the demonic alphabet and now the connection with the Six Killer Elements.

But now I will hedge my bets and remain in waiting to see whether this last one will be born out.

Tamura-sensei may choose some elements of Western Demonology to add interesting regularity to the story, but he does so quite randomly. What I mean by that is that he chooses fancy names that fall into a pattern without any worry as to how to be consistent about the original holders of these names. That's why, for example the Pillar Heads have sometimes connections to the original mythical serpents (like Basilisk's paralysing gaze or Naga's riding of a snake-shaped aura), but more often no such connection is evident. For example, Beel's name seems to have been chosen solely because it can be used to make a pun on akanbou and even the connection to flies seems to be used only sparingly and for laughs, at least for now. And of course, Beel does not show signs of gluttony.

So, while it is possible that the Six Killer Elements correspond to the remaining six Capital Sin-related demons, I find it unlikely. My main reason is that they seem to be divided in two tiers: those like Ebian and Akahoshi, who showed surprise and puzzlement at Nasubi's interest in Beel; and those like Nasubi himself who are contractors. In my view, the Three Beasts are contracted, whereas the Three Kings are just very strong newcomers who aren't aware of demons.

Even the issue of whether there is more than one kingdom in the demon world is unclarified.

Finally, there are so many loose ends in this story - I've made a recap in another thread here - that adding another layer of complexity would quite clutter the story. We have Athrun, the person standing atop the rubble on chapter 38, Solomon Company, Mrs Iris, Kunieda's parents, etc. etc. While it is possible to tie everything by relating it to the remaining capital sins, it sounds that this would require improbable connections and leaps of reasoning, especially if the Six Killer Elements are involved as well. It doesn't really sound like Tamura-sensei's style. But hey, what do I know?

[Pirulito]

What is Solomon Company? Can't remember that.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 PM ----------

Forget my question. I googled it.

[FanOfAniManga]

@FanofAniManga:

Now, I would have had to bite my tongue if I had dismissed your theories before: after all, you are the one who uncovered the demonic alphabet and now the connection with the Six Killer Elements.

But now I will hedge my bets and remain in waiting to see whether this last one will be born out.

Tamura-sensei may choose some elements of Western Demonology to add interesting regularity to the story, but he does so quite randomly. What I mean by that is that he chooses fancy names that fall into a pattern without any worry as to how to be consistent about the original holders of these names. That's why, for example the Pillar Heads have sometimes connections to the original mythical serpents (like Basilisk's paralysing gaze or Naga's riding of a snake-shaped aura), but more often no such connection is evident. For example, Beel's name seems to have been chosen solely because it can be used to make a pun on akanbou and even the connection to flies seems to be used only sparingly and for laughs, at least for now. And of course, Beel does not show signs of gluttony.

So, while it is possible that the Six Killer Elements correspond to the remaining six Capital Sin-related demons, I find it unlikely. My main reason is that they seem to be divided in two tiers: those like Ebian and Akahoshi, who showed surprise and puzzlement at Nasubi's interest in Beel; and those like Nasubi himself who are contractors. In my view, the Three Beasts are contracted, whereas the Three Kings are just very strong newcomers who aren't aware of demons.

Even the issue of whether there is more than one kingdom in the demon world is unclarified.

Finally, there are so many loose ends in this story - I've made a recap in another thread here - that adding another layer of complexity would quite clutter the story. We have Athrun, the person standing atop the rubble on chapter 38, Solomon Company, Mrs Iris, Kunieda's parents, etc. etc. While it is possible to tie everything by relating it to the remaining capital sins, it sounds that this would require improbable connections and leaps of reasoning, especially if the Six Killer Elements are involved as well. It doesn't really sound like Tamura-sensei's style. But hey, what do I know?

I've been a little slow sorting out the characters and the apparent hierarchy of the six, so I forgot there were two tiers. So I guess it really is just a speculation at best and not a theory, centred around the number 6. Before you mentioned it, it just seemed to match up so well, but then I found that there's also an order to the list of demons. So unless Beelzebub is fifth in something, that probably won't matter anymore than any other random thing in the manga.

By the way, where was it mentioned that the nicknames of these six actually come from the hatsuyume, with the order of objects in the superstitious phrase the same? I just checked that Nene was repeating the exact expression in chapter 190, which got lost in translation, but the order is the same, in decreasing order of strength. I think it was in a footnote in a chapter somewhere, but I don't remember where.

I'm not sure if any of the loose ends will become directly associated with the elements. But given Tamura's history of resolving almost none of them so far really makes me wonder: When the manga ends, will Tamura have resolved, or just ignored them altogether? As someone always looking for the next big thing in Jump, I find it similar to asking the question: Will a manga become long enough to resolve, or will it be cancelled too soon? A resolved manga has its loose ends tied up and indicates a manga ended naturally, while a cancelled manga has its loose ends poorly accounted for, if at all, indicating a forced ending.

I have no idea how long this manga is going to last because I can't tell how much storytelling magnitude Tamura has; this has STILL only been his first serialization. With all these loose ends all over the place, he's either planning for something extremely long, or is clumsily bringing the manga to a forced, cancelled ending. By thinking he'd associate the elements with something that actually has the greatest possible rhyme, I thought that it could possibly be the beginning of the end, and I'd assume he'd probably forget about tying up those loose ends too, like a cancelled manga. This is one of the main reasons why I hope the manga lasts a long time, along with having the anime redone/continue properly.

As a manga that's not entirely gag-based, it's probably one of the least predictable I've ever read. And when I don't fully understand whatever little patterns come out of it, I might just screw up whatever theory I thought I might have had, kind of like what I just did.

[Teeba]

I kind of agree with kendama on this one. Tamura decides his demonic names pretty randomly. I mean, Hilda, Yolda, Sachura, and Isabella don't have corresponding demons at all, just European sounding names. So these new demons could have the names of anything, from the 7 Princes of Hell, to famous historical figures, to pop culture, to anything really. Heck, considering he named the 34th Pillar Squad from the Angelic Alphabet, which is part of the Lesser Key of Solomon, who's to say he won't use the Ars Goetia? (This would be hilarious, because people have already been comparing the subcontracting to the household vessels of Magi. And Magi too, uses the Ars Goetia. )

By the way, where was it mentioned that the nicknames of these six actually come from the hatsuyume, with the order of objects in the superstitious phrase the same? I just checked that Nene was repeating the exact expression in chapter 190, which got lost in translation, but the order is the same, in decreasing order of strength. I think it was in a footnote in a chapter somewhere, but I don't remember where.

I mentioned it in a chapter discussion thread before you. The importance of Oga's dream is explicitly said in chapter 188: the first dream of the year is important, and what you dream about signifies how well the year will be for you. Its literally stated on the first page of chapter 188. Oga dreamt of the perfect combination: eggplant, a hawk, and Mt. Fuji. But when I was trying to find out more about these dreams of the first year, I discovered a blog entry about the six symbols one should dream about on New Years in Japan. Tamura was probably making a very Japanese pun by linking the name, Killer Six Elements, to six symbols that actually represent good fortune.

I have no idea how long this manga is going to last; with all these loose ends all over the place, Tamura is either planning for something extremely long, or is clumsily bringing the manga to a forced, cancelled ending. By thinking he'd associate the elements with something that actually has rhyme, I thought that it could possibly be the beginning of the end, and I'd assume he'd probably forget about tying up those loose ends too, like a cancelled manga. This is the main reason why I hope the manga lasts a long time, next to having the anime redone/continue properly.

As a manga that's not entirely gag-based, it's probably one of the least predictable I've ever read. And when I don't fully understand whatever little patterns come out of it, I might just screw up whatever theory I thought I might have had, kind of like what I just did.

Up until the Tissues Arc, I would agree with you, that Tamura could end the manga however he liked without resolving any of the mysteries previous alluded to. But after the Tissues Arc I find it hard to believe he'd leave something as blatant as Athrun saying he'll meet Oga again, or Ikaruga asking Aoi about her parents hanging. I know it doesn't feel like it, but Beelzebub is still a really compact manga. I'd expect a more longer running series to forget small mysteries like that. Of course the gag part of the manga makes it hard to predict what's going to happen, but I have faith somehow. Regardless how long Beelzebub runs for, I think Tamura already has the answer to these mysteries, he's just waiting on when to reveal them.

If there's one thing I have no faith in, is any kind of decent handling of romance between Hilda, Oga, and Aoi. I'm so glad its been dropped for the time being.