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Translations: Gintama 510 (2)
The training was merely to survive in the new world which none of them would have for a long time. I don't won't to say that he is a weak or something but I'd say he is not even close to defeat the likes of Akainu he will just not die almost instantly and might very well be able to put up a fight. Especially plot wise it wouldn't make that much sense if he is able to fight one of the top dogs of the marines. Hell Akainu might be even the strongest person of the marines.
I see the training just as a tool to close the gap he experienced in the war not to surpass everybody. The last progress to be strong enough to beat them will be gained through his journey.
Characters who are still stronger than Luffy: the admirals, the emperors, the emperors's lieutenants, garp, mihawk, rayleigh, marco, kong, sengoku, dragon.
I also do not think that the other supernovas are on par with Luffy, even before the timeskip Luffy was already stronger than all of them and the only reason why Kidd
had a slightly higher bounty than him was because he was hurting civilians, and while they were splitting their time between training and exploring the new world
luffy was focusing all of his attention on training so the obvious conclusion is that luffy is stronger than the supernovas by quite a margin, not that they are weak.
The same thing is valid for Smoker, he was only beating Luffy because the later was unable to land a hit on his logia body, but now not only did he gain the ability
to hit logia users he also improved his devil fruits powers and gained haki of observation, luffy is definitely stronger than Smoker.
Lucci and Luffy were almost on par before the timeskip but now it's clear that Luffy is much stronger than him, you can't except every person that luffy has fought
in the past to have the same growth rate as he does otherwise everyone will become admiral-level by the end of the serie
Ivankov is also not stronger than luffy, we've seen his fight with Magellan and he didn't really have more luck than luffy did, they were probably on the same level back then, now luffy is stronger.
Also the emperors are do not hold that title just because they have large territories and soldiers, it's also because they are exceedinly powerful, look at Shanks, Whitebeard, Blackbeard
you can't expect the soldiers, especially pirates to follow someone who is weaker than the are, and we all know that in OP massive numbers of fighters isn't what determines
the outcome of a battle, it's the strength of the top fighters, the strawhats vs the fishermen is a good example of how 10 people defeated an entire army and it wasn't that hard for them to do so,
and the argument that in the NW the pirates are stronger than the ones in the first part of the grand line isn't valid, we've all seen these pirates fight in the war of the best, besides their captains who were
probably each on par with a vice admiral(remember that before the timeskip luffy could defeat multiple vice admirals by himself) they weren't that strong, and i know that the pirates that were present
were only a few crews of all the ones in the NW but it was explicitly said that they were veterans of the NW, they still lost consciousness to Luffy's haki even before
he gained control over it so my guess is, in the NW there is more top tiers pirates but the foot soldiers level is still not high enough to pose a threat.
Firstly, I'd have to disagree with you on Iva. This is a person who is very highly ranked in the RA and is someone who could fight on par with a pacifista-enhanced Kuma. The more solid proof of him not being on the same level as Luffy is that he beat Sanji without breaking a sweat, can you honestly say that Luffy can do the same?
Also, when did Luffy beat multiple vice-admirals on his own? I can't remember such a thing occuring
Last edited by abc1233; July 02, 2012 at 04:52 PM.
The 5 vice admirals of the Enies Lobbis arc weren't even able to capture Luffy that should be proof enough that he is already stronger than any vice admiral.
As for Iva Sanji is very strong but he's nowhere near Luffy strength and now after the timeskip both of are much stronger, I don't see Iva being stronger than they are.
^I don't think that is necessarily the case. The VAs at ennies lobby where there solely for the buster call. At no point they ever tried to get involved and most of them probably wouldn't have been able too. The odds of a VA actually being stronger than luffy are small IMO however I do think a few of them should be roughly even.
As for people currently stronger than luffy I would go for these guys:
- All three admirals
- Maybe a few VAs. Smoker should be close to a match to luffy and I do doubt smoker is the strongest of them considering his age.
- Marco, jozu and vista (I rate this guys at roughly the admiral level)
- Mihawk (match for shanks and the admirals IMO)
- the yonko. I guess there is the possibility that currently at least one of the yonko is actually at about luffy's level although the odds of that are slim
- A few of the commanders should be about as strong as luffy
- jinbe is equal to luffy
- Iva is a bit of a wildcard IMO however it wouldn't be strange to me if he was on the level or stronger than luffy. The guy actually kicked kuma's but a bit in a strictly non sexual way.
- Kuma should be stronger than luffy
- Hancock should be stronger than luffy IMO
- There should be several crews in the NW with captains as strong and perhaps stronger than luffy.
Since we've been talking about mainly pre-time skip characters: I think Vergo is also stronger than Luffy - unless his powers can't bring down Luffy because "he's a rubber man". :/
I think we shouldn't speculate on Vergo's strength for now until we know for sure how he brought down Law to his knees.
Smoker is in no way close to luffy's strength, we've seen how he didn't last long against Law, and when you remember that Luffy is the strongest of the eleven supernovas.
Jinbei is pretty strong but I don't think he is stronger than Luffy, currently I think luffy is as powerful as Ace was before dying and yes we saw Ace fighting Jinbei and they were a match to each other but that was years ago, Ace was still young and he became a lot stronger than that, so no Jinbei is weaker.
Kuma isn't stronger than Luffy especially after seeing how Luffy OHKO'd a pacisifta, yes Kuma must be the strongest of the pacisifta but still.
And I don't think a single vice-admiral is stronger than Luffy, and for Vergo who's current strength is unknown you need to remember that he is a pirate who infiltrated the marines so even if he's very powerful it doesn't mean the other vice admirals are near his level.
How can you say that all the VAs are weaker than Luffy? We've only got a rough idea of Smoker's strength, the others are pretty much unknown. All we know is that they all have haki and most likely have much more experience with haki than Luffy.
Sanji is obviously weaker than Luffy, but could Luffy have taken him out without breaking a sweat like Iva did? I very much doubt it.
Last edited by abc1233; July 05, 2012 at 12:54 PM.
@Abc1233 Hancock pre timeskip was able to kick the hell out of a pacifista without effort And her legs didn't even go dark to show she was using any haki although Oda might have omitted that because back then he didn't put much emphasis on using CoA as much as he did now in terms of color scheme especially when Shanks's sword didn't go dark yet it saved Coby from Akainu.
Anyways off the top of my head I say...
Some Vice Admirals
Some Vice Admirals
Marco and the rest of his commander colleagues
The reason why I said some VMs for both spots is because there has never been a mention of VMs having to be on the same level. Maybe the VMs during the Enies Lobby arc were fodder but perhaps others are more capable. Smoker lost to Law because it seems like he didn't know of the extent of Law's powers because Smoker isn't stupid. If he knew of Law's full power I'm sure he wouldn't have gotten in such a situation where Law can rip his heart out in that particular way. I'm not kissing his ass but I think until we see Smoker truly fight a big time antagonist/Luffy, we shouldn't underestimate him and give him a second chance after losing to Law like that.
Also, I'd have to disagree on Law/Kidd being Luffy's equals. They were equal/slightly below Luffy before the TS in which Luffy focused purely on getting stronger with the PK's first mate. I highly doubt Law/Kidd grew to the same extent as Luffy during the TS. If they had then there wouldn't have been any point in Luffy wasting 2 years training when he could have just gone into the NW and levelled up to the same extent.
Last edited by abc1233; July 10, 2012 at 11:47 AM.
Big Mom (Charlotte Linlin)
Rob Lucci (maybe)
Magellan (haki turns the battle right around)
all other important characters
all just my own speculation, and none of them are in order of strength
Eneru, Kong, Kaidou, is stronger than Luffy