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Thread: Who is stronger than Luffy?

  1. #91
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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    i think Kidd , Law , Kuma , Crocodile , Hancock and Jimbe r equal to luffy if not stronger.

    1+ admirals (Akainu + all other admirals) , Aokiji , Shanks , Big Mom , Kaidou , Blackbeard , Rayleigh , Mihawk , kong , gorosei (i dont think they r just for show) and dragon r stronger than LuffY

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    This estimation is a huge generalization and ignores individual match ups like Luffy vs Enel for example, it is obvious that there are exceptions but this is how i see it right now:

    Vice Admirals = Crocodile pre-TS, Jinbe(on land), Zoro, Sanji < Kidd, Law, Kuma (mindless), Luffy, Ace < Vice Captains and commanders of Yonkou (Marco, Jozu) < Doflamingo, Hancock < Mihawk = Admirals, Garp, Rayleigh =/< Yonkou

    Explanation:
    Vice Admirals´fighting style has been shown to consist of this: Rokushiki + Haki + either a weapon or a DF (Onigumo has both). Of course they belong to the strongest fighters in the OP world but it still is way inferior to the real big players. I think Sanji and Zoro are pretty much on their level now, nothing that the VAs have shown exceeds the feats both Zoro and Sanji have shown. Some people might say that this estimation overestimates the SHs (including Luffy) but looking at the opponents they are soon going to face, i think it is appropriate. Crocodile pre-TS has one of the deadliest fruits we have seen, his Logia gives him an advantage in movement and in variety of his attacks but what he lacks is Haki and advanced physical abilities. Jinbe is pretty much the opposite, being a strong physical fighter but without a deadly ability.
    Of course there are weaker and stronger characters in this level while the lines between the levels are also not absolute, especially considering that there are no real tiers in OP because of the variety of different abilities but this is just a simplification and generalization.

    Next level is a bit stronger than the one before. Law has one of the strongest abilities in OP, he almost becomes god in his room but what he definitely lacks is physical abilities, meaning strength, speed and endurance which also reveals his biggest weakness, namely melee. Smoker, though being weaker than Law overall, was able to corner Law for a certain amount of time and even almost got him. Kuma also has one of the strongest abilities in OP, is very fast and physically strong (probably) but since his transformation, he lacks two things, namely intelligence and endurance. The former should be clear, the latter is because of him being a Pacifista, either you are strong enough to break or cut the the exterior of a Pacisfista or not. Kidd is on this level solely because of his portrayal as rival of Law and Luffy. Luffy has impressive physical abilities (speed, strength and endurance), is one of the few who has all 3 types of Haki, even if its not advanced enough yet, has immense destructive power (Noah, Kraken) and since the timeskip, a deadly attack, namely Red Hawk. These points already make him very strong while still giving him room to grow.

    Next "level" is the vice captains and strongest commanders of a Yonkou. They are capable to fight Admirals for a longer time, have strong and unusual abilities, impressive physical skills and a high level of Haki. From what we have seen (could obviously change with the other commanders) is that they lack deadly abilities. Marco purely fights on a physical basis while Jozu turns into diamond and still has to punch the opponent.

    Next level is extremely close to the admirals but not completely equal, they are capable of beating the admirals under certain circumstances though. Both Hancock and Doflamingo have all 3 types of Haki, have shown impressive physical feats and most importantly, both have extremely deadly abilities that are also extremely hard to defend against. Hancock is generally underestimated and underrated, probably because she has not been portrayed and hyped as a villain and antagonist.

    Next level is the strongest one where the biggest players play. Mihawk´s estimation is pretty much only based on the symbolism, namely him being the rival of Shanks while the latter was able to clash with WB. Admirals were able to clash with WB, Rayleigh was able to clash with Kizaru, Garp is a legend and the only one who could fight WB and Roger equally in their respective prime, the Yonkou were in a stalemate.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    I think Kidd and Law are at the moment on a levl with Luffy. Crocodile? His ace was his logia ability. Luffy no longer needs water to touch croc. He developed gear 2, which greatly increased his speed. He developed haki and fought against monsters stronger than him (500 or more....) http://www.mangareader.net/103-56928...apter-597.html

    hancock is a hard one. Her ability is damn strong, but isn't working on luffy. It wasn't working on that vice admiral because he stabbed himself. I don't know what else might work against her DF. Sure, she has got the Conquerors Haki and was able to hit a logia while he was trangile (smoker), but right now i don't see her even close to luffy.

    Jimbey might be close. But it's hard to predict and as some people stated before, if person a beats person b and person b wins against person c, it's not sure if a would beat c.

    By example: Enel. I think he is one of the strongest characters introduced so far. Luffy was mostly immune against him. Yet he nearly lost. Zoro, who is the closest to Luffy (in my opinion), didn't stand a chance against him. He can use haki (at least observation) and has got an incredible strong ability. I don't think that any char so far (yeah, even the admirals and the yonkous) would have an easy job taking him down. Yet Luffy won before he even developped gear 2 and 3.
    Or think of the battle against mister 3 - he is inferior in strength, yet he managed to capture Zoro.

    so if you ask another question, let's say who would beat or could beat Luffy in my opinion at the moment: Kidd, Law, Dofla, appou (with his sound waves), CC (he beated Luffy in their first fight), the admirals, aikanu, aokiji, maybe the unknown shichibukai, Dragon, the yonkous, or some weak guy like foxy....luffy defeated stronger guys in the past - and was nearly beaten by weaker ones.

  4. #94
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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    This estimation is a huge generalization and ignores individual match ups like Luffy vs Enel for example, it is obvious that there are exceptions but this is how i see it right now:

    Vice Admirals = Crocodile pre-TS, Jinbe(on land), Zoro, Sanji < Kidd, Law, Kuma (mindless), Luffy, Ace < Vice Captains and commanders of Yonkou (Marco, Jozu) < Doflamingo, Hancock < Mihawk = Admirals, Garp, Rayleigh =/< Yonkou

    Explanation:
    Vice Admirals´fighting style has been shown to consist of this: Rokushiki + Haki + either a weapon or a DF (Onigumo has both). Of course they belong to the strongest fighters in the OP world but it still is way inferior to the real big players. I think Sanji and Zoro are pretty much on their level now, nothing that the VAs have shown exceeds the feats both Zoro and Sanji have shown. Some people might say that this estimation overestimates the SHs (including Luffy) but looking at the opponents they are soon going to face, i think it is appropriate. Crocodile pre-TS has one of the deadliest fruits we have seen, his Logia gives him an advantage in movement and in variety of his attacks but what he lacks is Haki and advanced physical abilities. Jinbe is pretty much the opposite, being a strong physical fighter but without a deadly ability.
    Of course there are weaker and stronger characters in this level while the lines between the levels are also not absolute, especially considering that there are no real tiers in OP because of the variety of different abilities but this is just a simplification and generalization.

    Next level is a bit stronger than the one before. Law has one of the strongest abilities in OP, he almost becomes god in his room but what he definitely lacks is physical abilities, meaning strength, speed and endurance which also reveals his biggest weakness, namely melee. Smoker, though being weaker than Law overall, was able to corner Law for a certain amount of time and even almost got him. Kuma also has one of the strongest abilities in OP, is very fast and physically strong (probably) but since his transformation, he lacks two things, namely intelligence and endurance. The former should be clear, the latter is because of him being a Pacifista, either you are strong enough to break or cut the the exterior of a Pacisfista or not. Kidd is on this level solely because of his portrayal as rival of Law and Luffy. Luffy has impressive physical abilities (speed, strength and endurance), is one of the few who has all 3 types of Haki, even if its not advanced enough yet, has immense destructive power (Noah, Kraken) and since the timeskip, a deadly attack, namely Red Hawk. These points already make him very strong while still giving him room to grow.

    Next "level" is the vice captains and strongest commanders of a Yonkou. They are capable to fight Admirals for a longer time, have strong and unusual abilities, impressive physical skills and a high level of Haki. From what we have seen (could obviously change with the other commanders) is that they lack deadly abilities. Marco purely fights on a physical basis while Jozu turns into diamond and still has to punch the opponent.

    Next level is extremely close to the admirals but not completely equal, they are capable of beating the admirals under certain circumstances though. Both Hancock and Doflamingo have all 3 types of Haki, have shown impressive physical feats and most importantly, both have extremely deadly abilities that are also extremely hard to defend against. Hancock is generally underestimated and underrated, probably because she has not been portrayed and hyped as a villain and antagonist.

    Next level is the strongest one where the biggest players play. Mihawk´s estimation is pretty much only based on the symbolism, namely him being the rival of Shanks while the latter was able to clash with WB. Admirals were able to clash with WB, Rayleigh was able to clash with Kizaru, Garp is a legend and the only one who could fight WB and Roger equally in their respective prime, the Yonkou were in a stalemate.
    It's curious, I will rank Zoro a level up in your classification, and Luffy almost at the level of Doflamingo if not in that level.

    Kidd's fruit always has seemed to me a weak one. Only indication about him, in terms of power is his bounty, which is not a good one. But Oda has plans for him, so he should be strong for sure.

    Not sure about Hancock. She is superior to Smoker and to Viceadmirals (Momonga), and easily beats the pacifistas pre time skip. But, beyond that level, we don't have enough evidence to know where she is; so she could be understimated as well as overestimated in that part of the ranking.

    What about the Pirate King level over the yonkou?

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    It's curious, I will rank Zoro a level up in your classification, and Luffy almost at the level of Doflamingo if not in that level.

    Kidd's fruit always has seemed to me a weak one. Only indication about him, in terms of power is his bounty, which is not a good one. But Oda has plans for him, so he should be strong for sure.

    Not sure about Hancock. She is superior to Smoker and to Viceadmirals (Momonga), and easily beats the pacifistas pre time skip. But, beyond that level, we don't have enough evidence to know where she is; so she could be understimated as well as overestimated in that part of the ranking.

    What about the Pirate King level over the yonkou?
    First, i should say that we have not seen most of the characters in my list fight a proper fight. My "estimation" is based on their abilities, their indicated and shown feats and of course symbolism or statements in the manga itself.
    I think guys like Law, Luffy and Kuma still have an edge over Zoro but that is only my opinion. We have not seen the SHs in a proper fight like pre-TS yet.
    Doflamingo was besides Hancock, Mihawk, the admirals (besides Akainu who fought WB) and Sengoku/Garp the only one in the war who was not hurt at all, despite taking on guys like Jozu, Crocodile or Atamos. He was toying with not only one but 2 VAs in Mariejoa, he fodderized Smoker who previously fought Law and Vergo equally, he has guys who should be or are almost as strong as Law (Vergo, the other seats) and his ability can control or even cut you without you realizing what´s going on. He, just like Hancock, just does not have this overwhelming and destructive power the admirals and WB have/had which is why he is almost on their level, but not completely.

    I don´t disagree with Kidd´s fruit seeming weak pre-TS. It seemed like he heavily relies on the amount of metal that is around him, including the metal his opponents carry but like i said, the symbolism is important here. He has been introduced as the only rival besides Law from Luffy´s generation and his fruit has an immense potential. Just think about Magneto.

    Hancock´s ability is extremely hard to defend against and is deadly upon impact. Forget about the Mero Mero Beam which probably would not work against high level characters but her slave arrows and her punching and kicking in general is always deadly, unless your CoA is strong enough. Just think about it. People have been pierced by Kizaru´s laser, frozen by Aokiji´s ice or burned by Akainu´s magma but they still came back (well, at least besides Ace) but there is no turning back from petrification. That + 3 types of Haki justifies her high level.

    If you are referring to Roger, i think it is clear that Roger, WB, Rayleigh and probably Garp in their respective prime were all stronger than the strongest guys right now who would be the Yonkou and the admirals. If Luffy is supposed to surpass Roger, then i would not be surprised if BB, Akainu and Luffy will be stronger than the rest of the elite at teh end of the series.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Hancock´s ability is extremely hard to defend against and is deadly upon impact. Forget about the Mero Mero Beam which probably would not work against high level characters but her slave arrows and her punching and kicking in general is always deadly, unless your CoA is strong enough. Just think about it. People have been pierced by Kizaru´s laser, frozen by Aokiji´s ice or burned by Akainu´s magma but they still came back (well, at least besides Ace) but there is no turning back from petrification. That + 3 types of Haki justifies her high level.
    But, is Hancock petrification ability efective against all rivals, in despite of their df or haki or physical abilities? We don't know. As CoC, it has been probed only against fodders, nothing more. So, as evidence to rank here there, it's higly arguable, valid only as an opinion (a fallible but possibly correct estimation). She could be also at the level of vice captains in your rank or at the level of Mihawk. As estimations those have the same chances to be true.
    Last edited by ukimix; March 11, 2013 at 09:12 AM.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    But, is Hancock petrification ability efective against all rivals, despite of their df or haki or physical abilities? We don't know. As CoC, it has been probed only against fodders, nothing more. So, as evidence to rank here there, it's higly arguable, valid only as an opinion (a fallible but possibly correct estimation).
    Like i said before, you would need a high level of Haki to defend yourself against it. The only ones who actually defended themselves against DF products and attacks with Haki successfully are Shanks against Akainu, Rayleigh against Kizaru and the 3 admirals against WB´s shockwave and i guess Vergo against Law in the past. Other than that, we did not see someone using Haki to defend against DFs. Furthermore, her ability should work despite the df or physical abilities of her opponent because she can combine it with Haki. Her Mero Mero beam only works if you have lustful feelings towards her but every other attacks works without that, proven by her turning the cannon balls into stone and petrifying the Pacifista. Furthermore, every kick of her is deadly because the point of impact turns into stone. http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-...55-page-5.html , http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-...55-page-6.html .

    Even if CoC only works against fodder, which is debatable considering the importance characters give it, it still is a part of the overall fighting ability of a character. Luffy had to fight 1000 marines in Enies Lobby before reaching Blueno and Lucci, now he could take out the entire island. The 100000 fishmen would have been much more dangerous without CoC and so forth. People are always degrade the importance of CoC by saying that it is only a "fodder attack" but i don´t see the problem in that, considering that with it you do not have to fear any number of fighters, you can basically take out entire countries.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Those are not the only ones. We already saw Sentomaru vs Luffy. So where would you put Sentomaru in the ranking?

    I don't say CoC is efective only agains fodders. I hope it will reveal as a major power. I say CoC has been probed effective only agains fodders. That's cannon. And the same we could say of Hancock's petrification power.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    Those are not the only ones. We already saw Sentomaru vs Luffy. So where would you put Sentomaru in the ranking?

    I don't say CoC is efective only agains fodders. I hope it will reveal as a major power. I say CoC has been probed effective only agains fodders. That's cannon. And the same we could say of Hancock's petrification power.
    Sentoumaru is hard, he seems to have a high level of Haki but nothing else.

    Like i said, even if it works only against fodder (CoC), it still is a huge power and a part of a character´s overall strength.
    The petrification power, meaning slave arrow and perfume femur, works just like any other DF attack from other character. Think about Vergo who was confident that his Haki would be enough against Law´s DF attack. Kizaru´s laser, Kuma´s DF for example also only worked against fodder until this point, or rather was only shown against fodder but nobody doubts their strength.
    What fact is: Hancock´s Mero Mero Beam only works against people who lust after her, every other attack has no requirements besides hitting the opponent. We have only seen people with high level of Haki defend against DF attacks, other than that it always worked.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Sentoumaru is hard, he seems to have a high level of Haki but nothing else.

    Like i said, even if it works only against fodder (CoC), it still is a huge power and a part of a character´s overall strength.
    The petrification power, meaning slave arrow and perfume femur, works just like any other DF attack from other character. Think about Vergo who was confident that his Haki would be enough against Law´s DF attack. Kizaru´s laser, Kuma´s DF for example also only worked against fodder until this point, or rather was only shown against fodder but nobody doubts their strength.
    What fact is: Hancock´s Mero Mero Beam only works against people who lust after her, every other attack has no requirements besides hitting the opponent. We have only seen people with high level of Haki defend against DF attacks, other than that it always worked.
    Yes. Sentomaru makes doubtful the idea that to be able to defend agains a df power with haki you have to be a high level fighter. Instead of that idea, it would be possible to say that in order to effectively be able to defend against a df power using haki, the difference in powers between the df fighter and the haki user has to be big enough. Put in the same ring the kid Luffy that just have eaten the gomu fruit (or even the Luffy from Romance Down times) and Tashigi from Punk Hazard times. Who do you think will win: the df power or the haki power? I would say, we can't be sure. But the fact that we can't be sure is evidence in favor of adopting that perspective.

    Now that you mention it, is that the reason why Luffy didn't get affected by Hancock's power: because he didn't lust after her? Do you have a reference? It would be really funny thing. When we read FI arc, I was especulating that if Teach defeats Hancock and robs her fruit, we would have a severe tragedy in the manga, because it would be horrible if everyone there want to kiss such an ugly guy. But if the feeling of lust is a requisite, that wouldn't be a problem. Because who is going to lust after Teach? Also that would be the weak point of Hancock's ability.
    Last edited by ukimix; March 11, 2013 at 10:03 AM.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by ukimix View Post
    Yes. Sentomaru makes doubtful the idea that to be able to defend agains a df power with haki you have to be a high level fighter. Instead of that idea, it would be possible to say that in order to effectively be able to defend against a df power using haki, the difference in powers between the df fighter and the haki user has to be big enough. Put in the same ring the kid Luffy that just have eaten the gomu fruit (or even the Luffy from Romance Down times) and Tashigi from Punk Hazard times. Who do you think will win: the df power or the haki power? I would say, we can't be sure. But the fact that we can't be sure is evidence in favor of adopting that perspective.

    Now that you mention it, is it that the reason why Luffy didn't get affected by Hancock's power? Because he didn't lust after her? Do you have a reference? It would be really funny thing. When we read FI arc, I was especulating that if Teach defeats Hancock and robs her fruit, we would have a severe tragedy in the manga, because it would be horrible if everyone there want to kiss such an ugly guy. But if the feeling of lust is a requisite, that wouldn't be a problem. Also that would be the weak point of Hancock's ability.
    Sentoumaru can easily have a high level of Haki without being a high level fighter overall. He said that he has the best defense in the world which is doubtful of course but would still make sense considering that he is/was Vegapunk´s bodyguard and VP is very important to the WG.

    Yes, Luffy had no lustful or impure thoughts about Hancock at all, that´s why her Mero Mero Beam did not work. Two panels http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-...6-page-18.html , http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-...18-page-6.html . Though i would not really call it a weakness. Mero Mero Beam is the only attack that requires the opponent having impure and lustful thoughts, every other attack works without that.
    Lol, people lusting after BB.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    I think some people overestimate luffy. Of course he has grown in those 2 years but I think there are still many unknown characters in the new world that are stronger than Luffy as well.

    I personally think atleast Yonkou, Admirals, Dragon,Doflamingo, Kuma, Kong, maybe 1. commanders of Yonkou, Jack and some unknown guys are above him.

    But some of them are at their maximum while Luffy keeps getting stronger and stronger. But if he was to challenge Doflamingo for example he would be beaten I guess. Luffy may be above Smoker for the first time - but Dofla DESTROYED smoker (granted he was weakened) and Luffy is not at that level yet.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by KuroKarasu View Post
    I think some people overestimate luffy. Of course he has grown in those 2 years but I think there are still many unknown characters in the new world that are stronger than Luffy as well.

    I personally think atleast Yonkou, Admirals, Dragon,Doflamingo, Kuma, Kong, maybe 1. commanders of Yonkou, Jack and some unknown guys are above him.

    But some of them are at their maximum while Luffy keeps getting stronger and stronger. But if he was to challenge Doflamingo for example he would be beaten I guess. Luffy may be above Smoker for the first time - but Dofla DESTROYED smoker (granted he was weakened) and Luffy is not at that level yet.
    Admirals, Yonkou, Dragon: most definitely. They're the top of the respective world powers. Still, I believe Luffy would at least be able to fight Dofla.
    Luffy couldn't beat Smoker because he didn't have haki; right now, Luffy would pulverize Smoker with a barrage of haki-coated punches (as Vergo explained, Smoker going smoke makes it easy for those punches to connect). So using Smoker as comparison is not good
    We could see a small repeat of Luffy vs Croc, just this time with the victory not based on Luffy exploiting Croc's natural weakness, but gradually getting stronger through multiple fights with Dofla, to the point when Dofla's finally beaten.
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    Admirals, Yonkou, Dragon: most definitely. They're the top of the respective world powers. Still, I believe Luffy would at least be able to fight Dofla.
    Luffy couldn't beat Smoker because he didn't have haki; right now, Luffy would pulverize Smoker with a barrage of haki-coated punches (as Vergo explained, Smoker going smoke makes it easy for those punches to connect). So using Smoker as comparison is not good
    We could see a small repeat of Luffy vs Croc, just this time with the victory not based on Luffy exploiting Croc's natural weakness, but gradually getting stronger through multiple fights with Dofla, to the point when Dofla's finally beaten.
    I don't think Luffy would stomp Smoker just because of his Haki. Smoker is a strong fighter and knows how to use his devil fruit. He is fast aswell (he was strong even in Tashigis body). If Luffy was at Doflamingos Level I would be a bit disappointed though. I think Dofla and Mihawk are the known characters closest to the strenght of the Admiral/Yonkou.

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    Re: Who is stronger than LuffY?

    Quote Originally Posted by KuroKarasu View Post
    I think some people overestimate luffy. Of course he has grown in those 2 years but I think there are still many unknown characters in the new world that are stronger than Luffy as well.

    I personally think atleast Yonkou, Admirals, Dragon,Doflamingo, Kuma, Kong, maybe 1. commanders of Yonkou, Jack and some unknown guys are above him.

    But some of them are at their maximum while Luffy keeps getting stronger and stronger. But if he was to challenge Doflamingo for example he would be beaten I guess. Luffy may be above Smoker for the first time - but Dofla DESTROYED smoker (granted he was weakened) and Luffy is not at that level yet.
    Who is Jack? I don't think Luffy would have too much trouble against Smoker, to be honest. Luffy should now be above him. As for Doflamingo stomping Smoker, it could also have been a match-up thing. Perhaps Dofla's DF is super effective against someone like Smoker. At the very least, Luffy's Haki puts him on par with people who would've destroyed him earlier in the series. Personally, I hope that there are people that are stronger than Luffy, otherwise it would become too boring. I don't think he can stand up to the top tier just yet, but probably will, soon.

    Dofla was scared shitless by the prospect of Kaido coming after him. In other words, Dofla should be fodder to someone like Kaido. That says a lot about the Yonkou's strength.

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