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Thread: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

  1. #676
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Orochimaru didn't necessarily affect Sasuke - he still refused to kill even when Orochimaru told him to. The only one that altered Sasuke's personality was Tobi (not counting Itachi). It wasn't until Tobi revealed the "truth" that Sasuke became a deranged, fucked up murderer who as far as I recall still has yet to kill anyone.
    Orochimaru definitely did affect Sasuke. As early as giving him the cursed seal, then sending in the sound 4 to screw with Sasuke's mind. Orochimaru helped shape the way that Sasuke searched for power, he helped make Sasuke the cold callous person that he was before he met Tobi.
    Just because Sasuke didn't follow Orochimaru's orders, does not mean that Sasuke's personality was not affected by Orochimaru.
    And just so we are clear, I am not necessarily talking about him being a "fucked up murderer" - and yes, he has killed people (just because they are unnamed/not main character ninjas does not mean that they are not people).
    Infinite RAGE!

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  3. #677
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Sasuke was cold after the Massacre before the Land of Waves arc. It was Naruto that made him warm up and be less distant, and it was Orochimaru who changed him back. Granted, he may have made Sasuke worse than before.

    Orochimaru just made Sasuke feel weaker than he was, though, with Sound 4 and Cursed Seal. Naruto didn't help when he beat Gaara. Apart from making Sasuke colder than he used to be, I don't see any affect Orochimaru had.

    I forgot about the samurai. Was wondering if J was killed or just knocked out from Tsukuyomi.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    J was probably killed. White Zetsu should also be counted as his kill since Sasuke apparently killed the original. And I think Danzo should be counted too.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Sasuke was cold after the Massacre before the Land of Waves arc. It was Naruto that made him warm up and be less distant, and it was Orochimaru who changed him back. Granted, he may have made Sasuke worse than before.

    Orochimaru just made Sasuke feel weaker than he was, though, with Sound 4 and Cursed Seal. Naruto didn't help when he beat Gaara. Apart from making Sasuke colder than he used to be, I don't see any affect Orochimaru had.
    He made Sasuke much worse. It's not so much that he was the one that made Sasuke feel weak, he offered Sasuke a taste of power, and Sasuke being Sasuke wanted more. Not to mention, the cursed seal help corrupt Sasuke's mind and drove him deeper into hatred fueled world.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  7. #680
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Not sure if Danzou should be counted as he killed himself although Sasuke dealt a fatal blow to him.

    He didn't commit evil acts though - closest he came to was possibly aiming to kill his former teammates. There's no question Orochimaru brought Sasuke back to the dark side, but can we still say Sasuke was as evil? Yeah, he was bad as he was willing to kill Team 7, but it's not like he was seeking them out. Plus, he detested Orochimaru and the way he treated lives, probably planning on eliminating him when Orochimaru couldn't teach him more.

    Though now that I think about it, being with Orochimaru made Sasuke think about killing his former teammates whereas Part I Sasuke never even thought about that.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Although Sasuke’s behavior may be somewhat understandable, he is the main responsible for his own actions… Not Konoha, nor Itachi, Tobi or Orochimaru… If he lacked the mental strength to overcome what he was presented for, it’s his fault alone… You say he didn’t had the support from the elders? We saw Sarutobi talking with Iruka over his parents, comforting him, why wouldn’t he do the same for Sasuke? Also, Sarutobi viewed the hole village as being part of his family, I’m sure he thought of sasuke as his family also. And Tobi said that the Uchiha clan was outcasted by Konoha? I was watching the Chuunin Shiken back in part 1, everyone there was there mainly to see the “Uchiha” vs Gaara, everyone there cheered Sasuke when he arrived, since when is that a treatment for someone outcasted? We have Naruto who received much worse treatment, from the very beginning of his life, and yet he was able to overcome that hatred and earn peoples trust. I believe Sasuke and Orochimaru do have one thing in common, they were always viewed as “genius”, and so people didn’t payed much attention to the slightest details, they were always favored from the rest (Orochimaru over Jiraya and Sasuke over Naruto for instance), and that “love” was the main factor people didn’t notice the “maniacs” they were becoming. We all saw how Sasuke was worshiped in school. Sasuke had it all, Kakashi failed? Only because he believed Sasuke was strong and had the will to overcome that, Kakashi trusted Sasuke to make the right decision, which he wasn’t… Then 5 or 6 of Sasuke’s comrades risked their lives to bring him home, all for nothing… Sasuke left them on his account. All it took for Naruto was the love (maybe “recognition” is a more appropriate word) from Iruka, why wasn’t all the recognitnion, devotion, love, he had from his teammates, senseis, fellow villagers not enough? It wasn’t enough because all he cam think of is “revenge”. Now, where does this revenge come from? Because Itachi made the wrong choice, he felt like the best thing to co was to make Sasuke hate him so that one day he would be stron enough and kill him, making a hero out of Sasuke, but this led Sasuke to make the wrong choices at a critical stage of his growth… But in the end, it was all Sasuke’s decision, he had a choice, and he choose “revenge”.
    Funny is that when they were "hebi", Sasuke had a somewhat noble atitude, telling Suigetsu not to kill anyone and such, but then, after Itachi died, and they started calling themselves "taka", he changed his atitude, becoming more recless, searching and kidnaping Bee, killing whoever got in his way, acting much more recklessly, and much more deadly (they killed Jay, all those samurais, he was willig to kill eve Karin just for a hit at Danzo, he did landed a fatal blow on Danzo, so even if he didn't killed himself, he was dead anyway, sooner or later, he did tried to kill Sakura, Kakashi and Naruto, so yea, now he IS evil.

    Now, about the Uchiha massacre. I don’t believe that Sarutobi was unaware of what was happening, but I feel that he just couldn’t reach an agreement with Uchiha’s higher ups… So they felt they just didn’t had any other choice… Of course we can wonder “where all the Uchihas guilty?”, I believe not, but we have to take in consideration that if Itachi and Shisui were on the Uchiha side, they had the advantage… With Shisui’s ability they could make Sarutobi act as they wished without anyone finding out, but no, 2 of the strongest Uchiha’s were against their own clan, which for me says a lot about who’s side was right was who’s side was wrong. I believe that the decision to whipe out the entire clan came because they balance it was either that or a civil war, and they chose the lesser of 2 evils… I can imagine a situation were the Uchiha’s don’t want to leave the village because as a founding clan they feel like they “own” the place, but they also want a leading position because they feel like “a better clan” than the rest, and are willing to take every course of action necessary to accomplish that. Seeing as there is no way to alter their minds, a hard choice had to be made… Of course it wasn’t the best choice, we all know that, and I, as everyone else, can imagine the countless innocents murdered that night, but I believe that that is more accounted in the Uchiha, from what I understand, Konoha tried to reach a peaceful resolution, but the Uchiha wanted power, so the negotiations failed. Konoha felt cornered, and had to take drastic measures. At least that’s how I see it.

  9. #682
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 102jayday's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    This is a silly question and may have been asked before but..
    How come Jiraya pervy sage wasn't bought back with edo tensho? He did die and it has had all of them show up so far. It would of been great for Naruto to speak to him one more time.

    Manga Berserk, Gantz, Rurouni Kenshin, Claymore<3 Fav Anime FMAB! Gundam seed, Nana, InitialD.

  10. #683
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by 102jayday View Post
    This is a silly question and may have been asked before but..
    How come Jiraya pervy sage wasn't bought back with edo tensho? He did die and it has had all of them show up so far. It would of been great for Naruto to speak to him one more time.
    He is "buried" at the bottom of the ocean, where he can't be retrieved.
    If I'm not mistaken Kabuto said so to Tobi when he explained Edo Tensei to him

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  12. #684
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by 102jayday View Post
    This is a silly question and may have been asked before but..
    How come Jiraya pervy sage wasn't bought back with edo tensho? He did die and it has had all of them show up so far. It would of been great for Naruto to speak to him one more time.
    Kabuto was unable to get his DNA
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member 102jayday's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Thanks, I kinda thought for a second maybe he somehow lived XD
    Just watched the final ep's of Jiraya miss him.

    Manga Berserk, Gantz, Rurouni Kenshin, Claymore<3 Fav Anime FMAB! Gundam seed, Nana, InitialD.

  15. #686
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    He is "buried" at the bottom of the ocean, where he can't be retrieved.
    If I'm not mistaken Kabuto said so to Tobi when he explained Edo Tensei to him
    But Kabuto said it was possible because Pain's weapon might still have Jiraiya's blood on it.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    But Kabuto said it was possible because Pain's weapon might still have Jiraiya's blood on it.
    True, yet Tobi is the only one that can give Kabuto Nagato's original body or gave away Deva Path's location ( Yahiko's body ).
    Seeing as Tobi was pretty pissed when Kabuto asked for it, I doubt it would've been happened, since I doubt that Tobi would be willing to give Kabuto a body that housed the Rin'negan.
    Hell he was being all picky with a freakin' fodder Zetsu

  17. #688
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    I don't think he needs to, since weapons were probably discarded somewhere in Amegakure. Pain used rods from his body, which he detached.

    Kabuto probably found DNA where Hanzou vs. the orphans battle took place, or quite possibly where Nagato hacked up blood. Though he could have easily slipped into Amegakure and found Nagato's body with his sensing ability.

  18. #689
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    All this talk about Jiraiya has me thinking

    What if Tobi summons Jiraiya during his battle with Naruto? It wont really serve much purpose considering Naruto now seems strong mentally... Or Kabuto summons Jiraiya at some point?
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Strong mentally? Naruto seems pretty much the same as he always been. So I'm sure a revived Jiraiya would have a big emotional effect if he was to appear. Though him actually having any sort of effect physically in the fight would be doubt seeing how well the rest of the revived ninjas have fared.

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