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Thread: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

  1. #916
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    @ Uchiha_Blood,

    All taijutsu would require the user to have speed to get into melee range, but nobody has moved with this tunnel vision to do so. Why would you suddenly expect Kakashi to have tunnel vision because he made Chakra in his hands, even if you think that it is a melee range jutsu? Gai knows how Chidori works and is explaining a bunch of Chidori stuff that Minato has no knowledge of. If he didn't, I doubt he'll link speed with must be a raiton stab. Lee also deduced it after witnessing the justsu. Minato apparently is the only one who deduce the tunnel vision weakness of chidori from having chakra in Kakashi's hand, because he is smart.
    You're right on the account we can't be 100% certain, its one of those situations where it isn't spelled out, but is implied by logic and panels.
    Also careful, tunnel vision isn't produced ( even if produced isn't the right word, more like experienced ) when moving at high speed, it is produced in a straight forward charge, you may or not have experienced it when going on a straight on your car at high velocity.

    Going, say, at zig-zag would've been pointless since he would've lost momentum and speed, with an attack like Chidori, basically the same as having a super powered sword or spear in your hand, you can only charge at high velocity to be effective in a situation like that ( I stressed it out because it was highly situational ), don't forget that Iwa fodder's KB were spread over all the forest, meaning Kakashi had to be fast, fast and even more fast to deal with them before that Iwa fodder could regroup, Kakashi himself said so.
    Again as you said it isn't 100% foolproof, but then again Kishi can't show what every single character thinks:
    Kakashi was the main guy, thus the spotlight was focused on him

  2. #917
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    @ Schabrak,

    We are having a discussion of actual manga events, so things need to factual or at least be highly supported by manga evidence. If know that its mostly an assumption, backed up by little evidence, why should I just accept it as if its a canon manga event? Why is it unreasonable for me to ask you to prove it?

    I made the claim that Lee duplicated Minato's feat of figuring out Chidori's weakness. That is a FACT. M3J then claims Minato knew it right from the raiton chakra activation. Well, that's just his assumption that he, you, and others are trying to prove with more assumptions. I don't even care if you think you have the perfect logical explanation of how he can deduce such a thing (which I find BS btw), it doesn't make it any more valid in terms of it being canon. It's all just something you made up and can't proven with any certainty. So no, its a manga FACT that Lee duplicated Minato's feat of figuring out Chidori's weakness, and that Minato did NOT figure the weakness during its activation unless you can prove otherwise, which you didn't.

    @ Uchiha_Blood,

    The above response applies to you as well.

    Simply moving at high speed and linearly did not cause the inability to react. Kakashi can be moving linearly at w/e his normal high speed is and still be able to react just fine without the need to zig zag. The Chidori speed rush is specifically designed to put ALL the energy into a single linear charge. That is why he cannot react and adjust properly. So even if, and I mean if, Minato somehow predicted a linear strike, how could he have known that Kakashi had developed the singular speed thrust skill AND that it would cause him the inability to react?

    Anyways, like I said in other posts, that isn't even the main argument. The whole point was the need to use the manga to prove your assumptions. You can't just pass it off as manga facts if we are discussing actual manga events.
    Last edited by chilibun; July 13, 2012 at 11:51 AM.

  3. #918
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    I could answer to your latest post, but it seems like I'm talking past you and the actual points don't reach you. It's been an annoyance to talk to you, so I put you on the IL. Bye, have fun getting on the other members nerves. If real life strategies and realisitic approaches on problems are so out of your imagination, than nothing will be able to convince you.

    P.S.: Stop answering to the members. You act as if you could be argued with in this particular topic, but you are not.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    @ Schabrak,

    I don't deny missing some points because I do speed read through most of these posts. Just in case I missed anything from latest one, let just confirm what I got from it.

    Rawr. Me Angry. Rawr. I only makeup facts. Rawr.

    Is that everything?

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    @ Uchiha_Blood,

    The above response applies to you as well.

    Simply moving at high speed and linearly did not cause the inability to react. Kakashi can be moving linearly at w/e his normal high speed is and still be able to react just fine without the need to zig zag. The Chidori speed rush is specifically designed to put ALL the energy into a single linear charge. That is why he cannot react and adjust properly. So even if, and I mean if, Minato somehow predicted a linear strike, how could he have known that Kakashi had developed the singular speed thrust skill AND that it would cause him the inability to react?

    Anyways, like I said in other posts, that isn't even the main argument. The whole point was the need to use the manga to prove your assumptions. You can't just pass it off as manga facts if we are discussing actual manga events.
    Because a straight-forward attack was the only option Kakashi had, and a straight-forward attack, with a jutsu like Chidori, would mean exactly that. The only thing, again, that prevents a Chidori user from reacting is tunnel vision, which, again, is produced by linear high-speed movements.

    While I agree with you on the manga feats part, I also think that the author can't spell out every single detail, one can say that, in contrast to Rin and Obito's amazed looks, Yondaime looked pretty grim from the moment Kakashi created Chidori, even before heading out, and that was a big enough hint that he figured the jutsu out with just a glance, hell remember Haku? A fight, and he had the Sharingan figured inside out.

    I can also understand that you're baffled by it, part 2 rendered Chidori's requirement useless, now Kakashi and Sasuke can use it without running or doing fast movements with the same results with no apparent reason, hell Sasuke used it without the Sharingan on!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    @ Uchiha_Blood,

    A straight-foward attack does NOT equal tunnel vision. We've seen like a billion straight linear attacks used with no problems. Chidori is composed of two independent skills, the lightning blade and the speed thrust. You don't need to use both, even in part 1. Sasuke uses the chidori without the speed thrust against Gaara duing the chase through the woods. He only needed to use the speed thrust when Gaara is in his protective sand ball because he needed that extra piercing power. Since there is basically no relations between the lightning blade and the speed thrust skill, how can Minato possibly deduce that Kakashi developed that skill from simply seeing the lightning blade? At that point, its no different than any melee weapon, like a rasengan. Oh yea, the logic is that there is 20 enemies, so he must be using a speed skill that puts himself in danger...

    Haku witnessed the sharingan jutsus completely, so there is plenty of information he can analyze and draw conclusions from. Minato, however, doesn't know anything about Kakashi's new jutsu except he made raiton chakra in his hands. Not the same thing at all.

    Sorry, Minato had that same stupid grim look since like the beginning of the of the mission. Don't tell me that look suddenly have meanings now. The way you guys try to stretch the manga to provide evidence is amazing.

    Kishi doesn't need to spell out everything because most things are inconsequential, including this. However, it is clear that Minato explains Chidori's weakness after completely witnessing it so that's when he figured it out. There is no conclusive evidence in the manga that implies he knew it before hand. The only reason why this is even an issue is because Minato fanboys consistently use unproven assumptions to further glorify Minato. Meanwhile, the manga fact that he deduced Chidori's weakness after completely witnessing Chidori is staring them right in the face.
    Last edited by chilibun; July 14, 2012 at 11:56 AM.

  7. #922
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    @ Uchiha_Blood,

    A straight-foward attack does NOT equal tunnel vision. We've seen like a billion straight linear attacks used with no problems. Chidori is composed of two independent skills, the lightning blade and the speed thrust. You don't need to use both, even in part 1. Sasuke uses the chidori without the speed thrust against Gaara duing the chase through the woods. He only needed to use the speed thrust when Gaara is in his protective sand ball because he needed that extra piercing power. Since there is basically no relations between the lightning blade and the speed thrust skill, how can Minato possibly deduce that Kakashi developed that skill from simply seeing the lightning blade? At that point, its no different than any melee weapon, like a rasengan. Oh yea, the logic is that there is 20 enemies, so he must be using a speed skill that puts himself in danger...

    Haku witnessed the sharingan jutsus completely, so there is plenty of information he can analyze and draw conclusions from. Minato, however, doesn't know anything about Kakashi's new jutsu except he made raiton chakra in his hands. Not the same thing at all.

    Sorry, Minato had that same stupid grim look since like the beginning of the of the mission. Don't tell me that look suddenly have meanings now. The way you guys try to stretch the manga to provide evidence is amazing.

    Kishi doesn't need to spell out everything because most things are inconsequential, including this. However, it is clear that Minato explains Chidori's weakness after completely witnessing it so that's when he figured it out. There is no conclusive evidence in the manga that implies he knew it before hand. The only reason why this is even an issue is because Minato fanboys consistently use unproven assumptions to further glorify Minato. Meanwhile, the manga fact that he deduced Chidori's weakness after completely witnessing Chidori is staring them right in the face.
    And the length you are going in order to prove a dead point is spectacularly mind blowing lol

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-244-18...apter-239.html Minato spotted the enemy and told his team member that there are 20 of them.
    Kakashi said I will head in please cover me
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-244-19...apter-239.html Kakashi formed his knife and gets ready to attack.
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-245-7/...apter-240.html What Minato feared about the jutsu is about to come to pass
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-245-8/...apter-240.html and it came to pass. Kakashi was unable to counteract against the enemies sword and ended up bleeding because.......
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-245-14...apter-240.html Are you paying attention to what Minato said about this Jutsu? He didn't guess what he was talking about; he knew what he was talking about. "Because the speed of your movement is so fast, you can't see your opponents counter".

    So what gave it away?
    Part 1) Kakashi said "I will head in please cover me". This lets us know that he’s going to rush in.
    Part 2) He formed his knife which had a huge drawback of obstructing his vision (It's lightning for CRYING OUT LOUD) even more so at high speed. Why wouldn’t it be at high speed? Do you expect his to slowly walk straight to his enemy and essentially exposing himself to whatever attacks they are pull out? That would mean he’s retarded. “I will head in”
    part 3) Minato knew that he is going to attack as fast as possible with his lightning knife based on 'what gave it away part 1' and he is expected(by Kakashi) to cover for him
    Now I don’t even see how a genius is even required to point out something so basic yet you are foolishly making a big deal out of it.

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  9. #923
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    @ Uchiha_Blood,

    A straight-foward attack does NOT equal tunnel vision. We've seen like a billion straight linear attacks used with no problems. Chidori is composed of two independent skills, the lightning blade and the speed thrust. You don't need to use both, even in part 1. Sasuke uses the chidori without the speed thrust against Gaara duing the chase through the woods. He only needed to use the speed thrust when Gaara is in his protective sand ball because he needed that extra piercing power. Since there is basically no relations between the lightning blade and the speed thrust skill, how can Minato possibly deduce that Kakashi developed that skill from simply seeing the lightning blade? At that point, its no different than any melee weapon, like a rasengan. Oh yea, the logic is that there is 20 enemies, so he must be using a speed skill that puts himself in danger...

    Haku witnessed the sharingan jutsus completely, so there is plenty of information he can analyze and draw conclusions from. Minato, however, doesn't know anything about Kakashi's new jutsu except he made raiton chakra in his hands. Not the same thing at all.

    Sorry, Minato had that same stupid grim look since like the beginning of the of the mission. Don't tell me that look suddenly have meanings now. The way you guys try to stretch the manga to provide evidence is amazing.

    Kishi doesn't need to spell out everything because most things are inconsequential, including this. However, it is clear that Minato explains Chidori's weakness after completely witnessing it so that's when he figured it out. There is no conclusive evidence in the manga that implies he knew it before hand. The only reason why this is even an issue is because Minato fanboys consistently use unproven assumptions to further glorify Minato. Meanwhile, the manga fact that he deduced Chidori's weakness after completely witnessing Chidori is staring them right in the face.
    Call it "Kishi's logic" and/or "Part 1 logic", Lee and Yondaime clearily said that an attack, a charge like Chidori creates tunnel vision, a fact that got all but disproved in part 2.
    That part you quote against Gaara still involves Sasuke somewhat gaining momentum to strike ( he jumped both times towards Gaara, since he couldn't ran to him ).
    Maybe he couldn't be 100% certain of every single effect of Chidori, but I already illustrated why Yondaime could've been wary of the jutsu.

    Saw it like this, Kakuzu didn't knew the exact effect FRS had, but got a pretty good idea of the general thing:
    if you get it, you get destroyed.

    Also no, he definitely doesn't have the same expression since before he seemed alert, but pretty relaxed as you can see throughout the whole chapter ( can't believe it got to analyzing his expressions ).
    Who smiles in the middle of a mission on a war, apart from morons like Naruto and Bee?

    If it is inconsequential, then why are you raging over it?
    Its like saying "Kabuto owned Itachi and Sasuke before the asspull Izanami, so he's stronger than both of them combined HA!" or "Hiruzen beat Hashirama and Tobirama at the same time, so he's the strongest Hokage!".
    How can someone glorify a character if the feat is, as you said, inconsequential? You can discuss on that, since Lee concluded the same thing, instead of heatly debating over something like this.
    I really don't see the point, but hey, maybe it's me, since I personally believe it isn't something big since, again, someone like Lee concluded the same thing

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  11. #924
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    we are close to the 600th chapter. i think we are going to meet the sage of six paths at the chapter 600.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    You mean Sasuke and Naruto will go Fusion-ha! into Naruke/Saruto? TSo6P has been dead for decades if not centuries, can't imagine how there would be a chance of him coming back unless in a new version as with Naruto Rikudou mode.
    Last edited by Schabrak; July 17, 2012 at 06:45 PM.
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    You mean Sasuke and Naruto will go Fusion-ha! into Naruke/Saruto? TSo6P has been dead for decades if not centuries, can't imagine how there would be a chance of him coming back unless in a new version as with Naruto Rikudou mode.
    Nah, the human who knows everything may be So6P, so there is a chance that we ll meet him soon and the 600th chapter is the perfect time for it Or we may see a flashback of him fighting 10 tails at 600. But of course those are no more than random guesses
    Last edited by hgurb; July 18, 2012 at 09:11 AM.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Spoiler show



    I honestly don't know about this. If the war overall hasn't disconnected people enough, then extending the series for to much longer will just make it worse. I still love the series, I do, and it is because of that that I don't want it to catch inuyasha syndrome. Of course this is just my personal opinion.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    As I said elsewhere (this interview has been posted in about every topic), it's not 1,5 years from now, but from when he was asked by Nishio and most likely he was asked when he was working on the movie a couple of months ago. And it's "it seems" it will take longer, not "it will take longer for sure". I am pretty sure Shueisha and Kishi are already planning to end Naruto at the end of next year. (new series usually start at the beginning of the year)

    As for Kakashi, well, he said he wanted to write about him and that he wasn't able to. He didn't say yet or that he still would write about him. (unless it's lost in the transcription / translation)
    This works against Tobito, I guess. Kishi definitely would have said he had something big for Kakashi coming very soon.

    On the other hand, Obito is the usual suspect if you want to know which character has been brought back that Kishi didn't plan to bring back. Him or Oro, but the interview is apparently very recent (posted 2 days ago on 2ch), so I think the japanese already know Oro is back and he is not the one mentioned. If it's not Obito or Orochimaru, then it's Jiraiya for a sannin fight or Minato for a Itachi level contribution to maintain the balance. In both cases, this is borderline filler.

    Right now, Kishi is in a dead end. He can't make the manga last much longer. He spent the last few years narrowing his world instead of expanding it (by the times the other villages got into the manga, they were completely irrelevant. Their only contribution to the manga was to be flattened by Uchiha) and he is now almost out of material.

    There should be about 60-65 issues left. 10 for the Tobi fight, 10 for Juubi + RS flashback, 10 for Naru Sasu fight, 3 for epilogue and you are left with a little more than 30 chapters (6-7 months) to solve Sasuke's part of the story, Kabuto's redemption fight (he was not left untouched for nothing), Kakashi, Sakura and the rookies stories. Sounds about right.
    Last edited by Rahan; July 20, 2012 at 08:45 PM.

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  17. #929
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12


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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    There's no reason that Kishi can't give Naruto more jutsu. Naruto should be able to remember handseals, he should be given more jutsu now. Kishi needs to give Naruto the respect he deserves and give him more jutsu.
    Vote for koen for favorite senpai so koen is active again!

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