Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

[Uchiha_Blood]

Okay I admit that would've been better than Obito being Tobi, imagine if Sakura really died and Naruto ended up fighting an evil version of himself ? *mindfuck*

Naruto's snapping already happened, when Pein seemingly killed Hinata.
Naruto survived his hatred because of his father, Obito didn't because Madara found him first. Imagine if Madara, and not Yondaime would've talked to Naruto in that moment

[M3J]

Man, your forum has so many Tobi/Obito threads you sure could use a Tobi/Obito subforum, eh?

"What would you have done with 'tobi'?" "Why Tobi shouldn't be Obito" "Let's Talk About Why Your Tobito "Plotholes" Aren't Plotholes" "Gaiden II: Obito??" " Let's Try and Piece together the Mystery that is "Tobi" - Images Provided" "What was Tobi planning to do that could kill him in the process?" "What was Madara and Tobi initial plan ?" "The sad truth about "Obito Uchiha"." "Why didn't Madara get Tobi to ET him from the very start so he could haxor it?" "The most direct connection between Obito and Zetsu" "Tobi and kiba preditsion..." "Two Tobi's?" "Obito, why it fits. [Theory]"

First page of the list only...

Hey, if it was up to me, I'd delete Tobito, even if it was 100% canon.


Naw, imagine if Kyuubi wasn't interrupted by that pesky blonde kid. D:

[gnut]

Haha...well as it turns out, whenever there's a major development, people show their funny side as well...here's another one from a week or two ago...not an edit, but still awesome...this one came regarding the question, why didn't Naruto smash Tobi's face with that rasengan...

that shit is classic...

[jaymizzo]

Naruto's snapping already happened, when Pein seemingly killed Hinata.
Naruto survived his hatred because of his father, Obito didn't because Madara found him first. Imagine if Madara, and not Yondaime would've talked to Naruto in that moment

Naruto had the apparent embodiment of hate in him for 16 years. Unless Madaras hate is stonger than the Kyuubis i dont think much would have changed. The one thing i liked about Narutos character is that we learnt during the Pein arc and the Bee Arc was that he was not pure hearted and hate could influence him.

My point is that, regardless of who got to him first, i still personally believe Naruto would have subdued all his hate like he has been doing only to come face it later. Naruto never had friends, he forcibly made them.

[M3J]

how did Naruto forcibly make friends? I thought he did it naturally by inspiring them and earning respect. He didn't start making friends and getting respect until he beat Kiba, and then he earned more respect when he beat Neji and a possible lifelong friend by beating Gaara. Like most shounen, Naruto made friends by fighting, whether directly or indirectly.

I liked how Naruto was shown to have hate. Like, almost every shounen characters don't have that kind of hate in them, or darkness. Made sense though, as Naruto was treated horribly and resented the villagers for their treatment when he didn't know why he was looked down upon. Characters like Goku and Luffy never got that kind of hatred, Luffy just experienced loneliness until he met Ace.

It's why I think Naruto's a more complex character than most shounen heroes, and why the manga is or was pretty complex for your typical shounen.

[jaymizzo]

how did Naruto forcibly make friends? I thought he did it naturally by inspiring them and earning respect. He didn't start making friends and getting respect until he beat Kiba, and then he earned more respect when he beat Neji and a possible lifelong friend by beating Gaara. Like most shounen, Naruto made friends by fighting, whether directly or indirectly.

I liked how Naruto was shown to have hate. Like, almost every shounen characters don't have that kind of hate in them, or darkness. Made sense though, as Naruto was treated horribly and resented the villagers for their treatment when he didn't know why he was looked down upon. Characters like Goku and Luffy never got that kind of hatred, Luffy just experienced loneliness until he met Ace.

It's why I think Naruto's a more complex character than most shounen heroes, and why the manga is or was pretty complex for your typical shounen.

Exactly... Forcibly. He did not sit back and everyone came swooping in and kissing his nice butt. I think you misunderstood the kind of force im talking about. Naruto had to make people respect him through his actions etc is what i meant. And i also referred to that as the fact that Naruto was not carried by anything, he had hate but he supressed it because he saw something different for himself. Though Madara would have tainted his heart to extremes i still believe that Naruto would have changed if he was to meet people afterwards.

Thats one of the things i love about Naruto. The characters did not seem typical at all. You could not exactly read most of them and they were well written. Part 2 IMO just destroyed most of the manga, we did get to see a lot of great writing - Itachi and Jiraiyas deaths will forever go into my list of best Manga moments. But the war and most of the things leading up to it were just stupid.

[M3J]

If Madara got to him before Iruka admitted he considered Naruto part of the village, or before Naruto was with Team 7, I think Madara or Tobi could have twisted Naruto's mind. Even Naruto himself admitted how close he was to the dark side when he fought or learned more about Gaara and when he and Sasuke rasechidori'd each other. Naruto was just given a chance before he went bad, I think, as well as believing that attention in any way was better. Plus, no one attempted to kill him like they did with Gaara, nor did he experience any sense of loss like Nagato did.

I dunno, it depends on the kind of person Naruto was. Right now, if Madara changed him to the ultimate evil person, I do think Naruto would have changed back to a good person he was. He's experienced friendship, bonds, and all that so he knows how valuable they are, an dhow it feels. If the Naruto back then was turned evil, I think it'd be extremely hard for him to turn good because he's experienced only hardships.

Even the villains didn't exactly seem like villains. Zabuza and Haku near the end of the arcs looked more like forced villains, and we were made to question whether anyone that went against Naruto were truly bad guys or not due to the concept of shinobi. We learned that each village and shinobi did what they could to survive, and it wasn't merely out of selfishness. Part II did do something decent and showed us that Konoha wasn't the protagonist that was introduced to us in Part I. It showed that even Konoha was part of the problem and could be evil in order to survive. Actually, the five great nations in my opinion symbolize the countries in real world, like United States, England, Germany, etc.

Jiraiya's death was quite possibly my favorite death ever, and it's ironic because Jiraiya's one of my favorite ever. It's why I'm so thankful Kishi didn't bring him back - he can stay forever epic. Itachi is my favorite, and he had a good death, nothing that made me as emotional as Jiraiya's, but bringing him back screwed him up in my opinion. Rather than show what Itachi can do, Kishi just wanted an easy way of giving the Uchiha a challenge while making them win to end Edo Tensei.

It'd have been cruel but good if Kishi just let the ET stay sealed, at least for a long time.

[Uchiha_Blood]

Naruto had the apparent embodiment of hate in him for 16 years. Unless Madaras hate is stonger than the Kyuubis i dont think much would have changed. The one thing i liked about Narutos character is that we learnt during the Pein arc and the Bee Arc was that he was not pure hearted and hate could influence him.

My point is that, regardless of who got to him first, i still personally believe Naruto would have subdued all his hate like he has been doing only to come face it later. Naruto never had friends, he forcibly made them.

I agree with M3J that, should Madara got to Naruto before he made friends, then Naruto would probably be just as dark.
Let's not forget that we were told against Gaara and against Sasuke just how easy it would have been for Naruto to chose the wrong way.

I was talking about here

[KiSwordsman]

But like i said, Kishi may not want to because it's not their fighting style and he probably felt he cleared that up with past statements and databook.

Past statements and the data book? Just like how Mokuton use to not be a bloodline limit? Just like how Hiruzen was the "strongest" kage of his generation, or of the time?

[M3J]

Just supports my point that we take action as fact, not what Kishi says, what the databooks say, or even some of what the characters say. Raikage saying Minato is faster than he is can be taken as fact, but not him saying he's the fastest, unless he's fought every single ninja or knows them. Words can be lies, Kishi can make up red herrings, and databooks aren't always accurate. Manga however, rarely shows false stuff. Itachi was revealed to be nice? Makes sense considering he didn't kill Kakashi, Kurenai, and Asuma when he could have. And from what we saw, he could kill Jiraiya as well, but chose to use Jiraiya's hype to run away.

[mak123]

Do you have a version of this image without words?

[KiSwordsman]

Doesn't matter. He still had to have skill to be able to do all of that stuff. Similar to how Kakashi needed to have already been skilled in other tools to haev been able to properly wield Sharingan or how Madara learned to use Hashirama's abilities. There are Uchiha that never awaken their eyes. Nagato used what he was given and used it well. We can'ttell what Nagato would've been like if he didn't have Rinnegan. He just has it. There are no what ifs. Nagato still had to have innate skills to be a good shinobi for him to have become so powerful with Rinnegan.

And that's the problem, when it comes to him we have to make assumptions. We have to assume that Nagato was a good ninja simply due to the fact that he had the Rinnegan. Because apparently, "you would have to be a great ninja in order to use those eyes effectively." We've never seen him without them so we have to make assumptions. We can say that Naruto is a good ninja without using the fox's chakra, because we've seen it. We can say that Sasuke is a good ninja without EMS, because we've seen it. We can say that Bee is a good ninja without the Hachibi, because we've seen it. When it comes to Nagato however, we are forced to make assumptions due to the fact that he has not done anything outside of what those eyes grant him. That is bullshit in my opinion.

[M3J]

No, but even with Rinnegan Nagato had some problems. He failed to kill JIraiya on first try (even though it was for plot purposes, since he'd have succeeded), he had difficulty against JIraiya before the Frog Song, and even during the war Nagato lost one body three times. Once against Kakashi, once against Konohamaru, and... well, I forgot, so probably two times. And then like an emotional idiot, he used up tons of his chakrak to blast Konoha when he could have used it to fight Naruto.

Basically put, Nagato without the Rinnegan would be another idiot who's good in taijutsu. I mean, even his ability to master all elements came from the Rinnegan.

[KiSwordsman]

I'm not saying he didn't have problems with it. What irks me is the fact that people like making comparisons between Nagato and Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and Madara. when the latter ninja have shown or it's been said that they are good even without the things that were "Given" to them. Or in Madara's case, taken. we have not seen Nagato without the Rinnegan, so we are just supposed to assume that he was good simply because he was able to "use its power effectively." What kind of crap is that?

Oh, come on now. Kakashi's eye was given to him as well, but he's one of the most awesome characters in the series, in my opinion. Although the fact that Nagato turned out to be such a pawn is a shame for his character. But at least he defied Madara and Obito's plan in his last moments.

I've already gone through this whole thing with Kakashi getting his eye vs Nagato getting his, but Ill do it again. Kakashi was said to be a great ninja before he got the eye. Nagato was not so lucky. We never see him without the Rinnegan therefore, you have to make the assumption that he "has to be a great ninja to use such things effectively." So where as Kakashi has evidence in the fact that he was a Jōnin at the age of 13, and already praised as a genius beforehand, We have to make assumptions for Nagato because he was able to "use the Rinnegan's power effectively." There is also the fact that he never used any power or ability outside of what those eyes afforded him, and the fact that he was never his own person. Nagato wasn't just a pawn, he was an absolute tool. Even the one decision that he made on his own, to defy Madara, ended up making him look like a follower.


So yes, kishimoto shat on his character, hard.

[M3J]

Oh, I agree. Nagato using his brain showed he's not that good at all. He relies only on his Rinnegan to survive and win. Sasuke, Itachi, Kakashi, Naruto, and etc rely on their own skills as well, and their brain. Sharingan, whether Mangekyo or Eternal and the bijuu, even Kyuubi, do not give as much free powerups and asspulls as Rinnegan.

Honestly though, Kishi shat on Nagato's character during the invasion, at the earliest, if not when he was fighting Naruto. Book no jutsu one-shotted Nagato. <_<