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Thread: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

  1. #1321
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Though not everyone can use shiki fuujin. :P

    There obviously was a reason why two fine and healthy looking Hokage[1st and 2nd] had entrusted their village to Sarutobi and being nice was definitely not high on the priority list.
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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    But that kinda of goes for everyone. And with the sacrifice of being fucked for eternity.
    Still makes him capable of taking out anyone, meaning people would reluctant to fight him. Orochimaru was shitting bricks when his soul was getting sealed.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Anyone play Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Generations? Saw the cutscene where Madara fought Hashirama at Valley of the End and thought the fight was pretty good, minus the whole "zomg they're gliding/hovering/flying!!" thing. I might watch the anime version of that fight, it was pretty badass.
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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Anyone play Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Generations? Saw the cutscene where Madara fought Hashirama at Valley of the End and thought the fight was pretty good, minus the whole "zomg they're gliding/hovering/flying!!" thing. I might watch the anime version of that fight, it was pretty badass.
    I've seen that it was awesome, although I wish the two of them would throw out more techniques than they did.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Agreed. That was my favorite part of the game, that fight was brilliantly done. The ending was good too. Pretty cool how they went as far as Naruto stealing the Kyuubi's chakra... or close to it.......... I think.

    The opponents aggravated me though. <_< the way they kept on hitting without stopping, and I kept running out of substitution jutsu. <___<
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Hiruzen was said to have known ever jutsu in Konoha.

    From what he has shown, could he defeat Madara or many of the other Kages? No, he'd get steam rolled.

    But...if we use our imagination, and what we know about Hiruzen we can get a general idea of what he is capable of. Lets start with these five points.

    1) He was called the "God of shinobi" and was hailed by some as the strongest Hokage ever. That right there is tells us his power is top tier.

    2) He was also called the professor because he knew every Konoha jutsu (obviously not Kekkai Genkai jutsu, or clan techniques). This tells us his arsenal is massive.

    3) His databook stats indicate him having 5's in Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, Taijutsu. This goes with the God of Shinobi thing. His speed and stamina were lower than great, we can chalk this up to old age.

    4) His ANBU body guards said in his younger age he would use multiple Shadow Clones in battle regularly. We know that when he was younger he had a hell of a lot of chakra, probably as much if not more than Jiraiya.

    5) He was taught by arguably the greatest warrior ever in Hashirama.

    Assuming all of this, let me paint a scenerio:

    A young and powerful Hiruzen creates 10 clones all of whom start throwing around A-S rank ninjutsu at long range. He can keep doing this meaning you may never get in close contact with him which spells doom for a lot of ninja. The ONLY shinobi I realistically seeing giving him trouble would be Hashirama, Madara, Nagato, Oonoki, 3rd Raikage, Itachi and Minato. And quite honestly, if he uses the Death God he can kill anyone.
    1) True, but he was hailed all the way back then, when Hashirama's power was doubted and considered a fairy tale. And from a reader's standpoint, before any of Kages had shown what they could do. It seems like it would take a major leap to believe that he could match anyone but Mei without some sort of unique trick or something.

    2) Not only Bloodline Limits and secret techniques, but his arsenal should have also lacked techniques from two of the elemental natures, since using more then three doesn't seem possible. Not to mention we haven't seen very many powerful regular Konoha techniques.

    3) Not sure you can blame stamina or speed on old age. Both Onoki and Chiyo are old, and they had no trouble fighting younger opponents equally, apart from Onoki's "back problems". I suppose you could even point to Danzo too, though he had Hashirama's Dna so that's not a pure example.

    4) Where was it implied he had a ton of chakra when younger? I don't recall that part. But I doubt he used multiple Shadow Clones, that seems "unique" to Naruto. None of the other users have ever displayed more then one, even Jiraiya. Mainly because it doesn't seem all that tactical, throwing away a large portion of chakra in a glass cannon. A single hit would mean the lost of a 10th of his chakra, probably a far bigger waste then merely attacking and defending would have cost.

    5) Not sure if that means much at this point, if we presume that Hashirama really did rely as much upon his Mokuton abilities as it seems. Then again, Madara is still a powerhouse beyong his Sharingan, so the same would probably be true for Hashirama too.

    6) As long as he could keep them in place, he could kill them with the Shinigami technique.

  7. #1327
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    3) His databook stats indicate him having 5's in Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, Taijutsu. This goes with the God of Shinobi thing. His speed and stamina were lower than great, we can chalk this up to old age.
    That's not necessarily the case. These stats with 5 are kinda of what you would expect from someone known as "the professor", right? On the other hand, I don't imagine that a young Hiruzen could break rocks with his bare hands, thus he doesn't have 5 in strength.

    A similar argument has been used for Itachi, who would have a low stamina because of his disease. But Kimimaro was in a similar situation and had great stamina, so I think old age or disease somehow don't affect the stats. If anything, Hiruzen stats are greater now than during his youth, even if his performance in battle decreased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    4) His ANBU body guards said in his younger age he would use multiple Shadow Clones in battle regularly. We know that when he was younger he had a hell of a lot of chakra, probably as much if not more than Jiraiya.
    It's true that for a regular ninja it's dangerous to use Kage Bushin, but that doesn't mean Hiruzen chakra was greater than most of the Kages, who of course also have a great chakra. A has a superhuman level of chakra, but he doesn't spam Kage Bushin, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

  8. #1328
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Does Raikage know kage bunshin, though?

    And Kimimaro said he was given strength from his willpower, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to move at all.
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Oonoki used rock bunshin. And he made about... 4 of them I think. But they were all off-paneled against Madara. He still had chakra to nuke a forest with a Kamehameha later too.

  10. #1330
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Agreed. That was my favorite part of the game, that fight was brilliantly done. The ending was good too. Pretty cool how they went as far as Naruto stealing the Kyuubi's chakra... or close to it.......... I think.

    The opponents aggravated me though. <_< the way they kept on hitting without stopping, and I kept running out of substitution jutsu. <___<
    yeah, i got that game the first day that came out and (i paid 65 dollars after taxes) and i was dissapointed because besides the story play mode and the anime story, it wasn't that great as naruto shippuden storm 1,2..

  11. #1331
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    1) True, but he was hailed all the way back then, when Hashirama's power was doubted and considered a fairy tale. And from a reader's standpoint, before any of Kages had shown what they could do. It seems like it would take a major leap to believe that he could match anyone but Mei without some sort of unique trick or something.

    2) Not only Bloodline Limits and secret techniques, but his arsenal should have also lacked techniques from two of the elemental natures, since using more then three doesn't seem possible. Not to mention we haven't seen very many powerful regular Konoha techniques.

    3) Not sure you can blame stamina or speed on old age. Both Onoki and Chiyo are old, and they had no trouble fighting younger opponents equally, apart from Onoki's "back problems". I suppose you could even point to Danzo too, though he had Hashirama's Dna so that's not a pure example.

    4) Where was it implied he had a ton of chakra when younger? I don't recall that part. But I doubt he used multiple Shadow Clones, that seems "unique" to Naruto. None of the other users have ever displayed more then one, even Jiraiya. Mainly because it doesn't seem all that tactical, throwing away a large portion of chakra in a glass cannon. A single hit would mean the lost of a 10th of his chakra, probably a far bigger waste then merely attacking and defending would have cost.

    5) Not sure if that means much at this point, if we presume that Hashirama really did rely as much upon his Mokuton abilities as it seems. Then again, Madara is still a powerhouse beyong his Sharingan, so the same would probably be true for Hashirama too.

    6) As long as he could keep them in place, he could kill them with the Shinigami technique.
    1) We have to speculate at this point because Kishi ruined his manga. Sarturobi was able to fight on square footing with the Kyuubi for crying out loud without letting in invade the village. That alone should tell us how powerful he was. Kishi simply has to show us in actual combat.

    2) True, I'm guessing his third element is either suiton (most common) or futon (his son has it).

    3) Chiyo fought with puppets, her own speed was never something she had to use. And Oonoki can FLY. We've never actually seen his actual foot speed. And you already pointed out why Danzou was faster, but even he needed Izanagi to not die a million times. His stamina was a direct result of his old age, his ANBU even said so. And speed is surely affected by age, that only makes sense, even for ninja. The only "old ninja" who was affected by speed was Kakazu because he was essentially a giant mass of tentacles thanks to a forbidden technique.

    4) It is implied that he a lot of chakra due to the fact his ANBU stated he would use multiple Shadow clones in battle regularly. Read into the ANBU comments and you can see that Sarturobi was a ghost of what he used to be in his old age.

    ---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    That's not necessarily the case. These stats with 5 are kinda of what you would expect from someone known as "the professor", right? On the other hand, I don't imagine that a young Hiruzen could break rocks with his bare hands, thus he doesn't have 5 in strength.

    A similar argument has been used for Itachi, who would have a low stamina because of his disease. But Kimimaro was in a similar situation and had great stamina, so I think old age or disease somehow don't affect the stats. If anything, Hiruzen stats are greater now than during his youth, even if his performance in battle decreased.


    It's true that for a regular ninja it's dangerous to use Kage Bushin, but that doesn't mean Hiruzen chakra was greater than most of the Kages, who of course also have a great chakra. A has a superhuman level of chakra, but he doesn't spam Kage Bushin, right?
    Kimimaro is a bad example because of two reasons. 1) His kekkai genkai actually gave him regenerative abilities. He could regrow bones and skin. AND he had the cursed seal. He pushed himself to his limit and died because of his disease just like Itachi. It just so happens he was probably a powerhouse of stamina before his disease, and thus even with it, he had a lot.

    Itachi on the other hand, has average stamina, and his disease WHICH MADE HIM VOMIT BLOOD. It blows my mind that people don't think that had an adverse affect on his stamina, any debilitating disease drains you physically this a fact about the human body that can't be ignored.

    As for Kage Bushin, if it isn't a dangerous technique was does no one use it? Itachi and Kakashi would use it sparingly, as did Jiraiya. Naruto is the only ninja to abuse it, and his Taju Kage Bushin is forbidden because it would kill normal people. The fact that Sarturobi would use it multiple times in battle shows us he had a large amount of chakra.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  12. #1332
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    We have to speculate at this point because Kishi ruined his manga. Sarturobi was able to fight on square footing with the Kyuubi for crying out loud without letting in invade the village. That alone should tell us how powerful he was. Kishi simply has to show us in actual combat.
    He fought the Kyuubi alongside a force of Konoha ninjas. That's much different then being like the Kazekage or Raikage defeating a Bijuu on their own. On the other hand, they did have unique abilities to assist themselves, so I suppose that could take away somewhat from the feat itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Chiyo fought with puppets, her own speed was never something she had to use. And Oonoki can FLY. We've never actually seen his actual foot speed. And you already pointed out why Danzou was faster, but even he needed Izanagi to not die a million times. His stamina was a direct result of his old age, his ANBU even said so. And speed is surely affected by age, that only makes sense, even for ninja. The only "old ninja" who was affected by speed was Kakazu because he was essentially a giant mass of tentacles thanks to a forbidden technique.
    Chiyo physically dodged Sasori's attacks several times and while that's true about Onoki flying, that's only half the issue. The other half is still both of these elderly ninjas having the stamina to fight younger and stronger opponents. Chiyo lasted longer chakra-wise then Sakura did in their battle, and Onoki basically fought against three different opponents before he began to run out of chakra. So stamina hardly seems an issue for them. And while possessing Hashirama's Dna would enhance Danzo's stamina, doubt it would do the same for his speed. Yamato is hardly top tier despite possessing the same enhancement. His Anbu also considered that a Kage-levl battle, and it barely matched up to the Sannin's fight, much less current Kage-levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    It is implied that he a lot of chakra due to the fact his ANBU stated he would use multiple Shadow clones in battle regularly. Read into the ANBU comments and you can see that Sarturobi was a ghost of what he used to be in his old age.
    But using Shadow Clones wouldn't require alot of chakra, as we've seen from the likes of Itachi and Kakashi. Even Konohamaru threw out multiple clones. It's only with the Multiple Shadow Clones technique that would require a huge chakra pool. The mechanics behind it pretty much make it suitable for people with any amount of chakra.

  13. #1333
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    It blows my mind that people don't think that had an adverse affect on his stamina, any debilitating disease drains you physically this a fact about the human body that can't be ignored.
    It is not like it doesn't affect his stamina, but that the stats won't reflect it.

    It is like if you cut both of Raikage arms and legs. His stats would still show him with 5 in strength and speed, despite he being unable to move or attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

  14. #1334
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Does Raikage know kage bunshin, though?

    And Kimimaro said he was given strength from his willpower, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to move at all.
    I always thought that KB was a Konoha jutsu, seeing as only Konoha ninjas know it while others are stuck with elemental bushins ( Water Clone, Rock Clone, Sand Clone ).
    It was, after all, on Konoha's forbidden scroll.

    ---------- Post added at 06:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    But using Shadow Clones wouldn't require alot of chakra, as we've seen from the likes of Itachi and Kakashi. Even Konohamaru threw out multiple clones. It's only with the Multiple Shadow Clones technique that would require a huge chakra pool. The mechanics behind it pretty much make it suitable for people with any amount of chakra.
    Yes and no.
    KB effectively splits one's chakra, meaning one clone would mean that 50% of the user's chakra would go puff.
    Naruto ( and well Madara now ) is the only one who can spam it because:
    -he has enough chakra to sustain himself even when its divided by 100
    -he can regenerate chakra much faster thanks to the Kyuubi and his own Uzumaki heritage

    Also it seems that KB are pretty difficult to mantain for prolonged amounts of time, as Kakashi noted, either because the body consumes chakra too fast or because the user needs to control them/supply them with something.

  15. #1335
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Naruto should just have spend half a day after he gained Rikudou/Full Jinchuriki mode to train every possible jutsu available to him, but let's not use logic. :P
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