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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Nagato had a god complex towards the entire world, but not really towards Jiraiya, who he did show some acknowledgement against. And I would think the belief that one has the right to decide the fate of the entire world should exist within a dreamworld all due to their own personal feelings would fall under a god complex too.
Where is it said that Obito feels he has the right to do what he's doing? Nagato truly believed himself to be a divine figure. He felt himself to be above Jiraiya because of this. Believing yourself to be above someone due to a delusion of divinity is different than just feeling apathy toward that person. Plus, my earlier point still stands.
---------- Post added December 09, 2012 at 11:34 AM ---------- Previous post was December 08, 2012 at 11:56 PM ----------
Last edited by KiSwordsman; December 09, 2012 at 03:08 PM.
Nothing to do with that at all.
Insane people don't tend to think stuff that'd get them to unlock Mangekyo though. I still wanna know how Obito was able to see through Kakashi's Sharingan when that shouldn't be possible. At least Gaara's chakra was likely connected to his sand eye.
I can't really correlate between Nagato and Obito's cases. Nagato didn't hold a grudge against Jiraiya at all. He was initially sharing the same goal with Jiraiya and deviated from that path with what he refers to as his traumatic experiences. He wasn't an idiot to call himself divine. After what we went through, he casted aside his former master's ideals and took his own path.
Obito also acts upon a certain event, but his higher goal refers to nothing but Rin's sake. For me, because of this, he's simply trash. He didn't go through a tenth of what Nagato did and now seeks the end of the world, while all Nagato after was a cycle of chaos to establish his own interpretation of piece to replace the unending battles.
Last edited by Hakuteiken; December 09, 2012 at 05:11 PM.
Exactly, which in all honesty is the sad part about it. He believed himself divine because of "his" eyes. but in truth, he was just a tool to be used by others. But I digress. He believed those experiences made him turn from a person into a God. He still looked down on Jiraiya because, in his words, "Jiraiya was still just a person." That's not apathy, that's believing yourself above someone. Even if Jiraiya got acknowledgment, Nagato still believed himself above Jiraiya. maybe not around the time of his own death, but definitely around the time that he fought him.
I guess it was a way to add to Obito's trauma? Experience Kakashi stabbing Rin and her reaction firsthand, Kishi probably wanted to keep it to Obito's point of view and showing it in Kakashi's view would have broken that. If that makes sense.
NOt for Rin's sake in my opinion, but for his. Nagato's goals were much better because he genuinely wanted to establish peace, while Obito just wants to put the world under illusion so he can have Rin back and live the way he wanted to live.
It's not too different, I would say. All they were after was attaining the peace. Though, in a way, Nagato came to believe in Jiraiya's philosophies in time because he had Yahiko on his side. When he lost him, he couldn't bring himself to believe in those ideals again.
Ah, right. That's what I was trying to imply.
Didn't he mention that kind of grudge when they reunited, though? He implied he resented Jiraiya for leaving them.
I guess Nagato went crazy, but at least he gained his sanity and rationale back. Can't say the same for Tobi. <_< I think Yahiko's death was just the final straw in the hay that led to Nagato thinkin destruction leads to peace. Or, he realized he couldn't protect the ones he loved, leading him to what he became.
For a person, yes. But normally the regret would connect to their later actions. Which is why Obito giving up his Sharingan is questionable, since as far as it was shown, Obito wasn't aware that it was required to use Chidori, and thus he wouldn't have connected the two. Kakashi saved Obito's life twice, so that's moot in turn.
It wasn't the grudge because of what happened, but because he thought Jiraiya abandoned them? I'm not sure if Nagato ever says this, or if it's implied. I do know he mentioned how life got hard/worse after Jiraiya left, and that he knew nothing of it.
"As a God, what I say, what I think, becomes the law of God."
Obito is not doing this because he thinks it's an "act of God, (him)." He's doing this because he thinks it's the only thing that can be done, and he'll, or more accurately, Madara will have the power to do it. if I haven't made it clear enough already, I in no way condone what he's doing, the means at which he's going by it, and the end results.
In regard to the bolded part, The regret does connect to Kakashi's later actions, him killing Rin. You phrase it as though Obito had to know that his Sharingan specifically had a hand in Rin's death for him to feel regret. One can still feel regret without knowing exactly how much one's own actions affect certain events. I'm not really sure how it's moot considering he sacrificed himself.
Oh, I'm aware of that, I just find it hilarious. You implied that he showed apathy toward Jiraiya overall. How was his overall attitude not one of superiority as well? He believed He knew better than Jiraiya because his experiences turned him into a "God." No doubt eating up the B.S Obito fed to him. I don't understand how that equates to indifference.Quote:
Also we are talking about a character who went from this to this in two chapters I'm almost positive that not much time passed within the manga itself, And a character that went from mortal to God in the span of a number of years with a sizable amount of manipulation strung in there.
Even if Jiraiya and Nagato's relationship had more substance, due to the amount of time they spent together. They didn't even have close to similar events happen within their relationship.
Last edited by KiSwordsman; December 10, 2012 at 04:38 AM.