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Thread: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

  1. #1516
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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    If we are going to talk about Itachi without his Sharigan and what skills he has, you should at least let him be healthy.

    Part of the reason he was dying was from using Sussano apparently, and he also wouldn't be blind if didn't have his Sharigan which has to be taken into account.
    I assumed that the original statement was referring to Itachi in the condition he was, prior to his death (disregarding the coughing of blood etc). It is possible that a perfectly healthy Itachi would defeat Kakashi if he really is as strong as he showed in his Edo Tensei form, unless he gives Kakashi an opportunity to use Kamui. It's rather ridiculous how many times Kakashi has had the opportunity to kill his enemy but Kishimoto ignoring to use it. He would've defeated Deva Path and Sasuke, for example. If he was so determined to kill Sasuke as he claimed, he should've just used Kamui and gotten it over with.

    He'd probably be stronger than Madara, had he acquired EMS as well.
    Last edited by Azuma; May 21, 2013 at 04:32 PM.

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    It's not like Kakashi went all out himself, for the record. Itachi was standing still pretty much the whole fight. Kakashi could've ended him with a Kamui. That's what bugs me about Kishimoto and Kamui.
    Can you please link me where Itachi was standing still the whole fight?
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Since we're not talking about Sasuke anymore, I don't care whether Itachi has feats or not. He doesn't need to show feats considering he's been praised throughout the manga no matter who or what. Deidara, Orochimaru, academy teacher... Itachi's been noted for his intellect and talent more than anything, like how Minato was noted for those and for how hard he worked. Every fight Itachi's been in, he's never shown more htan 90% at best, and against Sasuke he was nearly blind and pretty sick, when we saw him at his most serious.

    Itachi became a genin before he got Sharingan, jounin and ANBU before he got Mangekyo, and chosen to kill his own clan and joined hte Akatsuki before he was even 15. Feats like that are extremely rare to match, Kakashi being the only one who's come closest. Even Danzou and Hiruzen spoke of Itachi with respect.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Itachi was said to be as wise as a Kage at the age of 5. I don't think anyone's been given a bigger compliment than that in the whole manga. Speaks for his wisdom but also again for his vast intelligence.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    Can you please link me where Itachi was standing still the whole fight?
    There are too many pages to choose from. Just look through the battle, Itachi was standing at the same spot throughout.

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    Re: How strong is Sasuke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuma View Post
    There are too many pages to choose from. Just look through the battle, Itachi was standing at the same spot throughout.
    Okay, I checked it and this is what I got:

    The first thing you should know is that Kakashi wasn't able to instantly activate his MS.

    [Ch. 275 - ratfox]
    Spoiler show


    [Ch. 275 - Nihongaeri]
    Spoiler show


    This means that Kakashi couldn't actively take part in a fight as long as he concentrates on activating MS.

    Now, let's head to the actual fight against Itachi. When they confronted Itachi, Kakashi was busy warning the others about Itachi's ocular Genjutsus, explained how to fight Itachi and how dangerous Tsukuyomi is. Imo, Kakashi did the right thing otherwise he would lose his teammates very fast. Since Kakashi himself stated that he can't handle Itachi alone, losing teammates was not an option for Kakashi.

    Before the real fight started, Kakashi asked Itachi how far his eyes have deteriorated. He actually told Itachi that he has MS between the lines. We can see that Kakashi's MS was not activated at this point, therefore an instant Kamui wasn't possible.

    The fight starts with Itachi using his finger Genjutsu on Naruto. The entire time Naruto was trapped in the Genjutsu (which was shown in the manga), Itachi and Kakashi were fighting off-panel. You can see that at the bottom panel here, when Chiyo and Sakura cancelled the Genjutsu out of Naruto. Itachi didn't give Kakashi an opportunity to concentrate and activate MS. After that Itachi directly used the Katon Jutsu and Kakashi executed his "plan".

    His plan with the Clone as a bait worked perfectly:
    • Itachi was not only standing still at this point, but he was also unable to move
    • Itachi was unable to use Jutsus, which require handseals
    • Itachi's Genjutsu had no effect on Kakashi, since it was a Clone, lol

    Imo, this was the only time where Kakashi really had the chance to use Kamui if his MS was active, which was not the case btw. But even if he had his MS active, Naruto being the one with the "finishing move" was still more convenient. Kakashi already felt that something was fishy about Itachi (#1 - #2). Better let someone with unlimited chakra finish the "fishy" enemy instead of using a Jutsu, where you end up with huge chakra loss and strain, which is quite disadvantageous when you fail.

    Kakashi did pretty good in my view.
    Last edited by syx; May 22, 2013 at 02:05 PM.
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    The thing with Itachi is that he always held back. He never went full power and always fought like he has one leg. I don't think that his speed can be compared to Kakashi's, specially if he's as fast as are his fingers when he's doing seals. And we all know Kakashi couldn't follow that even with his Sharingan.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Itachi's speed isn't comparable to Kakashi's, as Itachi is much faster. Wounded and sick, he still was about even with Sasuke, who's comparable to Kirabi and base Ee, and Itachi had no problem keeping up with either cloaked Naruto or Kirabi later on. He's probably the second fastest non-S/T ninja in the series.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Itachi's speed isn't comparable to Kakashi's, as Itachi is much faster. Wounded and sick, he still was about even with Sasuke, who's comparable to Kirabi and base Ee, and Itachi had no problem keeping up with either cloaked Naruto or Kirabi later on. He's probably the second fastest non-S/T ninja in the series.
    Saying that itachi had no problem keeping up with cloaked naruto is kinda nonsense and baseless. Whereas you yourself have seen what's exactly naruto has been doing. He's taking to itachi where he was just defending himself. Have you seen naruto getting serious on that fight? No.

    And again, sasuke's speed isn't comparable either to bee and raikage, you should stop this delusion pal, because sasuke himself even admitted that both of then are freaking fast and his sharingan can't follow not unless they're attacking in linear attack. That's already a fact.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Itachi didn't have no trouble. And you seem to be ignoring that Itachi was defending himself too, against two people. The whole "not serious" thing can be applied to Itachi too.

    You should stop the "delusions". The series outright states to dodge someone faster, even with the Sharingan, you require comparable speed. Not just that, but we were even told by Tsunade that being able to keep up with base Ee was a considerable feat. And at no point did Sasuke say such a thing. What he said was simply that he had no trouble following with his Sharingan. Check your "facts".

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    No. He was being controlled by kabuto. So "his action" is indeed serious, as long as ET is concerned.

    No. There's a manga scan that shows sasuke admitted that bee is freaking fast even for his sharingan. But he did stated that he can follow bee's movement if it's a linear attack/movement.

    No. Tsunade never said the word "base" Raikage, But it's actually raikage's speed on his raiton cloak. So you theory isn't applicable to sasuke. And no, sasuke said that he had no trouble following a linear attack/movement with his sharingan.

    So i think i don't need to check my "facts", because that's actually the manga facts.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    [Ch. 545 - aegon-rokudo]

    Shikaku: "Yes! Plus madara said that yours bijuu are necessary for his “eye moon plan”… In other words you are probably his objective"
    Naruto: "I already know that! he will not capture me so easily!"
    ------------------------------
    Shikaku: "Leaving kabuto aside, it seems that madara is immortal. Plus he has in his ranks moving plants made from the cells of the first hokage and zombies coming from the other world that can be stopped only by using sealing techniques. It is like they are an immortal army, be careful of that too!"
    Naruto: "that’s the only good news. Now I know that I don’t have to hold back!"

    So much for Naruto not being serious. Shikaku warned him twice and Naruto stated that he won't get captured so easily and that he won't have to hold back.

    Not to mention that Naruto didn't just try to avoid a fight. No, he literally charged at Itachi too and tried to hit and kick him and Itachi blocked both attacks. Furthermore Itachi avoided being hit by Bee (one of the fastest ninjas), who tried to attack him behind his back.
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    I'm actually talking about his fight against itachi. Naruto is just defending himself to itachi while they're talking. I've never seen naruto use his extended arms to hit itachi nor he use his rasengan variations / FRS/Mini frs. And also, he never used his cloak speed or any of his speed to atleast punch itachi to his face.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Itachi didn't have no trouble. And you seem to be ignoring that Itachi was defending himself too, against two people. The whole "not serious" thing can be applied to Itachi too.

    You should stop the "delusions". The series outright states to dodge someone faster, even with the Sharingan, you require comparable speed. Not just that, but we were even told by Tsunade that being able to keep up with base Ee was a considerable feat. And at no point did Sasuke say such a thing. What he said was simply that he had no trouble following with his Sharingan. Check your "facts".
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v45/c413/7.html

    That scan is more than enough to say that sasuke's speed isn't comparable to Bee at all.

    He even asked karin to sense bee through his chakra and let him know. That's so much for being able to keep up.

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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    [Ch. 545 - aegon-rokudo]

    Shikaku: "Yes! Plus madara said that yours bijuu are necessary for his “eye moon plan”… In other words you are probably his objective"
    Naruto: "I already know that! he will not capture me so easily!"
    ------------------------------
    Shikaku: "Leaving kabuto aside, it seems that madara is immortal. Plus he has in his ranks moving plants made from the cells of the first hokage and zombies coming from the other world that can be stopped only by using sealing techniques. It is like they are an immortal army, be careful of that too!"
    Naruto: "that’s the only good news. Now I know that I don’t have to hold back!"

    So much for Naruto not being serious. Shikaku warned him twice and Naruto stated that he won't get captured so easily and that he won't have to hold back.

    Not to mention that Naruto didn't just try to avoid a fight. No, he literally charged at Itachi too and tried to hit and kick him and Itachi blocked both attacks. Furthermore Itachi avoided being hit by Bee (one of the fastest ninjas), who tried to attack him behind his back.
    One can still argue that Naruto wasn't going all out. He was defending himself for the most part, doing enough to not get his ass kicked while talkign to Itachi.

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