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Translations: Gintama 506 (2)
Had one isn't " having infos " about it. If that doesn't mean he have one in his pocket then what ?Quote:
We have enough evidence in the manga, testimonies made by characters that literally saw Roger in Luffy. Shanks, Rayleigh, WB... If you still refuse to admit that Luffy is nearly a copy of Roger, then what can I do for you ?Quote:
Again, I'll explain from zero : Manga is the source right ? We can assume (for me, on matters like these, it is 100% because it is heavily implied by Oda), if I say for example Roger believe in fate. And I give examples of Shanks, Rayleigh, WB, even Gan Fall. In matters like these, yes we can clearly say that Roger believe in fate, that he thinks the same way Luffy did.
Things we wait for Oda to confirm : Location of a weapon, name of a weapon, island, the character's ability... Did you same say it is 100% that BM will have this and that power ? No, there's no real clues nor anything to deduce that.
Then I'll say it again, Oda said that Roger knew about the real history, and knew about the 3 weapons. Good. Did he ever implied one being in Raftel ? Not even once. He put an emphasis on the real history (or the Rio Poneglyph) being in Raftel through two testimonies : Robin's one back in Skypiea where she deduced that you need to gather to Tablets of truths to know the true history, and that the tablet of clues are the one who shows the location of those tablet of truths along with the weapons, and obviously Roger recovered those tablets of truths, and it is 100% certain that is in Raftel. He did not put a single emphasis on any weapon being there.
What you is saying is that there is a weapon in Raftel, okay. You back up your entine theory by just a single line said in that chapter, disregarding other things such : Roger's personality, what was said by Robin & Rayleigh. That single line, who is by the way quite clear, says " Roger you know the location of the weapon " period. Not " Roger you HAVE the weapon ".
Your theories that you make are based on lines, misreading (aka the second Poneglyph in each island), not logical at all (in the case of BM strenght). Making theories is nice, but making theories while taking into account : Consistency in the story, past events, thinking nearly like Oda does, is even better.
Moderator message by: UrielI like reading your arguments. But I feel like I should warn here and mark that there is a borderline of respect to each other you're crossing. I understand having differences but please let's not use ad hominem speeches.
The one which believes in fate is Blackbeard. Luffy believes in dreams, so if Luffy acts like Roger, well, then I believe that Roger believed in dreams too.
I tried to explain my point, but I see that you don’t make any efforts to understand it. You just disqualify everybody, so I won’t discuss with you anymore because there is no point to debate with someone who isn’t open to listening.
I’ll reinter my point and say that Gol D. Roger knew about one of the Ancient Weapons by the time of the Edd War and where it was, and I believe that weapon is Uranus. I believe too that he left this weapon or information about this weapon in Raftel.
I say this based on the information that he couldn’t have access to Poseidon because Shirahoshi wasn’t even born by the time of the Edd War and I don’t believe that access to the blueprints of Pluton. I predict that the weapon/information about that weapon was left in Raftel, where we will discover about the Void Century, one of the mysteries in the One Piece that is directly related to the Ancient Weapons.
Here, have fun
I was never really arguing about this, but let me tell you what was my problem with your original post.Quote:
Had one, isn't HAVING INFOS or KNOWING LOCATIONS. Strangely enough, you say that I disregard everything you say. Maybe if you clarify what you say first, we wouldn't have gotten here in the first place.Quote:
As far as the weapons, I really do believe the last ancient weapon is a devil fruit. Pluto is a warship of sorts, something technologically advanced which could bring about a decent bit of destruction. Poseidon is a mermaid, a normal person with the incredible ability which by extension gave her control of the oceans. Uranus was a sky or thunder god. The last weapon being a fruit would imply that each weapon is something in itself and unrelated to each other, that kinda makes sense to me.
Another thing I find strange about the whole thing is that pluto and uranus are based on roman names and poseidon is based on a greek name. More interestingly, her family is the neptune family which would make more sense alongside pluto and uranus. In this particular regard I wonder if the ability to control sea kings is in itself genetic and the actual ancient weapon is not in itself shirahoshi but whoever carries the neptune's blood as any of their descendants could potentially awaken the capacity to talk to sea kings.
This is something I wrote a while back I wanted to do more work with it but I've been caught up with school so it won't be for about another 2 months until I can put some time in on it. You can read the entirety here: http://dontlearnthis.blogspot.com/
To summarize my claim: there is a direct link it seems between mythology and the ancient weapons. I also like to keep in mind that Oda thought this story was going to be over a long time ago, so many of the ideas can be found hidden throughout the story.
I don't know if anyone had said this before, but the Weapons doesn't have to be actually weapons, like Poseidon being a person. This leads me to this theory.- Uranus isn't a weapon like Pluton or an ability like Poseidon. Uranus is the story of truth which is placed on the different Poneglyphs around the globe. It was meant for Poseidon to use her ability and Noah to carry the message around during the Void Century. (or something like that!)We also know that Pluton is a weapon that can destroy islands.
This means, that the WG must have had Pluton during the Void Century in order to destroy the Ancient Kingdom and become the WG they are today.
That's not a bad theory, actually. Maybe Uranos (The name) is somewhat a guidance on how Poneglyphs must be read.
cant help but believe that dragons (presumable) sky/weather related DF might be so overpowered and empirically badass that its what people referred to as an ancient weapon. least fits with the sky motif =D
Personal Prediction on Ancient Weapons:
* The Straw Hats will discover and gather all the Ancient Weapons in one place.
* Two of the Ancient Weapons are stolen, one by the Blackbeard Pirates, and one by the World Government.
* Luffy will challenge them both with his Ancint weapon, which erupts into a giant war in which the fate of the One Piece universe hangs.
This is my Initial, well not baseless prediction....
First, is that the three ancient weapons are referring to the powers of the Greek/Roman Gods.
Poseidon = God of the seas, which is shirahoshi.
Zeus = God of the skies, which is Monkey D Dragon.
The third is where it gets confusing...
since the pirates have 'Poseidon' and the Revolutionaries have 'Zeus', I believe that the marines too have they're own... (so since there is no underworld in OP they can't have hades)
I think what they have is Hephaestus = the god of fire and metallurgy
I can only think of two possibilities for Hephaestus on the side of the marines... it is either Dr. Vegapunk or Admiral Akainu.
Dr. Vegapunk as we all know has been gifted with an unusual skill of craftsmanship.
while Admiral Akainu has the power of the fire specifically of volcanoes (and being called red DOG which is Hephaestus symbol)
bare with me for my last prediction that akainu and vegapunk are the same person.
Read this firs please
For me the interesting part here is that not all names correspond to quite the same thing.
Poseidon is the actual greek god.
Pluton is a roman god (based on the greek hades)
Uranus is a precursor to the titans who were precursors to the Olympians in greek mythology.
Another, perhaps actually important point, is that neptune's family is indeed called nepture which is the roman equivalent to poseidon.
Another interesting aspect is where exactly each weapon has been first mentioned. Poseidon was made known to us in sky island. Uranus was made known to us in fishman island. Isn't it interesting that the power to control the seas was mentioned exactly where it would not have been useful? If uranus actually allows control over the sky in some form then what we have is that it was first mentioned by neptune at the exact point where such a thing would be almost worthless, at the button of the sea. Finally, pluton, god of the underworld was first mentioned in alabasta, a little island which was in no way the underworld. Basically every one of these weapons has been introduced exactly where it should have no business being due to what the name references.
Now, if uranus does have control over the sky in some form (as poseidon aka shirahoshi is basically a whim away from being queen bitch of the ocean with her island sized sea monkeys) then actually we do have a shred of a clue of what it might be.
Weather balls! Little convenient things made in the sky to conveniently control it. What if the actual weather balls were based on an earlier perhaps more advanced (bitchier, way bitchier) version of it? Basically the scientist would have reversed engineered from ancient texts or whatnot a compact version of the original one. Of course, I am not saying nami will hold that amount of power nor that would be relevant to what I am saying either. we already saw the sky old men doing something like unleashing a storm over a section of SA. Imagine a bigger meaner version of it... a tornado or strong enough storm could evaporate a nation rather fast. Even eredas made a reference to that being an actual possibility if they fell to the wrong hands (and of course they had to end up in the hands of pirates who are a primary target of the world government).
---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------
And yes, you heard it first here.
Dragon already have power similar to what you described and in anime OVA in conversation between Shiki and Roger former refered to to weapon Roger had,found just before storm started wich helped Roger defeat Shiki... So i think that weapon might bee in RA hands or even dragon
Last edited by Zoronoa Roro; May 08, 2012 at 12:51 AM.
If the revolutionaries had an ancient weapon then there would be not need for them to have a war against the world government. If the weapons do control forces of nature then they would pretty much win wars by default, the weapons at large are supposed to be that powerful at least. I think the shiki and dragon events are simply fate, which seems to play a huge role in this manga.