Tell me, would it be logical for Luffy to beat someone who is in the level of the top dogs right now at this moment, just as soon that the second part of OP began ? Would it have been logical for instance, if Crocodile is strong as Mihawk, and be defeated in the first part of the GL Saga ? Would be there any evolution for the character, both in strenght and character ? If Luffy has already become top tier, just how can you imagine the story will evolve ? Just how ?Quote:
Would it have been logical for Ichigo in Bleach to defeat someone in the beginning who is a Captain ? Would it have been logical for Naruto to defeat someone who is as strong as a Kage in the very beginning ?
It is IMPOSSIBLE and UNTHINKABLE that BM is as strong individually like the top dogs. It wouldn't make no sense at all. Just like someone said that Zoro is stronger than Mihawk already, I mean wtf ? If Oda didn't rush so soon and made Luffy face BM, I wouldn't doubt BM strenght. Then again I understand him, Luffy have been trained by Rayleigh for 2 whole years, he became strong to a level where it would take him years normally to reach, if Oda made Luffy fight any shitty pirate there, it wouldn't be spectacular, and then again, if Luffy defeats someone who is a top dog (Top dogs for me : Shanks, and the Admirals so far, BB is a wild card for now, Kaidou no data on him), what would be the point ? Will there be any continuity, any progress for Luffy and his crew ? No.
For the sake of the consistency of the plot, BM is weaker than top dogs, and will be defeated in 2012 as there's no point in dragging this matter for a lot of time.
And I believe that this is the way things will turn out because this is Oda, he isn't Kubo who pulls random power ups from his ass (Ichigo being ten time weaker than Ulquiorra but he defeated him thanks to his hollow) or Mashima (Fairy Tail) (rawr my friends are my powaaah). If you'd like to see Luffy somehow have a power up from nowhere and beat Shanks, Akainu, Aokiji, then I'm sorry to inform you, but Oda wouldn't pull such a ridiculous crap on us.
I'll say it clearly and for once : For me, BM is weaker than most of the top dogs, but then again Luffy will definitely have a hard time against her.
It is the same against Crocodile, nearly the same pattern will repeat itself.
About the talking candy... Just how a candy would call a candy eater " Mama " and also be enjoyed that he will eat " Candies from FI " ? Does it make sense to you ? I'm sure as hell that it doesn't.
I like to think that it's something related to her but not the DF itself.
Until we don't see her power the words you're using there are just pretentious.
That battle showed us more the gap between Luffy and top dogs.
And luck is an ability one may say, even BB is lucky too.
People say that it was luck that enabled Luffy to defeat Crocodile, it may be true to a certain extent, but in the end, he won. If there's a rematch between old Luffy, and Crocodile, he'd defeat him anytime since he knows the trick. In the first, it is until he got stabbed that he realized that, in the second fight, Luffy was mostly fooling around (Mizu Luffy), it is until the third fight that we saw a real fight that Luffy won fair and square. But imagine with me if Crocodile was at the level of an Admiral, and Luffy defeated that early, just how the rest of his adventure would have went ? Would he have problems in EL, against Moria, against Kuma, in Marineford too ? No at all. Fights would be boring, everything will become boring as there will be no challenges or whatsoever.
But you wouldn't say Crocodile was in the same level of Luffy or that admirals were one more weak than the others, right? Because you just can't measure that of that situation. OP is usually the best one when it comes to screw up power levels. That's why I think that when you say that it's impossible for BM to be in the same league of the other Yonkous it's pretentious as hell because you don't know the circumstances, her ability and how Luffy will confront her.
Ok, if 2012 end and Big Mom won't be defeated, you lose your point. We don't know almost anything about her, if she is a "top dog", weaker than Luffy, etc. When Luffy fought against Lucci, Crocodile, Enel and Moria we had to wait for two years to see Luffy won each one of them. I don’t see it coming in 2012.
---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------
I have already edited my post, thank you.
Last edited by Sakazuki; January 04, 2012 at 09:21 AM.
Ok then, suppose for a second that he will not face BM and will turn to be buddies (then why did Oda bother to make Luffy declare war on her, but nvm that), who would he face ? Pirates like Squardo ? No way, obviously too weak for Luffy, Kaidou ? How is that gonna happen since he wasn't even introduced yet ? BB, nope too early, Shanks ? They wouldn't fight and it is too early if Oda ever intend to make them fight, Akainu... Kizaru ? Too early to face an admiral for sure.
Then give me a single character that would give Luffy trouble, but more than that, to make the balance shift again, we all know what Crocodile's defeat has caused. So who do you think would fill that part hmm ? I don't see anyone here besides BM for now.
Again, what kind of enemies will Luffy face ? Allied crews ? You think that a shitty pirate from NW can stand to Luffy atm ? We have all seen how " remarkable " they were in the war isn't it ? It even took 3 captains from the NW to take down a single Pacifista. You think that BM's allies will be stronger than WB's allies ? I doubt that...
Before the war, we have never seen top dogs fighting, we didn't have a single idea about that. Some people (even me at some point) believed that Admirals are only strong thanks to their Logia and anyone with Haki can kick their sorry asses. The war proved us wrong. Let's check what happenned : Aokiji & Kizaru & Akainu unscathed (I'm sorry, even after taking that hit from WB, Akainu was still okay and was pursuing Luffy and dealt with the WB pirates), Garp & Sengoku unscathed (considering those fives as the top dogs of the marines), let's take a look at the WB pirates : WB dead, Ace dead, Marco got his ass kicked, Jozu frozen, Curiel defeated by Akainu. It was painfully obvious to us the complete supremacy of the admirals, and were truly fit to be called " The greatest military power " of the WG. WB was sick, that's correct, but still, not managing to overcome Aokiji's haki when he tried to stab him, not managing to land a hit on Kizaru and Aokiji, and only hitting for once Akainu and not even being able to definitely knock him out.
We got a solid evidence about the power of the top dogs at the war, therefore we can absolutely say that Crocodile is weaker than Admirals and some Shichibukai, and thank god it was the case, or else Luffy wouldn't have gotten trashed that badly in the war. If Croco was as strong as an Admiral, and then Luffy in the war getting trashed, would it make sense ?
The war has showed us what top dogs are worth, and even Luffy with his current strenght still isn't there yet. Before we didn't have that occasion to measure that, but with the war as a reference, it is possible.
Last edited by Zehahaha; January 04, 2012 at 04:32 PM.
Big Mom could be in her 20% when fighting with a Luffy in his 100% and that could be enough for our favorite pirate to win the battle. And that doesn't make BM any less strong than the other Yonkous.
What makes you think that we have seen/heard about all the powerhouses in the New World? You may have missed this so I'll say it again - remember Shiki supposedly being an enemy in the New World but got turned into a movie instead?Quote:
I'll formulate what I'm saying here just to avoid more confusions : For me, BM is strong, but not as strong as top dogs. It won't be easy for Luffy to beat her, he'll have a lot of troubles, I don't expect a Crocodile scenario here, but more a Lucci scenario in this case.
Why do I say that BM is weaker (not in the sense that Shanks would pwn her) ? To give Luffy a room to improve. If he's already as strong as top dogs, I fail too see how he'll improve, how the fights will be entertaining, how the whole crew will actually improve.
Why do I think that BM will fight against Luffy ? Luffy has been trained by Rayleigh, he's certainly a powerhouse, and Luffy's power increased a lot thanks to Rayleigh teachings, Oda here has 2 choices : Either make him fight normal crews in the NW, and fights will be shorts and just like Hodi vs Luffy completely one sided, either Oda will put him into a predicament a make him face one the powerhouses in the NW to give some interesting fights and a real sight for Luffy's strenght, to make again Luffy the variable that will change the balance (the same things happened with Crocodile's defeat which caused a series of events that lead us to the war which was the final chapter of the first part of OP).
Again, Oda will obviously go for the second choice, especially after the last (declaring a war, and then becoming buddies right after would make 0 sense), and for the sake of plot, and for keeping the story consistent, BM won't be as strong as top tiers.
So far, about the silver medalists thing, it was a single line mentioned by Crocodile, no more. And I don't think that any prisoner from level 6 will defeat a Yonkou, as it wouldn't make sense to : They were never shown, we don't their names, nada. Why would Oda suddenly make a prisonner defeat a character that is being defied by the hero ? That would be an ass pull in the same level of Kubo's ass pulls.
I remember Shiki, I also remember him being kicked by a gear 2 Luffy. I remember also that he probably was fooling around for 20 goddamn years doing nothing but scheming, I'm sorry, but even Lucci was more impressive than that old guy.
As far as the level six guys I would disagree a bit. Those guys were deemed by the world government powerful enough to make a country disappear at the very least. Each and every person there was a powerhouse and dangerous enough for even iva to not even consider releasing them even though they released with no problem a bunch of guys from level 5 and 4. Perhaps they are not individually as strong as the yonko however I would argue that each pirate there is at least strong enough to be a threat to any yonko. That is not something a measly level 5 prisoner would do. Level six prisoners would be guys with actual power that the world government for whatever reason managed to capture, at least that is what I think oda meant to tell us that arc. IMO it would not be strange that a level 6 prisoner will actually be not only a major enemy during an arc but also give current luffy a run for his money.
I guess it depends. For a lone level 6 prisoner to kill big mom is unlikely to say the least but mostly because she has her entire crew behind her. Under an scenario where a prisoner manages to build a strong crew we have an entirely different scenario. I don't think it would be THAT weird that a prisoner there could actually match up to a yonko, it is just a matter of the circumstances being the right ones.
Big Mom not necessarily has to be defeated by a level 6 prisoner. Actually, it would be very interesting to see some of them joining her after their escape. If Luffy fight will fight her directly, so it would be good to see some really dangerous guys fighting with the others SHs.
Last edited by Sakazuki; January 06, 2012 at 08:23 AM.