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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Hey, ihr Eumels
I have just a few thoughts about the philosophical presuppositions of Gantz I want to share with you. My theory is, that Gantz draws heavily from the german philosopher Nietzsche. In chapter 55 you can see his name on the cover. What is the essence of his philosophy?
He mainly focuses on overcoming the crisis of man the "death of God" had caused.
There is no truth anymore, neither moral values, which are given by God. Objective truths are revealed as subjective assumptions. There are traps he warned humankind of: one the one hand of nihilism (the false assumption that there are no moral values anymore), represented by "Nishi" who displays socialdarwinistic attidtudes towards those around him.
On the other hand there is the despair of weaklings who can't deal with the death of God, represented by the pussy guy bitching around in self-pity in chapter 290. In the very chapter his attitude is confronted with the Kei's will to live. Kei is not denying that the world is devil's playground and "it hurts to live until the end" but despite that he choses to fight. He is the "Übermensch", the light that shines in the darkness and darkness has never put it out. In a chapter I can't find now he expresses his atheistic worldview: "There is no god. Life is precious. Man is on his own" or something.
But I don't now wether there is a god since the "immigrant " alien mentions some kind of god. Maybe you know more. I am eager to read your thoughts.
I too always thought Gantz was nihilistic, of course in that world there would have to be no God, but if not nihilistic then certainly very pessimistic and not to keen on human values. I think Oku believes in a God, though a human hero like Kei is needed to show some values, sure will is a good one but Kei has also shown love which is not nihilistic. I agree that the theme of Gantz is a chaotic godless world, but it has Gods of it's own, aliens are there, the Gantz ball was a God of sort, even more the ones who made it. Sebastian as well. But I agree inspirations can be drawn from Nietzsche, but maybe I disagree on Kei being will? So he might represent some of the values yet, even though he himself at first did not have many.
Gantz is a story that does not require a god to progress, it neither negates nor affirm its existence. But the figure of authority (i.e. in the form of a leader, who controls who) and principle (i.e. of what is right and wrong, what the aliens want the Gantz team be perceived as) is included in a way that it is inevitably required in order for people to function, which is why it has become a norm and regardless of it being one of the norms.
In the end, this has become survival of the fittest. No matter how cliché it sounds: the strong will live and the weak shall die. However, the ending is still uncertain, there can eventually be co-existence.
I have a lot of respect for people that do things for the sake of doing things.
My friend is a vegetarian, and I respect his decision because of how expresses his choice.
"Im not saying eating meat is wrong, we are the top predator on the planet and you should be able to eat whatever you want, and yes meat is delicious. That being said, I dont eat meat"
But the only thing I do have to say is that, Inaba, the guy you were referring to babbling about their not being a god.
I mean come on, for someone to get fucked around with THAT BADDLY, theres gotta be a god lol.
The dude finally stands up for himself, and then WHAM! the angle Statue of david kills him.
Thats some divine humor right there.
Hopefully you will come back cause I have a question.
where would Katou fit into this analogy?
Cause hes the kind of guy that never wanted to kill anything in the first place, until it was impossible not too. If my memory serves me correct, he really only kills if hes about to die, or if someone else is about to die. So where does he fit into this all?
Last edited by kliff2004; February 07, 2012 at 02:38 PM.
*firstly, sorry for my english*
Raskolnikow you are the greatest,
your(Nietzsche) philosophy applies on every aspects, and the messages behind the manga is also similiar to what you said.
it at least solves the problem "if you are oku, how do you plot this
"oku based on what to plot"
i think oku won't clearly mention or show the present of god, nor he canOriginally Posted by Raskolnikow
because we simply don't trust him enough, even if he says gantz is made by god,we will still argue whether the god is an "immigrant" alien, won't we?
again, sorry for my english but here we go.Originally Posted by Raskolnikow
After oku mentioned "immigrant" alien, i give up thinking on the scenario "what if the aliens are the part of gantz", which means the aliens have nothing to do with gantz,i thought they are just immigrants,for real, until...
the very first question popped up in my mind,
if there's no gantz, human cant protect themselves, gantz is doubtlessly a gift, why human is so special that we are gifted? i find it senseless,all creatures are equal,if human is specially treaten by god or sth. then i would say "this is unreal,because it's a manga"
The idea "the aliens have nothing to do with gantz" is wrong. The scale should cover all aliens and human, implies gantz is caused by a higher level of power, its effect changes all creatures,so there's not much option but only god can do sth. like that.
to conclude, when the manga ends,
- if oku says gantz is highly related to god, then the mistery "whether gantz is highly related to god" is still unsolved because that thing can be an alien,for example. This leads to no end...or i should use a better term, an open ending.
- if not, then we may have a clearer explanation, hopefully a closed ending. we've watched Gantz for years, i hope we will have an answer.
The aliens that are trying to take over earth, have probably been doing this for generations, and have taken over many planets.
I feel that the technology came from a planet that is either currently dealing with the same aliens (there can be more than one space colony ship) or had dealt with them in the past and lost, and does not want to see earth suffer the same fate.
Theres an american movie called "cowboys and aliens" that relies on this very plot.
ooo I like that explanation of Katou.
Think of the opposing alien technologies as a game of texas hold'em, or chess.
The pieces are either equal or roughly equal. But the key to victory lies in how you use your resources.
In a texas hold'em game, you can come out on top based on how you play the game, even with infrior cards, and you can win a chess game against an oppenent with more powerful pieces, as long as you play your remaining pieces properly.
So far, theres no reason to assume the gantz techology is worse than aliens. Its more of how you use it.
The aliens Kei2 is fighting right now easily defeated other gantzers in advanced suits, only to be defeated themselves by a simple and basic katana strike to the proper place.
I don't think there was a lot of thought put into these characters. With the exception of possibly Kei they're all just exaggerations of characteristics of real human beings.
i like to read this thread and the differents opinions / theory, but my own view on this manga is quite simple and relies mostly on kurono :
he was like all of us a simple moron driven by the will to become a superhero, he had his own view about the world (remember the 1st chapter at the subway ? gotta love reading it over and over again) and powerless as he was, he wanted to see the world end. Because he had nothing to lose ! no job, no girlfriend, no real friends, no points living an empty life like that.
I could say that as soon he "died" he in fact was born again ! not only he has powers, but whats more important is his will combined with the new physical abilities that the suit gives him.
his confidence has made him immortal.
but that is the problem for somebody who was a lost soul and became full of life in a sudden!
that is kurono 2 from last chapters. he's as empty as kurono 1 with no powers.
whatever, am getting off my point.. i just want to say that Gantz is freedom.
we all live in society where we think we are free where in fact we're not. we cannot become what we want, we cannot do what we want, we cannot be our true selves, because we want
to survive hypocritically by denying who we really are.
our "modern" way of life behind computers is the signature of the doom of the individuals. facebook, twiter etc just to name a few.
nothing exciting is coming to our nations anymore besides new gadgets and so on.
Fukuyama was right, since the end of WW2, History died.
Sometimes War is a prelude to new beginnings.
i mean in the old days when reilgion is everywhere, science did make all reilgions fail and meaningless, people were just as sad as us in present.
i would have agreed with you if we have no technology,Quote:
i think Einstein was also right, he said "I do not know what weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
much like catastrophe in GANTZ, the impact of WW3 is going to be planetary, it's not the same story as in WW2 or 1, it's way too risky for human(not just a particular nation) to learn a lesson through war.
kind of disagree with the first half,
i think we still have the freedom to survive as "in the right way", and choose not to survive hypocritically.
i also see people giving up freedom because they think "to survive hypocritically" is an absolute fact and choose not to protest to at lest defend their own rights, this happens in the US and my place(hong kong)