Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Celebrate MH's birthday and the RETURN OF MANGA!! Start downloading, translating and scanlating manga HERE - legally!
Like us on Facebook, Follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year of MH and check out our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga: (4/14/14 - 4/20/14).
Site News: Check out our new sections: Nisekoi and Kingdom
Events: Nominate and vote for the winners in the Seinen Awards!
Translations: Gintama 490 (2)
New Reply
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Random Theories

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Country
    Germany
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,748
    Post Thanks / Like

    Random Theories

    Basically at some point a few weeks ago, while going through the manga and discussing some aspects, I started theorizing that some additional parts were planned, but removed from the final product for whatever reason, but hints as to what could have been there still exist. There are two (major) instances I've found, both of which you can find below, the first one I believe to simply have taken place off-screen, the second one to have been removed entirely.

    I don't have much else to say, obviously I don't necessarily expect everyone to share my point of view on these issues, but maybe it'll provide some food for thought. So without further delay:

    (1) Black Jersey Brigade vs 2nd Court - Chapter 47.1, 47.2 (Flashback)

    Story:
    The BJB return to the camp and challenge 2nd Court to a Team Shuffle. They have to defeat all members of 2nd Court to win, in other words they can't lose any of the six matches. Estimated line-up (I included some results, but they're really just random guesses):
    First Match: Tanishi 7-6
    Second Match: Niou/Momoshiro 6-3
    Third Match: Tooyama 6-0
    Fourth Match: Yanagi/Inui 6-2
    Fifth Match: Sanada 6-0
    Sixth Match: Ryoma vs Migihashi 0-0 (Forfeit)
    Migihashi is capable of hitting 6ao. Ryoma evolves from 5ao to 7ao during the match and Migihashi forfeits before the end of the first game (compare anime Ep 13). Migihashi gets to stay since he hasn't officially lost unlike the other members.

    Justification:
    1. Almost normal team shuffle since players like Sakata or Kadowaki realistically aren't strong enough to win these matches (i.e. different from anime where all of the BJB had to play, same reason why the conditions are slightly adjusted).
    2. Line-up taken from the players that were in the focus in Ch 48 P 3 (it happens to be only those eight).
    3. Tanishi becoming skinny as temporary boost; only character with such a drastic change that gets reversed immediately afterwards.
    4.1 Migihashi having 9ao like in the anime would put him above Tooyama pre G10, which would be odd considering his position in the 2nd String line-up and Tooyama being able to handle Hakamada without too much trouble.
    4.2 Ryoma going from 5ao to 8ao on the same day he got the former without it being shown seems equally weird, same with an improvement from 5ao to 10ao in a single match.
    4.3 Ch 66 P 11. Tokugawa only wants to increase to rallying with 7 balls at first instead of 10. Could be random of course, but might also be the number that Ryoma last hit during a match.
    4.4 Parallel growth to Tooyama. Tooyama went from 5ao (Mountain Camp) to 8ao (pre G10, 10 day shuffle) to 10ao (Match with Oni), so 5+3+2. With this theory, Ryoma would go from 5ao (Mountain Camp) to 7ao (Match with Migihashi) to 10ao (pre G10, 10 day shuffle). While not completely the same, the pattern of 5 (Mountain) +3 (10 days) +2 (Match) seems similar enough to be categorized as parallel.


    Spoiler:  (2) Discarded Theory show



    (3) The True Form of the 1st String

    That said, did any of you actually try to put in Oni as No. 5 and just push everyone else down by one position? You get this if you do:

    Code:
    1. Byoudouin	11. Mouri
    2. Tanegashima	12. Fuwa
    3. Duke		13. Date
    4. ???		14. Ban
    5. Oni		15. Hakamada
    6. Kaji		16. Mutsu
    7. Ohmagari	17. Mutsu
    8. Kimijima	18. Mitsuya
    9. Tohno	19. Taira
    10. Ochi	20. Hara
    Now, if you put the bottom half into a line-up while keeping their doubles pairs as they were, you get this:

    Quote Quote:
    1st Match: Taira/Hara
    2nd Match: Mitsuya
    3rd Match: Mutsu/Mutsu
    4th Match: Hakamada
    5th Match: Date/Ban
    6th Match: Fuwa
    7th Match: Mouri
    So doubles, singles, doubles, singles, doubles, singles, singles in that order. Sound familiar? It happens to be the same as the match order for the G10 matches that are happening right now.

    It also gets rid of that ugly 23 -> 22 -> 21 -> 19 sequence for the singles spots and replaces it with a much nicer 24 -> 23 -> 22 -> 21 one, if that bothered anyone besides me.


    If you then apply the order to the G10, you get this:

    Quote Quote:
    1st Match: Tohno/Ochi
    2nd Match: Kimijima
    3rd Match: Kaji/Ohmagari
    4th Match: Oni
    5th Match: Duke/???
    6th Match: Tanegashima
    7th Match: Byoudouin
    So maybe that's how it originally looked like? We know at least that Kimijima didn't exactly seem happy with Tohno as partner, so that might not have been his choice, and we also know from the fanbook interview that Ochi/Mouri was just decided by the coaches at some point.


    So yeah, discuss.
    Last edited by Kaoz; September 24, 2013 at 05:20 AM.

  2. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #2
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Hardy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Outer Heaven
    Country
    Argentina
    Age
    20
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,740
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [Theory] Shin Prince of Tennis Version 0.X

    Ok so, let's see what this thread has.

    I really agree with most of the first part, and it's highly likely that it was a plan (having those 8 playing). Btw, Tanishi had so much screen time in NPoT that it would be simply dumb not to see him playing ANY real matches (as long as Kite is around, I don't think that any of the other Higa guys have a chance to get into the 1st string).

    I don't really agree with the 4th point, Migihashi could have had 9 at once, and he could had been better than Kintarou pre-Hakamada, why not? he was chosen to play against the G 10 after all, he was prolly good enough to be part of the top 20. Also, Ryoma had already 10 at once when he practiced with Tokugawa at night. Imo Tooyama is growing slower than Ryoma, at least a bit.

    About the second part... I have no idea, I totally missed the 2nd String line-up (never saw it before... could you link me please?).

    IMO they didn't play at all... why would they just postpone S2 and S1? that doesn't really make sense.

    This page says "we will include the middle schoolers when we create the match order", it doesn't say that it would have only Middleschoolers...

    http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5523/...?v=11324870171

    ...but I still don't wanna believe that Tokugawa was chosen (lol), I think that it was actually Ryoma and that it is a MS challenge. We still don't know who will end up playing for the No 1 spot, nor the 4th.

    ---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------

    I wanna ask something. If Akutsu was supposed in the original line up to play against Oni, who was going to play doubles with Sanada?

  4. #3
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Country
    Germany
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,748
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [Theory] Shin Prince of Tennis Version 0.X

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    I don't really agree with the 4th point, Migihashi could have had 9 at once, and he could had been better than Kintarou pre-Hakamada, why not? he was chosen to play against the G 10 after all, he was prolly good enough to be part of the top 20. Also, Ryoma had already 10 at once when he practiced with Tokugawa at night.
    Why would being a 2nd string chosen to play against the G10 mean that you're on par with the 11-20? It seems logical that the 11-20 are at least a bit stronger than any of the 2nd stringers, otherwise they wouldn't have those spots.

    Of course there are exceptions in Kazuya, Irie and Oni, but they were in the focus a fair bit and also occupied the top 3 spots of the 2nd String ranking. We haven't been given any reason to believe that Migihashi is stronger than what his court suggests and he's also only No. 11 in the line-up.
    Migihashi also has a pair puri profile, but to my knowledge there's nothing mentioned about him being stronger than 2nd court.

    And I know that Ryoma already had 10ao when he practiced with Kazuya, which means he definitely increased the number of balls off-screen, but the question is by how much. Kintarou did by 3 and while it might be random like I said, Kazuya only wanted to increase the number of balls by 2 at first.
    With those two numbers you get the 5 (Mountain) + 2 (vs Migihashi) + 3 (Off-screen).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Imo Tooyama is growing slower than Ryoma, at least a bit.
    Well, if you don't see it that way, there's nothing I can really do about it. I think they do given how they both met Tokugawa and Oni and they both gained 5ao at the same time as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    About the second part... I have no idea, I totally missed the 2nd String line-up (never saw it before... could you link me please?).
    http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5523/...?v=11309070108
    Apparently this version still has the old page, so you can actually see what I'm talking about. As you can see, the list has only 19 names on it and there's a name in the bottom left which we can't see. In the volume release of this chapter, that's revealed to be Yamato.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    IMO they didn't play at all... why would they just postpone S2 and S1? that doesn't really make sense.
    Maybe postpone was a bad choice of words? Basically while all the other HSers were replaced by MSers, Kazuya is still part of the line-up - why is that? The best explanation I can think of is that everyone besides him already got to play and lost.

    Oni isn't part of the line-up anymore for obvious reasons, but a match between him and Tanegashima at that point probably wouldn't do any good for either of them. So I figured it wouldn't have happened either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    I wanna ask something. If Akutsu was supposed in the original line up to play against Oni, who was going to play doubles with Sanada?
    Given that Sanada went out of his way to find a new partner and nobody actually complained when Akutsu stepped on the court in their stead, it was probably Kintarou.

  5. #4
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Country
    Germany
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,748
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [Theory] Shin Prince of Tennis Version 0.X

    First of all, discarding the second point. Gonna keep it in the OP in spoilers, but yeah.

    That said, did any of you actually try to put in Oni as No. 5 and just push everyone else down by one position? You get this if you do:

    Code:
    1. Byoudouin	11. Mouri
    2. Tanegashima	12. Fuwa
    3. Duke		13. Date
    4. ???		14. Ban
    5. Oni		15. Hakamada
    6. Kaji		16. Mutsu
    7. Ohmagari	17. Mutsu
    8. Kimijima	18. Mitsuya
    9. Tohno	19. Taira
    10. Ochi	20. Hara
    Now, if you put the bottom half into a line-up while keeping their doubles pairs as they were, you get this:

    Quote Quote:
    1st Match: Taira/Hara
    2nd Match: Mitsuya
    3rd Match: Mutsu/Mutsu
    4th Match: Hakamada
    5th Match: Date/Ban
    6th Match: Fuwa
    7th Match: Mouri
    So doubles, singles, doubles, singles, doubles, singles, singles in that order. Sound familiar? It happens to be the same as the match order for the G10 matches that are happening right now.

    It also gets rid of that ugly 23 -> 22 -> 21 -> 19 sequence for the singles spots and replaces it with a much nicer 24 -> 23 -> 22 -> 21 one, if that bothered anyone besides me.


    If you then apply the order to the G10, you get this:

    Quote Quote:
    1st Match: Tohno/Ochi
    2nd Match: Kimijima
    3rd Match: Kaji/Ohmagari
    4th Match: Oni
    5th Match: Duke/???
    6th Match: Tanegashima
    7th Match: Byoudouin
    So maybe that's how it originally looked like? We know at least that Kimijima didn't exactly seem happy with Tohno as partner, so that might not have been his choice, and we also know from the fanbook interview that Ochi/Mouri was just decided by the coaches at some point.

  6. #5
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Hardy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Outer Heaven
    Country
    Argentina
    Age
    20
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,740
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [Theory] Shin Prince of Tennis Version 0.X

    Hasn't been Mouri playing with Ochi for a while already and that he "shines" at doubles? Wouldn't it be wasted potential?

    Why did you discard your 2nd theory?

  7. #6
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Country
    Germany
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,748
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [Theory] Shin Prince of Tennis Version 0.X

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Hasn't been Mouri playing with Ochi for a while already and that he "shines" at doubles? Wouldn't it be wasted potential?
    Well, what I posted is like 7 months ago status in my opinion (so beginning of this school year), which would still qualify as a long time I'd say. And it was said that Mouri doesn't cut it in singles, but I think that's for G10 level (since everyone's stats seem to get compared to their current ranking in the explanation), and he'd still be perfectly fine for the 11-20.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Why did you discard your 2nd theory?
    Because I lost the point that supported it the most.

  8. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  9. #7
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Country
    Germany
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,748
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: [Theory] Shin Prince of Tennis Version 0.X

    It just occurred to me that I've never posted this (or if I did it was somewhere in the hangout and screw searching through that), but does anyone remember this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
    Retcon incoming. Remember the matches between the 11-20 and the 2nd String HSers? Konomi changed those a bit in the fanbook:

    Spoiler show


    Takei is the obvious change here, he faced Mitsuya in the original release. It's unclear whether the position of any of the generic HSers was changed.
    After making that post, I was wondering if there wasn't a way to satisfy both the fanbook information and what we had gotten to see in the chapter. After all, it seems quite weird to draw this, just to move Takei to the G10 challengers afterwards for no reason at all.

    So who could have defeated him? Mitsuya apparently played against Kobayashi and it seems unlikely that he retired two high schoolers before facing Yanagi and Inui, so it probably wasn't him. Akiba then? It didn't seem like he had met anyone before Irie, so I don't think it was him either.

    Now, I'm thinking that it actually was Irie himself who did that to Takei. Considering that Irie was No. 3 of the 2nd string, there's basically no way he was actually supposed to face a number so far below his own - but is it plausible that Takei should have faced Akiba? Given that he was the weakest 2nd stringer who made the list, I'd say yes. Adding to that, the 11-20 kinda mirrored their opponents' abilities, and Takei is a power player according to the fanbook.

    This can also be supported by the coaches' reaction when Irie returns after beating Akiba, they seemed surprised at his appearance, so maybe he was never supposed to go anywhere in the first place?

    Lastly, when looking at these two pages, you will notice how there are locations shown, maybe that's where those players were defeated? And as you can see, for Takei it doesn't show a court, but a random pathway.

    So basically the idea is that Irie slipped away from the rest of the top 10 challengers, told some random guy to stand in his place, went after Takei, beat him up before he reached the courts, and finally just went to challenge Akiba himself.

  10. #8
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Friss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Random Theories

    My random theory is that this is all a dream brought on by Yukimura and we are still at Nationals match between Ryoma and Yukimura.

  11. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
New Reply

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts