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Thread: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Sir Isley's Avatar
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    So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    I'm arguing with someone and they keep trying to tell me that the landmass where the manga takes place is an island because the "official English" translations says so and I disagree because 90% of the time "official English" versions screw things up.

    So which is it?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Nanozom's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    It´s a Continent...
    Think Australia... only bigger.
    ...

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bayuga's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    Yes, it's a continent. Here are the chapters, characters talked about a continent.

    Helen in chapter 25, page 28.

    Raki in chapter 31, page 16

    Galatea in chapter 45, page 22

    Cynthia in chapter 83, page 3

    But two times, charcters used the word island. I think, it's only a wrong interpretation, because the land mass is completely surrounded by water. Australia is also surrounded by water, but it's a continent, not a island.
    And of course, a island has not such different climatic zones.

    Another evidence for a continent is the distance between the Organisation and Rabona. Claymores need 20 days with full speed for the distance. Some people think, Claymores need 20 days with human speed because Raki , but this is not true. Helen said in chapter 127 clearly: "Even if we follow now and run at full speed it is uncertain whether we can get to Rabona before her (Cassandra)". Well trained humans are able to run 100 - 150 km in one day. The world record is 300 km. 100 km in one day should be no problem for the Claymores. So the distance between Rabona and the Organisation is at least 2000 km. But the land is of course much bigger. And this is the size of a continent.
    Last edited by Bayuga; May 06, 2014 at 01:17 PM.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Number A's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    Let us consult Wikipedia, the Oracle of our time: A continent is one of several very large landmasses on Earth. They are generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria, with up to seven regions commonly regarded as continents. These are (from largest in size to smallest): Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Australia.

    Basically the gist of the article is there are no hard-and-fast rules and people argue about it a lot. Geology actually gets into tangible things that can be measured but the rules aren't hard-and-fast here either. The word 'continent' isn't consistently used in real-life so I think we shouldn't worry about it too much. They live on a very large landmass surrounded by water. That's all that can be said for certain.

    Also, I think your distance estimates need to take into account the fact that, if the landscape shots are to be believed, their country is incredibly hilly. That 300k number is from someone running on a track. It's really not comparable to the conditions that Claymores deal with. I can't say with any certainty how the geography of their country would affect travel times but the distance could easily be half what your numbers suggest.
    Last edited by Number A; May 07, 2014 at 02:38 AM.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bayuga's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    I don't think, that the Claymores would only run through the wilderness. Deneve and the others have used the secret path in the northern mountains. I'm sure, there are more roads, which they can use. And a few hills should be no problem for the ladies. They are super humans, and they can compensate the time loss. So, 1500-2000 km sounds for me absolutely realistic. And such a distance would explain the different climatic zones.
    Last edited by Bayuga; May 07, 2014 at 07:03 AM.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Number A's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayuga View Post
    I don't think, that the Claymores would only run through the wilderness. Deneve and the others have used the secret path in the northern mountains. I'm sure, there are more roads, which they can use.
    That makes sense, sure, but I can't think of a single scene in the story showing a path that's more than a dirt track :P If there are roads, we never see them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayuga View Post
    And a few hills should be no problem for the ladies. They are super humans, and they can compensate the time loss.
    I guess, but warriors only seem to go into sprint-mode in emergencies. In the vast majority of travel scenes in this story, they're shown moving at a brisk walking pace. Also, we're not talking 'hills', we're talking long chains of ridges everywhere. I can't think of a single landscape shot in this entire story that doesn't have mountains in the near distance. That sort of terrain takes time to navigate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayuga View Post
    such a distance would explain the different climatic zones.
    So would hilly terrain. You ever been to New Zealand?

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bayuga's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    Quote Originally Posted by Number A View Post
    I guess, but warriors only seem to go into sprint-mode in emergencies. In the vast majority of travel scenes in this story, they're shown moving at a brisk walking pace.
    The goal was, to reach Rabona before Cassandra. That's why we can say it was a emergency. And like Helen said: "run at full speed", and not with walking pace.

    I think, New Zealand is a special case, because of the shape of the islands, location, ocean current and the north-to-south extension.

    The Claymore Continent has a different shape, but the location is more comparable with europe. Also the climatic zones with middle european clime in the center, arctic clime in the north etc. This land is Yagi's version of europe. And this makes sense, because the culture is also european.
    Last edited by Bayuga; May 07, 2014 at 12:01 PM.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Number A's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayuga View Post
    The goal was, to reach Rabona before Cassandra. That's why we can say it was a emergency. And like Helen said: "run at full speed", and not with walking pace.
    She says "If we had walked it would have taken us at least 20 days" in chapter 128. Sure, she used the phrase "run at full speed" in chapter 127 but I think she's using 'run' as shorthand for 'move as quickly as we can given the terrain and the limits of our endurance'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayuga View Post
    I think, New Zealand is a special case, because of the shape of the islands, location, ocean current and the north-to-south extension. The Claymore Continent has a different shape, but the location is more comparable with europe. Also the climatic zones with middle european clime in the center, arctic clime in the north etc. This land is Yagi's version of europe.
    Their world does pretty well on the north-south extension front too. Also, NZ's climate variation is mostly a consequence of it being extremely mountainous. If you want an example that's closer to (your) home, the Wikipedia article on the geography of Switzerland makes much of the role changing elevation plays in the wide range of climates found in the country.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bayuga View Post
    And this makes sense, because the culture is also european.
    What does culture have to do with climate? Also, their body language is kinda Japanese sometimes and it's a very hilly country.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    In conjuncture with one of Number A's replies above, I have a feeling we're getting all too technical, and I think this video should cut the technical tendencies in the discussion by a half, lol.

    We have talked about the possible size of the Claymore land before, my guess here makes reference to Australia's size, which is massive either way to say the least. (The calculation is based on the knowledge of:
    - Helen says it normally takes 20 days Org--->Rabona should they have hurriedly walked (meaning her judgement takes into account of Raki, a human, slowing them down)
    - the island is + shaped
    - Walking speed ~5 km/h, upper bound ~9 km/h
    - The Error in the calculation also takes into account of the topology and the need for rest in between.)



    As for the actually word used by the Claymore people, the word is "tairiku" (大陸) which technically means "continent." Before I continue, do take a quick look at the Wikipedia article about the History of the Concept of "Continent".

    "From the 16th century the English noun continent was derived from the term continent land, meaning continuous or connected land and translated from the Latin terra continens. The noun was used to mean "a connected or continuous tract of land" or mainland." - quoted from Wikipedia, which is cited from the Oxford English Dictionary.

    And finally, note that "tairiku" (大陸) literally means "big (大) land (陸)."

    Combining the ideas above, I would say: For people who possible don't have knowledge of tectonic plates and such, it is unlikely they would be using the word in a technical way. I believe that the people are being literal with the word and nothing else. There is still this question of, if they think theirs is the only piece of land in the world, why don't they call it "this world" instead of "this (big) land?" To which I think the concept of "the world" stems from the fact that you know there's a lot of other things/land out there, the word "world" is used to include all those things outside of your bounds that you know exist (whether you've seen it or not. You call the Universe "Universe" even though you don't fully know what the Universe holds, but you sort of know what to expect. On the other hand, even if you think there's something outside of the Universe, you still refer to "Everything in this Universe" because you lack the knowledge for what lies beyond the Universe, it's out of your bound and it isn't generally something you care to include in your speech, and hence you lack the word to describe it. I think it's similar in the case of the people on the Claymore land. If you have a word for the "world" already, in their case "This (big) land," then generally I expect they would choose the more specific/familiar of the two to describe the place they're living in.)

    Sorry for rant.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Number A's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsune View Post
    In conjuncture with one of Number A's replies above, I have a feeling we're getting all too technical, and I think this video should cut the technical tendencies in the discussion by a half, lol.
    OMG! I love CGP Grey! That's exactly what I was getting at only easier to digest than Wikipedia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsune View Post
    Sorry for rant.
    Don't be ^_^ I'm pretty sure that's what MH is for.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Sir Isley's Avatar
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    Re: So is it an "Island" or "Continent"

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsune View Post
    Sorry for rant.
    There's no need to be sorry. I enjoy these things.

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