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Thread: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

  1. #1
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    So as you know, breaking the absolute prediction of Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami is an extremely difficult and impressive feat. So far in the series it has countered by being unpredictable, having a better prediction yourself or hitting on instinct. However, if the prediction is made, so far in the series it is never wrong. The Saiki Kanpatsu prediction gives the minimum amount of shots to win, not the exact number. And so far, the predictions have all be exceeded.

    So is it possible for Saiki Kanpatsu to be defeated with a lower number of shots? Meaning that the point is won in less shots predicted.
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    I think that yes, if a player uses Saiki Kanpatsu No kiwami and, for exmaple, predicts that the next point will take... 15 shots, and is using it against an opponent who is stronger, the other player could hit a powerful and fast shot and break the prediction, ending the point in maybe 5 or 6 shots.

    You can also use closed eyes but if you use it your opponent won't be able to predict you, using In is another method of defeating Saiki. But I think that if a player with Saiki faces an stronger opponent, and makes a prediction, the other player could end the point in less shots than the Saiki predicted, so it would be useless.

    Another way is Yips, as it completely cancels Saiki and Hyakuren. Chitose stated when playing against Tezuka that "Saiki isn't a thing that can be broken by a mere fluke", if you face an stronger opponent, Saiki would be useless in my opinion, as the other player could end the point before the prediction.
    Last edited by LetalHawk; January 17, 2012 at 01:03 PM.

  3. #3
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    I think that yes, if a player uses Saiki Kanpatsu No kiwami and, for exmaple, predicts that the next point will take... 15 shots, and is using it against an opponent who is stronger, the other player could hit a powerful and fast shot and break the prediction, ending the point in maybe 5 or 6 shots.
    Not really.
    Brilliant Insight defeated Doubled Return with Chitose VS Tezuka where Tezuka is definetely the stronger player.
    Tezuka had to bring out Brilliant Insight + Doubled Return to win.


    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    You can also use closed eyes but if you use it your opponent won't be able to predict you, using In is another method of defeating Saiki. But I think that if a player with Saiki faces an stronger opponent, and makes a prediction, the other player could end the point in less shots than the Saiki predicted, so it would be useless.
    This comes under hitting on Instinct. With no influence from your prediction skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Another way is Yips, as it completely cancels Saiki and Hyakuren. Chitose stated when playing against Tezuka that "Saiki isn't a thing that can be broken by a mere fluke", if you face an stronger opponent, Saiki would be useless in my opinion, as the other player could end the point before the prediction.
    Saiki would eventually reach its limit. its not like Tezuka could just break the limit right from the get go.
    Tezuka also then brought out Saiki. So its not exactly useless but an awesome technique. It completely handled Doubled Return.

    I think stronger opponent or not, the only techniques that stopped Saiki were Closed Eye, Saiki with a higher limit, Yips and Shadow. I imagine Niou's Illusion and Kabaji's Super Copy could probably get their way around it too.

    It hasnt been shown that a stronger opponent means it is cancelled out. Tachibana couldnt handle it. He is strong. Although to be honest, I remember that he only hit in certain places but yeah. Its not been overpowered by sheer brute strength in the series.

  4. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Or maybe a far stronger player, imagine if Chitose plays against Tanegashima or Tokugawa, Saiki would be canceled, we have to see a match where Saiki is nullyfied from the get go. Tooyama vs ChitosE, another example, Chitose activates Saiki and predicts the point will last 22 shots, Tooyama decides to use Yama Arashi before the 21 shot, the point ends.
    Last edited by LetalHawk; January 17, 2012 at 05:43 PM.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Not really.
    Brilliant Insight defeated Doubled Return with Chitose VS Tezuka where Tezuka is definetely the stronger player.
    I don't think Chitose would have needed Saiki to seal Hyakuren since it's really the fact that he hits shots without much power that makes Hyakuren useless. He needed Saiki to eventually win points, but not specifically to seal Hyakuren.

    That being said, we've seen with Chitose vs Tachibana that Saiki is limited by the user's abilities. For example, Chitose was afraid of Abare Dama and would have been unable to return it if Tachibana hadn't hit it directly at him.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    You could accidentally hit a cord ball to win. For reliable methods as saeki is based on calculation, I think that you would just have to exceed their knowledge of your ability. Rapidly evolving players such as fuji, echizen or atobe may improve rapidly enough to nullify saeki

  7. #7
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by LetalHawk View Post
    Or maybe a far stronger player, imagine if Chitose plays against Tanegashima or Tokugawa, Saiki would be canceled, we have to see a match where Saiki is nullyfied from the get go. Tooyama vs ChitosE, another example, Chitose activates Saiki and predicts the point will last 22 shots, Tooyama decides to use Yama Arashi before the 21 shot, the point ends.
    In that instance, Saiki is just useless, not broken. Chitose would accurately predict that he would lose or predict how many points till he loses. At that point he could just give up because he knows that he will lose 100% of the time.

    ---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Surprise View Post
    You could accidentally hit a cord ball to win.
    You can't, Saiki takes EVERYTHING into account. There is not such thing as an accident. An "accidental" cord ball is the result of adding too much topspin, habit of flicking wrist, swing was awkward etc. The player had to aim somewhere but it hit the net for some reason. If the person were in that situation again, there is a high chance that it would be a cord ball again. Saiki takes this into account. The Saiki user would be able to accurately predict that the player would hit a cord ball in a certain situation. Saiki cannot be defeated by "a mere fluke".
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

  8. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LetalHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Then there's no way Saiki can be defeated with a lower number of shots, there are ways to avoid it like Yips or Shadow, but breaking it by winning the point before the prediction seems impossible.

  9. #9
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    I have a theory in why Tezuka could defeat Chitose's Saiki. We know that Tezuka has a better prediction that Chitose but how exactly does that work? This is what I think: First, Chitose makes the prediction. Tezuka also makes his prediction. Say that Chitose's was 8 shots and Tezuka's was 9. Chitose has now placed a "limit" on himself to only 8 shots. In other words, Chitose does not know what will happen in the point after 8 shots. Because Saiki is absolute, the user will subconsciously "think" that he is always correct. However, one with better mental processing (Tezuka) can foresee even further than the one with less (Chitose). So Tezuka would win. So seeing further into the "future" gives you an advantage.

    So a better mental processing equals an extension of the rally because the user can foresee even further. So this means that Saiki cannot be defeated with fewer shots by having a better prediction.
    Last edited by Fuji Shusuke; January 18, 2012 at 12:54 PM.
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

  10. #10
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuji Shusuke View Post
    You can't, Saiki takes EVERYTHING into account. There is not such thing as an accident. An "accidental" cord ball is the result of adding too much topspin, habit of flicking wrist, swing was awkward etc. The player had to aim somewhere but it hit the net for some reason. If the person were in that situation again, there is a high chance that it would be a cord ball again. Saiki takes this into account. The Saiki user would be able to accurately predict that the player would hit a cord ball in a certain situation. Saiki cannot be defeated by "a mere fluke".
    Precisely. Fuji had to use BOTH Closed Eye and Cord Ball to shut down Saiki.

  11. #11
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Any word on rapid evolution being able to win earlier than the prediction?

  12. #12
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Surprise View Post
    Any word on rapid evolution being able to win earlier than the prediction?
    Characters such as Echizen and Fuji who evolve rapidly might be able to do that. However, the only Saiki breaking abilities they have at the moment are a better prediction and hitting on instinct respectively. Shiraishi has stated himself that no one knows what Fuji is thinking and Inui has said that gathering data on Echizen is impossible because he evolves too quickly. These two are probably the only ones to be able to develop completely new techniques in the middle of a match. So in theory, you can break the prediction by making an impossible to return technique before the predicted amount of shots has passed. The technique must be a shot that has never been shown before because if it has, Saiki would have predicted it. So it would only work once.
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

  13. #13
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    The only way to break the Absolute Prediction is to use the ultimate Tennis Eye of Darkness aura which can stop time for 5 seconds.

    Or, change up on 'em. If Saiki is Super Data Tennis, then it should still be Data Tennis at it's core and have the same weakness.

  14. #14
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandnewkid View Post
    Or, change up on 'em. If Saiki is Super Data Tennis, then it should still be Data Tennis at it's core and have the same weakness.
    Mentioned with Instinct. When Inui used Instinct to defeat Yanagi.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Breaking the Absolute Prediction

    How about the absolute techniques that you started a thread for? If Saeki came up against them, do you think that it would just come to the conclusion that they couldn't win the point? I think that is likely, either that or they would figure out a way to prevent the technique from being used

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