A vs. Minato

[KiSwordsman]

What do u consider prep?
The battle has started when they met, prep is what shikamary does before the fight even starts for example with hidan

So to you prep is only defined as things that opponents do before they meet each other? To me prep is defined as not only that but anything someone does to get an attack or strategy to work. Example: Katon: Gōryūka no Jutsu was prep for Kirin.

---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------

Look clearly at Minato kunai he's holding.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v57/c542/15.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v57/c542/16.html

Similar to this -> Unprepared LOL
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v53/c502/14.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v53/c502/16.html

No matter how u look at it Minato always have his own kunai in his hand :P

ALso Minato is fast without Flying thunder god technique even faster than Sasuke.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-245-2/...apter-240.html <- From this Spot
http://www.mangareader.net/93-245-8/...apter-240.html <- Sunshin Jutsu.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-245-9/...apter-240.html <- Back to Spot again. No Marking what so ever.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-245-10...apter-240.html <- Here he used Flying Thunder God technique.

So Here another one
http://www.mangareader.net/93-54942-...apter-500.html <- Minato Struggling Trying to supress the seal.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-54942-...apter-500.html <- You can even see it in his expression.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-54942-...apter-500.html <- Here Even after all that work, No Seal was mark to naruto.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html <- Tobi was about to Stab Naruto.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html <- There he teleport LOL No Marking what so ever.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html <- Here were Minato use Flying thunder god technique.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html <- Here he saved Kushina, Kushina doesnt even have the mark.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html <- Talk about his normal speed without flying thunder god.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55672-...apter-503.html <- Even Tobi bleed from Minato Rasengan - You cant deny that Minato is too strong for A. Even Naruto with kyuubi chakra couldn't hurt Tobi LoL.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-55672-...apter-503.html <- Not at least Tobi admitted it :P

So its clearly that even Minato reflexes and speed are beyond A with no lightning cloak armor.

A Lightning CLoak Armor = Minato normal speed. They can hit each other.
Flying thunder god > Lightning Cloak armor. :P Pretty much show there on Manga that flying thunder god was too hard for A.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-...apter-501.html

Firstly, it was stated already that Minato had placed the seal for hirashin within Kushina's seal. Also I'm not positive if you forgot or just plain out ignored the fact that Minato gave Kakashi a Hirashin Kunai for his B-day before there mission even started. Secondly I never said that minato was slow without Hirashin but if you honestly believe that he could dodge Ei without it then good luck with that.

I don't really get where you got the last bolded part from, might be because you cited parts of the manga without making sure to check everything, or maybe you're just choosing to outright ignore stuff.

And to address your first point. Minato's kunai he had in his hand wouldn't have mattered if Minato had not been given the advantage before the scene had started with the kunai that was already lodged in the tree. It won't matter in this fight because he will have no kunais anywhere

[Lemonadez]

Everyone use Prep in Naruto.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/preparation

So in Order for "A" to use speed he had to "Prepare" his Lightning Cloak Armor.

Its Similar to Minato, If he want to use Flying Thunder God Technique he need to prepare his Marking seal.

Both A and Minato can use it in Instant, they dont need to use any hand seal to activate it.


Yes Minato can dodge A attack LoL its called Reflex, even Sasuke manage to fight A :P
http://www.mangareader.net/93-31674-...apter-463.html <- clearly he dodge that Elbow, Talk about how fast Raikage with Lightning Cloak armor.

About the B-Day of kakashi, he used Flying thunder after Obito dies :-) didnt it said there look.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-249-12...apter-244.html <- See Kakashi took out minato kunai.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-249-14...apter-244.html <- Assuming Kakashi threw that Kunai LOL
http://www.mangareader.net/93-249-15...apter-244.html <- see Minato clearly explain how this Marking on Kunai jutsu work.

So Clearly at the first time Minato save kakashi that wasn't flying thunder god technique, if it was he would have taken out that guy instantly instead of saving kakashi..

[KiSwordsman]

Everyone use Prep in Naruto.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/preparation

So in Order for "A" to use speed he had to "Prepare" his Lightning Cloak Armor.

Its Similar to Minato, If he want to use Flying Thunder God Technique he need to prepare his Marking seal.

Both A and Minato can use it in Instant, they dont need to use any hand seal to activate it.


Yes Minato can dodge A attack LoL its called Reflex, even Sasuke manage to fight A :P
http://www.mangareader.net/93-31674-...apter-463.html <- clearly he dodge that Elbow, Talk about how fast Raikage with Lightning Cloak armor.

About the B-Day of kakashi, he used Flying thunder after Obito dies :-) didnt it said there look.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-249-12...apter-244.html <- See Kakashi took out minato kunai.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-249-14...apter-244.html <- Assuming Kakashi threw that Kunai LOL
http://www.mangareader.net/93-249-15...apter-244.html <- see Minato clearly explain how this Marking on Kunai jutsu work.

So Clearly at the first time Minato save kakashi that wasn't flying thunder god technique, if it was he would have taken out that guy instantly instead of saving kakashi..

Sigh..... The difference between hirashin and the lightning cloak is that it can be activated instantly or near instantly with nothing but Ei's chakra. Minato however, needs to make points of destination for hirashin to be effective, and for that to happen it takes time, far more time than it would take for Ei to get from point a to point be with his lightning cloak active, as we have already seen.

You also seem to completely ignore the fact that Sasuke had the Sharingan active which could predict Ei's movements at that point. Minato doesn't have that.

On your last point, Minato couldn't have used Hirashin when Kakashi got attacked because it wasn't blatantly explained at that time? Is that what you're saying?

[M3J]

His flesh was like steel and his blood like iron

Nope, that was about Sandaime Raikage, not A.

I think A would have a better chance of wining. Minato has no way of damaging A with the cloak, and even if he did, A would still most likely keep going. Raikage is very fast, and with Hiraishin Minato is faster, but Minato doesn't have the defense that A does nor the offense A does, especially to get through the armor. Nor does he have the stamina or chakra that A does, most likely. Minato's only saving grace or two only saving graces are Hiraishin and seals.

Since A would figure out Hiraishin's power, Minato's option would be to get the seal on A somehow without him noticing. Close combat wouldn't be a good idea for Minato unless he can avoid all attacks. Seals might work, but it might not, if there is a seal that cancels the cloak or mucks up the chakra network.

[Gats]

Nope, that was about Sandaime Raikage, not A.

I think A would have a better chance of wining. Minato has no way of damaging A with the cloak, and even if he did, A would still most likely keep going. Raikage is very fast, and with Hiraishin Minato is faster, but Minato doesn't have the defense that A does nor the offense A does, especially to get through the armor. Nor does he have the stamina or chakra that A does, most likely. Minato's only saving grace or two only saving graces are Hiraishin and seals.

Since A would figure out Hiraishin's power, Minato's option would be to get the seal on A somehow without him noticing. Close combat wouldn't be a good idea for Minato unless he can avoid all attacks. Seals might work, but it might not, if there is a seal that cancels the cloak or mucks up the chakra network.

The very moment Bee extended his tentacle to protect his brother against Minato's stab should be proof enough to show that Minato could pierce A's raiton armor. Even more when A apologized to his brother.
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/542/15

[Uchiha_Blood]

Then stop putting words in my mouth. You said I said he was slow. I corrected myself. You're not winning anything by both making up manga facts or making up claims that I never claimed.

You do realize that you're making a fuss for nothing, since my original statement was directed to another one, right?
Still, whatever floats your boat

There you go making stuff up again. First of all, you clearly see his body recovering from injury so no, he was NOT unharmed. It's your own manga scan and you neglected pay attention to the huge gash in his chest and shoulder that's closing back up thanks to Edo Tensei. For your second scan it says he has a reselient body. So what? It never, every claims that his body is resilient sans ninjutsu. Not once. Anywhere. Ever.

Who the hell implied otherwise!? I don't even- whatever.

A huge gash? all I see is a little cut that was regenerated in a second, if this is a huge gash then my friend you and I have a different perception of the meaning of the word. Still, even that "huge gash" was provoked to him by at least 3 Wind Ninjutsu user, so resisting 3 jutsus with only a "huge gash" proves that his body is way more resilient than normal.
If you remember, Temari in part 1 cut a forest with the jutsu that provoked that "huge gash".
As for the second, you're desperate to grab at something that can dispute the truth:
his base body is resilient, the Raiton Armour improves that. But it says his body, not his body clad in Raiton Armour.
Here ( thank Shaunlim by the way ) again, do you see any mention of Raiton Armour?
Even after the manga says so, if you want to think otherwise well... Your problem, not mine

The same way that Yugito grows cat claws: it's a physical representation of their tailed beast that they use via partial transformation. Just like how Bee can spit ink out of his mouth without turning into an octopus. They can use a partial form of the beast without transforming fully into another form. It's made using chakra, yes, but it's not made OF chakra like their tails when they access their boosted mode. The difference is as easy as looking at the pictures. As he taps into more and more tails he has a bubbly chakra shroud just like Naruto. His body's strength and speed grows. If he's just creating a tentacle for the sake of an extra limb, then that limb isn't gonna have herculean strength the likes of which it would if he had powered up to Version two.

Just like the big octopus hand he used to block Itachi's flaming shuriken. They pierced right into his hand and burned him aswell. Were he to power up to Version 2 the would've bounced off of the hand harmlessly. As for why Naruto can't do so, it's for the exact same reason he can't turn into a fox: because he wasn't in a partnership with Kyuubi. Remember, he tried to become the kyuubi and he became an SD friendly looking cartoon fox instead. Everytime we see Bee use his tentacles without them actually looking like condensed chakra it's JUST flesh from the Hachibi (evidenced by the fact that he is the one that squeals in pain, not Killerbee). It was his body. His flesh. His limbs.

I'm getting tecnical here, but you do realize that, even if that was the case, an Hachibi's limb is likely way more strong and resilient than a normal octopus limb?
It resisted a Bijuudama from the Kyuubi if you remember right, granted it was one shot only. Still, if it was only flesh, that Bijuudama would've destroyed it right here.
And no, I'm not implying that Minato's kunai is stroger than a Bijuudama so don't make a fuss out of it. I'm simply stating facts

Because he used the combination of intangibility, absorbing most of the bombs, and then Izanagi to survive having his body blown to pieces. Again, failure to pay attention on your behalf. He turned intangible to avoid 5 minutes worth, but only after absorbing some of them and getting blown almost to bits (and what do you know! He lost his fake arm. Again). He didn't tank anything. He was just fast enough to alter reality before he was completely dead.

I'm not talking about the sea of paper bombs, I'm talking about the first time, when he lost an arm and part of his mask thanks to Konan's own paperbombs.
He used Izanagi only on the 10 minutes explosions

No, not at all. Raikage was a centimeter from decapitating Minato, but because he didn't have to take the time to pull his kunai out of his back and then throw it, he could use Hiraishin to reach the tree behind him (as it takes no handseals to use it, just a thought). If that kunai was not already at the tree, Minato would have had to:

Reach into his bag.
Pull out one or more kunai.
Throw it/them.
Then teleport.

All of this in the time that Raikage's knuckles were in Minato's face, a hair away from turning his face into an inny? This is what we call a speedblitz. You can't believe this without giving up any credibility whatsoever. Also, he waited for Minato because at this point he didn't know how his power works. He wanted to play it safe and watch his first move before going on the offensive. It's the one time in the manga where playing it safe was the worst possible choice. He should've just rushed his ass the instant he saw him, as that would've literally ended Minato and thus, the tail of Uzumaki Naruto.

You're twisting manga facts for your own liking. Of course he used the one on the tree, why wouldn't he use it? We already saw that he can teleport even with a single kunai, and if you think that pulling and throwing a Kunai takes more than one second ( it takes way less, they're super-human ), then you're believing than Minato and any other ninja are noobs.
And way more, why Ee here should not wait for Yondaime? You said so yourself, he was cautious of Yondaime. How he magically knows that he can't do anything more? And more so, leaving Yondaime without a kunai is a clear example on your part that you wanted to impede the fight, since the way I see it you like to think that Minato can't reach for a kunai, and is dumb enough to not have one ready against another ninja.
Granted, this argument doesn't hold any weight and all since only you seem to believe that, but hey, it was a good try on your part.
And all this rage against Yondaime I don't really understand it, you seems to have pleasure in bashing him, for reasons I don't understand, but still

No you didn't. Dear god. It didn't go through, you can look at the picture and see he clearly has armor on his arm (look at the close up on the bottom right. To the far right you see the armor). Not to mention if he'd knocked the chakra armor off then the Jigoku Nikute would've fizzled out, since the Raiton on it would've disappeared. As for the rest, I haven't the foggiest idea where you get the idea that a Genin Chidori from Sasuke is as strong as his current Chidori. We're comparing basic ninja weaponry to high rank ninjutsu, aswell as a practically fully developed Chidori from a Raiton expert against a Rasengan from the creator of the jutsu. I've no reason to believe Sasuke's Chidori wouldn't do the same thing to Minato's Rasengan that it does to Naruto's. None.

You said so yourself with the whole "Is an A rank jutsu", my friend.
You didn't imply it, you outright said so.
And regarding the Armour, where do you take the idea that a single hit would make the Armour disappear? The RasenShuriken set it off since it covered all of the Third's body, a Rasengan don't do that extensive of a damage. Fact is, if Raiton armour would've protected him then the Rasengan would not do any damage at all, not even redirecting the arm.

Take both of the ninja out of the equation and just look at the attacks themselves. As far as power goes it's Sage Mode Rasengan>Rasengan>Chidori>>>>kunai. We've seen that the Sage Mode Rasengan can't pierce through Raiton Armor. So, by proxy, everything beneath it is incapable of breaking through aswell.

You know what? All that's besides the fact when you consider the damn Chidori didn't even do significant damage. Even if he could do equal damage with his basic kunai, or his Rasengan, that damage is still damage that won't stop him. I mean the Rasengan could potentially do more damage if it wasn't for how the attack works. It doesn't get boosted piercing damage by picking up speed or anything the way Chidori does, so the neglegable strength increase from a Rasengan actually wouldn't do better.

You said so yourself, the attacks works in a different way.
The fact that Chidori failed don't make the Rasengan automatically fail, since piercing is not the best damage dealer, or the best option here.
If that would be the case why Chidori don't cut the Rasengan in half? Simply put, a Rasengan may even prove more efficent against the Raiton Armour, who are you to say that it would not? And the whole "boost for speed" it made me laugh, since it was never ever used other than Sasuke vs Gaara.
Even so, a full powered Chidori is the same of a normal Rasengan, that we already seen, so it is likely to assume that Rasengan can potentially do the same deal of damage to Ee. Not implanting his fingers in his chest, but creating enough damage to draw blood. And my whole point is that, when one has Hiraishin, and has the other marked he can deal damage to sensitive body parts as the head repeteatly.

I think Motoi explains it. When he tells us that A is the one that broke off his horn with his karate chop. I'll find the scan.


http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v53/c494/1.html Here we learn that Sandaime had help each time (A is even there aiding him). Also, way back when Bee fought Sasuke he stated the only one to ever block his "Number 8" was Sasuke, and A. Not Sandaime. Also notice that Sandaime already has his Jigoku Nukite scar. Then...http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v53/c494/2.html He karate chops his horn off. Okay, so he didn't finish him on his own, but niether did Sandaime. So at the very least it proves what I was trying to say beforehand: that he's atleast as tough as his father.

he cut an horn and that makes him tough as his father?
Good lord, and then you accuse me of making up statements. Still it was the same flashback that I remembered, he needed his father to fight Hachibi. Point is, I'm not saying that Ee is weak or anything, I'm saying that power didn't matter against Hiraishin and a Rasengan to the face. Simple as that

[Shaunlim]

Nope, that was about Sandaime Raikage, not A.

I know. I was simply addressing the fact that Sandaime Raikage's body was naturally strong and it was the reason why he was said to have the "strongest shield" instead of his raiton cloak armor.

[mattiaildivino]

puts polls please

by the way minato wins,he is faster and smarter and he would slice A as he sliced bee's tentacle

[zimbardo]

I agree, Minato takes this.
I see no real way that A can deal with Minato once he has set up kunai for his Hiraishin technique. Minato's reflexes are just too good.
And before someone states that A can learn how to deal with Minato by predicting which Kunai he will jump to and attack him as soon as he appears:
This is how long it takes Minato to teleport - perhaps 3-5 inches (or less if he waited a bit longer) with A moving at top speed. Minato waited till the last moment to give A less time to react. Now let's say that Minato teleports to a kunai 10 meters away, he still has 9 meters 36.37-34.37 inches of A traveling at full speed to react and jump to another kunai. Added to this is that as long as he doesn't teleport to a kunai directly behind him, he also has a bit longer as A has to change the direction of his motion.
Added to the fact that A stated flat out that Minato was a better ninja then him (and a faster one) I think it is reasonably clear that Minato wins in the speed department.

That just leaves the question of if Minato can hurt A through his cloak - We have many suggestions in the manga to suggest he can. These include:
- Bee having to save A (and A thanking him for it, suggesting that it was needed)
- The fact that chidori managed to penetrate A's cloak. And it has been suggested that the chidori is equivalent to the rasengan. It's just that the rasengan doesn't penetrate as well, instead it does damage through the body rather than at a small point - equalling a greater degree of total damage at the end. This kind of damage is probably more suitable against A's cloak than a flat out penetrating damage. Also the degree of damage caused by Naruto's rasengan and Minato's appear somewhat different...
- The fact that A stated he could never surpass Minato suggests that Minato must have been able to do something to A.
- Minato can place a seal at the same time as casting a rasengan. As soon as this seal is placed, I can not see any way at all that A could keep up with/block/follow Minato - fight is pretty much over with one rasengan (if that alone doesn't beat A).

[Naruto2011]

^^ yep exactly as I have been trying to explain, minato has simply too much going for him

[ninjabot]

You do realize that you're making a fuss for nothing, since my original statement was directed to another one, right?
Still, whatever floats your boat

You said "you guys say he's slow". Plural. That's all-inclusive. I'm making a fuss because your ingenius strategy seems to be "say one thing, then take it right back once proven wrong". I'm hoping once you see how often you do it you'll stop.

A huge gash? all I see is a little cut that was regenerated in a second, if this is a huge gash then my friend you and I have a different perception of the meaning of the word. Still, even that "huge gash" was provoked to him by at least 3 Wind Ninjutsu user, so resisting 3 jutsus with only a "huge gash" proves that his body is way more resilient than normal.
If you remember, Temari in part 1 cut a forest with the jutsu that provoked that "huge gash".
As for the second, you're desperate to grab at something that can dispute the truth:
his base body is resilient, the Raiton Armour improves that. But it says his body, not his body clad in Raiton Armour.
Here ( thank Shaunlim by the way ) again, do you see any mention of Raiton Armour?
Even after the manga says so, if you want to think otherwise well... Your problem, not mine

His body was repairing off-panel from the attack (you even see him behind a dustcloud as it's happening and the surrounding ninja are watching in amazement). It's huge alright. Not in girth, but in length (from his collar bone down his bicept to his sternum. It covers practically his entire torso). As for his naturally tough body, once again, both you and Shaunlim fail to realize that it's his armor that's known as "the impenetrable shield". Sure he's praised for his strong body, but it's never once claimed to be impervious to harm, however his Raiton Armor IS. It's called unbreakable. His armor. Not his body. I tasked you to prove that he was revered for his strong body's ability to endure injury as opposed to his Raiton Armor rather than in addition to. You failed. Let it go.

I'm getting tecnical here, but you do realize that, even if that was the case, an Hachibi's limb is likely way more strong and resilient than a normal octopus limb?
It resisted a Bijuudama from the Kyuubi if you remember right, granted it was one shot only. Still, if it was only flesh, that Bijuudama would've destroyed it right here.
And no, I'm not implying that Minato's kunai is stroger than a Bijuudama so don't make a fuss out of it. I'm simply stating facts

No. That was a full-form Hachibi transformation. You're still trying to attribute strengths from full-form Hachibi tentacles to the regular partial-transformation that he used to try to save A. The one that he used to attack Minato can not defend against a Bijuudama. He'd be obliterated.

I'm not talking about the sea of paper bombs, I'm talking about the first time, when he lost an arm and part of his mask thanks to Konan's own paperbombs.
He used Izanagi only on the 10 minutes explosions

My point is that he didn't rely on his own body's resiliency to survive the bombs. First he used intangibility, then he tried absorbtion. Then he tried Izanagi. The argument was that his body isn't any more durable than the average shinobi (and possibly weaker, thanks to him being a shell of his former self).

You're twisting manga facts for your own liking. Of course he used the one on the tree, why wouldn't he use it?

Don't deflect: the point is for you to think up a believable counter for him not having the battlefield prepared for his victory from the get go. If Sasuke had a thunderstorm already started when he walked into a fight with Itachi, and then dropped a Kirin on him from the get-go, people would complain that he only won so easily thanks to having the battlefield already prepared for him to use it. Ditto for everyone trying to claim that Konan is S rank because she had both prep time and prior knowledge against Tobi. If she didn't have the battlefield prepared as such she never would've done as well as she did against Tobi.
I'm not saying he should'nt use it. I'm saying that it was the situation that kept him alive only. He never would've had that option if he had to draw the kunai to begin with.

Minato isn't getting off the hook. I don't care how much you love him.

We already saw that he can teleport even with a single kunai, and if you think that pulling and throwing a Kunai takes more than one second ( it takes way less, they're super-human ), then you're believing than Minato and any other ninja are noobs.

You forget the level of speed in Raikage's employ. Look at his close he was to him before he managed to teleport. If he can close THAT much of a distance, and get THAT close to one-shotting him without Minato taking time to make any movements whatsoever, how the hell does he survive when he HAS to make movements? Answer this or concede that you have no viable argument.
And the REAL kicker? A managed to go from no Raiton Armor, to Raiton Armor, AND get infront of Chakra Mode Naruto in the blink of an eye when he tried to run past him. There's no way in hell Minato could draw and throw one or more kunai faster than Chakra Mode Naruto can run. But I'm supposed to believe he can do so faster than A can move?

And way more, why Ee here should not wait for Yondaime? You said so yourself, he was cautious of Yondaime. How he magically knows that he can't do anything more? And more so, leaving Yondaime without a kunai is a clear example on your part that you wanted to impede the fight, since the way I see it you like to think that Minato can't reach for a kunai, and is dumb enough to not have one ready against another ninja.

He doesn't. Any ninja fighting a ninja for the first time would be cautious, especially if they were a kage. Secondly, don't pull the "it's unfair you won't give Minato a kunai already in his hand! You're biased!" bull. Not only does Minato not have his kunai already out (no handicaps), but Raikage doesn't have his Raiton Armor active, meaning it's a fair start for the both of them.
I love that you think I have to give Minato a handicap for him to win though. That was the entire point of this thread: to prove that he can't beat A without prep.

Granted, this argument doesn't hold any weight and all since only you seem to believe that, but hey, it was a good try on your part.
And all this rage against Yondaime I don't really understand it, you seems to have pleasure in bashing him, for reasons I don't understand, but still

No one's bashing him. I never insulted him once. I'm simply forcing his fans to accept the limitations of his abilities. And if that's considered bashing then you love him WAY to much to be objective here. It's embarrasing.

You said so yourself with the whole "Is an A rank jutsu", my friend.
You didn't imply it, you outright said so.
And regarding the Armour, where do you take the idea that a single hit would make the Armour disappear? The RasenShuriken set it off since it covered all of the Third's body, a Rasengan don't do that extensive of a damage. Fact is, if Raiton armour would've protected him then the Rasengan would not do any damage at all, not even redirecting the arm.

That's not a fact in the slightest. And where did I ever say one hit would take the armor down? You said that the Rasengan took his Raiton Armor off of his arm. I said that's a lie, because you see it in your own manga scan, aswell as the fact that if the armor wasn't on his hand, he couldn't perform Jigoku Nukite, as he uses the Raiton Armor on his arm to perform it. Likewise, the Rasengan DIDN'T do any damage at all, it simply moved his arm. you see no injury on his arm from the Rasengan clashing. At all.

You said so yourself, the attacks works in a different way.
The fact that Chidori failed don't make the Rasengan automatically fail, since piercing is not the best damage dealer, or the best option here.

Yes it does, and yes it is. First, the Rasengan has to grind into the opponent to deal full damage. Meaning you have to stay close range, grinding over and over until it finally pushes through. With a Chidori however you just pick up speed and clash. That's all. The more speed, the harder the blow. You don't have to leave the Chidori punctured into the enemy inorder to make it do it's full damage, you just need that one instant strike.
Minato will not only need to hit A with his Rasengan, but he'll have to sit there pushing it against an opponent who is perfectly capable of turning and backhanding him as it's trying it's best to push through his armor. It defeats the purpose of Hiraishin, which is to get in and get out instantly. Even if several seconds of constant grind from a basic Rasengan could (it can't) break through Raiton Armor, he'd have to abort the attack to prevent himself from getting grabbed by A, or smashed with a glancing blow. It's a practice of futility.

If that would be the case why Chidori don't cut the Rasengan in half? Simply put, a Rasengan may even prove more efficent against the Raiton Armour, who are you to say that it would not? And the whole "boost for speed" it made me laugh, since it was never ever used other than Sasuke vs Gaara.

Sorry champ, but that's not how science works. They don't have to tell us it's happening for it to be happening. Aslong as Sasuke's running at an opponent at blinding speed, the thrusting attack he uses is GOING to hit harder. SpeedxMass=Force. As for why Chidori didn't cut the Rasengan in half, it's because the Rasengan grinds away at the Chidori before they both lose their shape and blow up, unable to sustain the high level of shape manipulation necessary to keep the jutsu's formed. Instead they turn into one big mass of chakra that combines both attacks. The Raiton Armor takes a different shape. It's just a giant cloak. It doesn't grind away at the attacks that hit it, it likely only vibrates (since it's raiton) or just push outward, or maybe even only acts as a solid shape.

[quote]he cut an horn and that makes him tough as his father?
Good lord, and then you accuse me of making up statements. Still it was the same flashback that I remembered, he needed his father to fight Hachibi. Point is, I'm not saying that Ee is weak or anything, I'm saying that power didn't matter against Hiraishin and a Rasengan to the face. Simple as that [quote]
No, that's not what makes him as good as his father. It's the fact that both he and his father always had help when they stopped the Hachibi, where as his father fought it to a draw and was seriously injured, but A managed to take it down so they could heal it by karate chopping his horn off WITHOUT being defeated. Being able to do the same thing his father did makes him on his father's level.

I see no real way that A can deal with Minato once he has set up kunai for his Hiraishin technique. Minato's reflexes are just too good.

This is the problem: how does he get kunai set up, if they aren't already set up? You can't possibly believe Minato could've drawn kunai and thrown them in the time it took for A to get less than an inch away from his nose do you? If so, I'd love to see something in the manga that supports this.

And for the 100th time, Bee attempting to stop that kunai means nothing, because he has no way to accurately guage the strength of the attack to begin with. The only thing Bee knew was:

1: Minato was a Hokage, thus, the strongest ninja in his village.
2: Minato somehow managed to defeat armies on his own. He had no idea how, he just knew he did it. Maybe he was strong enough to cut through the armor. Maybe he wasn't. All he knew was he was trying to, and he had to do something.
3: He is A's partner. He has an obligation to attempt to save his partner no matter what the opponent is attempting. It's just like when Darui protects A from Sasuke's sword when he first attempts to cut him at the beginning of their fight. We saw undeniable proof that the sword couldn't cut through A's raiton armor, and yet Darui still chose to stop the attack. Why? Because it was HIS JOB.

Now please, stop with with "Bee knew the attack would hurt him because he's a psychic" nonsense. It's unproveable and silly.

[zimbardo]

This is the problem: how does he get kunai set up, if they aren't already set up? You can't possibly believe Minato could've drawn kunai and thrown them in the time it took for A to get less than an inch away from his nose do you? If so, I'd love to see something in the manga that supports this.

Perhaps this is a misunderstanding. I don't think that he needs to set up all those kunai as he did before for hiraishin to be used. He just needs to throw one kunai at A (which I am guessing A will want to dodge?), and then teleport to the kunai in motion. If A decides to tank the kunai, it's still not an issue as Minato teleports to the general vicinity of the kunai, not the kunai itself - thus still a dodge of the attack.
Even if he doesn't have time to throw a kunai (unlikely going by how long it takes him to draw and throw one - and that his reactions ridiculous), he still has the reactions and speed to dodge A anyway.

------------------------ edit--------------------------
Sorry, didn't get the panel you were specifically mentioning.
Yes, in this panel, Minato was taken aback by A's speed. He had heard that A was quick, he just didn't expect him to be so quick. This still didn't stop him dodging the attack.
Now before you state that he already had a kunai there to teleport to, the fact that he could react means that he could react to, and therefore potentially dodge it via basic movement also. It's just that teleporting to a Kunai gives him a greater gap between him and A - therefore it gives him more room for prediction/movement if necessary. It was more tactically viable at that time to generate a greater gap between him and A, especially given A's impulse to charge straight in.
To solidify this point, have you ever seen Minato looking like he couldn't calmly dodge A following this surprise burst of speed? Sure, he had kunai already set up, but Sasuke could dodge from a much closer distance - Also using just his sharingan prediction doesn't equal ability to dodge - speed is necessary also. Sasuke has his sharingan, Minato has superior reflexes. Minato is also considerably faster than Sasuke.

----------------end of edit-------------------

And for the 100th time, Bee attempting to stop that kunai means nothing, because he has no way to accurately guage the strength of the attack to begin with. The only thing Bee knew was:

1: Minato was a Hokage, thus, the strongest ninja in his village.
2: Minato somehow managed to defeat armies on his own. He had no idea how, he just knew he did it. Maybe he was strong enough to cut through the armor. Maybe he wasn't. All he knew was he was trying to, and he had to do something.
3: He is A's partner. He has an obligation to attempt to save his partner no matter what the opponent is attempting. It's just like when Darui protects A from Sasuke's sword when he first attempts to cut him at the beginning of their fight. We saw undeniable proof that the sword couldn't cut through A's raiton armor, and yet Darui still chose to stop the attack. Why? Because it was HIS JOB.

Now please, stop with with "Bee knew the attack would hurt him because he's a psychic" nonsense. It's unproveable and silly.

Few points:
Firstly - not once did I say Bee was psychic. Him wanting to protect A, as a teammate, is entirely justifiable for him to step in. What I am saying is that A thanked Bee. A is not the kind of guy to thank worthless things, he would have probably made a snide comment about Bee's help not being needed - if it hadn't of been.
Secondly - are you flat out stating that a rasengan wouldn't do damage to A? It's not like Minato holds back from this move much.

--------------------another edit as don't want to make another reply with just this-------------------------------

This is a huge speculation, but this got into my mind. A funny way to kill Raikage could be this Jutsu. With great timing he could use this space/time Jutsu when Raikage is rushing at him and Minato just ends the Jutsu while only half of the Raikage is "inside" of it. Fatality... flawless victory.

Just realized how useful this move would be to Minato once he has set up at least one kunai/seal. Although A is a beast in close combat, his method of closing the distance seems very direct. By this I mean he charges at his opponent, relying on his superior speed to beat them, and doesn't use any ninjutsu or genjutsu to create an opening. Using this move, Minato could send A anywhere - charging into trees, charging in the wrong direction, etc. - This would give Minato even more openings then he would necessarily need, and would make A have to constantly be on his guard about getting close to Minato (not a good situation to be in for a heavy close combat fighter!).

[syx]

Raikage isn't going to blitz Minato, because each of them have knowledge of each other. Raikage knows that he can probably blitz Minato and Minato knows how fast the Raikage is.

So the instant when the fight starts or both of them are realizing who they are fighting, that's the instant where...

- ...Raikage is definitely prepared to use his Raiton clad to blitz Minato
- ...Minato is definitely prepared to use Shunshin no Jutsu to keep his distance and throw his tags around the battlefield

Conclusion -> Minato will be able to place tags.

How could/would Minato harm Raikage? I think Minatos Rasengan could harm Raikage, not kill or handicap him but more Rasengan would do significant damage to his body.

This is a huge speculation, but this got into my mind. A funny way to kill Raikage could be this Jutsu. With great timing he could use this space/time Jutsu when Raikage is rushing at him and Minato just ends the Jutsu while only half of the Raikage is "inside" of it. Fatality... flawless victory.

And there is still Raikages statement:
"We fought many times. There was never a man that could suprass him."

You can't compare this statement to Itachis. Raikage has no reason to lie, while the Manga already told us that the whole life of Itachi was a big lie.

[Uchiha_Blood]

You said "you guys say he's slow". Plural. That's all-inclusive. I'm making a fuss because your ingenius strategy seems to be "say one thing, then take it right back once proven wrong". I'm hoping once you see how often you do it you'll stop.

Weren't you the one that said "Yondaime is fast but Ee is faster with his Raiton Armour"? And now you're making a fuss because I said something that it doesn't concern you. If you say that Yondaime is slow then yes, my statement is also for you, since you can't prove that Yondaime isn't slow, even without Hiraishin

His body was repairing off-panel from the attack (you even see him behind a dustcloud as it's happening and the surrounding ninja are watching in amazement). It's huge alright. Not in girth, but in length (from his collar bone down his bicept to his sternum. It covers practically his entire torso). As for his naturally tough body, once again, both you and Shaunlim fail to realize that it's his armor that's known as "the impenetrable shield". Sure he's praised for his strong body, but it's never once claimed to be impervious to harm, however his Raiton Armor IS. It's called unbreakable. His armor. Not his body. I tasked you to prove that he was revered for his strong body's ability to endure injury as opposed to his Raiton Armor rather than in addition to. You failed. Let it go.

Instead of making statements, show us a manga scan where his Raiton Armous is praised. We showed more than one instance in which the Third's body is praised to be the strongest, not his Raiton Armour.
I proved it with manga scans and facts, you proved it with your biased opinion. Which one failed?

No. That was a full-form Hachibi transformation. You're still trying to attribute strengths from full-form Hachibi tentacles to the regular partial-transformation that he used to try to save A. The one that he used to attack Minato can not defend against a Bijuudama. He'd be obliterated.

See here, the tentacle has the same dimension of the one Bee used, and is a tentacle. As always, don't base on your assumption and stick with manga facts, please.
Please prove me that I'm wrong, when all you're doing is making assumptions without even a manga scan.
I praise you for your immagination though

My point is that he didn't rely on his own body's resiliency to survive the bombs. First he used intangibility, then he tried absorbtion. Then he tried Izanagi. The argument was that his body isn't any more durable than the average shinobi (and possibly weaker, thanks to him being a shell of his former self).

Of course he didn't use his own body resilience, but if he had a weak body why did he survive, that is what I'm saying.
When I said that his body is stronger than a normal one? Nowhere, one of your many assumptions I'm afraid.
Still, it proves that a single Rasengan can cripple a "normal body"

Don't deflect: the point is for you to think up a believable counter for him not having the battlefield prepared for his victory from the get go. If Sasuke had a thunderstorm already started when he walked into a fight with Itachi, and then dropped a Kirin on him from the get-go, people would complain that he only won so easily thanks to having the battlefield already prepared for him to use it. Ditto for everyone trying to claim that Konan is S rank because she had both prep time and prior knowledge against Tobi. If she didn't have the battlefield prepared as such she never would've done as well as she did against Tobi.
I'm not saying he should'nt use it. I'm saying that it was the situation that kept him alive only. He never would've had that option if he had to draw the kunai to begin with.

Minato isn't getting off the hook. I don't care how much you love him.

Point is, having a single kunai is enought for Yondaime to win, pure and simple. It is you, and you alone that thinks that Yondaime can't grab even one kunai, or can't evade Ee, simply because you think that Ee can do everything in less than a second while Yondaime whould foolishly stand still and let him do the things.
Playing your game, we already see how far Yondaime's Shunshin can go in an istant, even faster than Ee, since he would have to activate Raiton Armour and Shunshin to Minato. Worst case scenario, Yondaime would create some distance with a Shunshin and grab a kunai and puff! All your arguments are invalid.
And before you go all emotional and angry on me, remember Kakashi gaiden, and how fast and far Yondaime traveled with a shunshin. Again, manga facts

You forget the level of speed in Raikage's employ. Look at his close he was to him before he managed to teleport. If he can close THAT much of a distance, and get THAT close to one-shotting him without Minato taking time to make any movements whatsoever, how the hell does he survive when he HAS to make movements? Answer this or concede that you have no viable argument.
And the REAL kicker? A managed to go from no Raiton Armor, to Raiton Armor, AND get infront of Chakra Mode Naruto in the blink of an eye when he tried to run past him. There's no way in hell Minato could draw and throw one or more kunai faster than Chakra Mode Naruto can run. But I'm supposed to believe he can do so faster than A can move?

Again, you assume that all Yondaime can do is stand still and do nothing, while Ee can do whatever he wants. I already answered and presented more than one possibility:
-grab a kunai and throw it ( it would take a second at best ) thus evading Ee
-Shunshining ( ugh! ) away to buy a little time and grab a kunai while Ee comes running. Before you piss yourself in anger, please note that Ee was on Naruto since he was running past him, not from him:
Ee didn't have to cover a great distance, since he intercepted Naruto, while Yondaime would be running from him, at a good deal of speed

He doesn't. Any ninja fighting a ninja for the first time would be cautious, especially if they were a kage. Secondly, don't pull the "it's unfair you won't give Minato a kunai already in his hand! You're biased!" bull. Not only does Minato not have his kunai already out (no handicaps), but Raikage doesn't have his Raiton Armor active, meaning it's a fair start for the both of them.
I love that you think I have to give Minato a handicap for him to win though. That was the entire point of this thread: to prove that he can't beat A without prep.

Ee said that they fought many times, and he never came on top. They seem to know each other, so probably they've already fight. Again, since Yondaime was known as the strongest ( Ee said so himself ) and a genious, do you think that Ee would throw away all cautions?
Yes, very realistic. Very very realistic, bravo

No one's bashing him. I never insulted him once. I'm simply forcing his fans to accept the limitations of his abilities. And if that's considered bashing then you love him WAY to much to be objective here. It's embarrasing.

Good grief, reread what you wrote and have the dignity to admit that you're souding like an hypocrite.
No offence, but one thing is saying "I'm giving it to A, but Minato could pretty much win if not for his limited fire-power", and the other is saying "A stomps, Minato loses because he is slow and can't even touch him".
Add to that the fact that you continue to use petty insults and you'll see exactly what you're doing, my friend

That's not a fact in the slightest. And where did I ever say one hit would take the armor down? You said that the Rasengan took his Raiton Armor off of his arm. I said that's a lie, because you see it in your own manga scan, aswell as the fact that if the armor wasn't on his hand, he couldn't perform Jigoku Nukite, as he uses the Raiton Armor on his arm to perform it. Likewise, the Rasengan DIDN'T do any damage at all, it simply moved his arm. you see no injury on his arm from the Rasengan clashing. At all.

I didn't say that the Rasengan took his Raiton Armor off of his arm, please, as usual, don't make assumptions on your own.
I said that the Rasengan got through and impacted on his arm, thus redirecting the strike. Going through doesn't involve the disactivation as you seem to think, since Sasuke's Chidori got through and the Armour was still in place.
It didn't do damage because the Third's body was that hard and resilient, simple as that. He received a little damage from a Rasen Shuriken, after all

Yes it does, and yes it is. First, the Rasengan has to grind into the opponent to deal full damage. Meaning you have to stay close range, grinding over and over until it finally pushes through. With a Chidori however you just pick up speed and clash. That's all. The more speed, the harder the blow. You don't have to leave the Chidori punctured into the enemy inorder to make it do it's full damage, you just need that one instant strike.
Minato will not only need to hit A with his Rasengan, but he'll have to sit there pushing it against an opponent who is perfectly capable of turning and backhanding him as it's trying it's best to push through his armor. It defeats the purpose of Hiraishin, which is to get in and get out instantly. Even if several seconds of constant grind from a basic Rasengan could (it can't) break through Raiton Armor, he'd have to abort the attack to prevent himself from getting grabbed by A, or smashed with a glancing blow. It's a practice of futility.

And yet I already said and proved than the strongest Chidori possible is the equivalent of a normal Rasengan. And the whole drilling in time is laughable, when did the Rasengan took more than one second to do damage?
Naruto hits, the target flies, simple as that. Its not like he's continously drilling through, waiting until the enemy is finished. Again, if Sasuke's Chidori got through, is safe to assume that Yondaime's Rasengan can too

Sorry champ, but that's not how science works. They don't have to tell us it's happening for it to be happening. Aslong as Sasuke's running at an opponent at blinding speed, the thrusting attack he uses is GOING to hit harder. SpeedxMass=Force. As for why Chidori didn't cut the Rasengan in half, it's because the Rasengan grinds away at the Chidori before they both lose their shape and blow up, unable to sustain the high level of shape manipulation necessary to keep the jutsu's formed. Instead they turn into one big mass of chakra that combines both attacks. The Raiton Armor takes a different shape. It's just a giant cloak. It doesn't grind away at the attacks that hit it, it likely only vibrates (since it's raiton) or just push outward, or maybe even only acts as a solid shape.

Again, Sasuke's running at blinding speed and all things is equal of a normal Rasengan. Why? Because Sasuke already runned ad blinding speed and delivered a Chidori to Naruto while, slow and dumb as he is, he used his Rasengan on him, cancelling each others jutsu.
And again, you assume much claiming how Raiton Armour works. Even if it vibrates, it would very well make the Chidori lose a good part of his cutting power, thus the little wound that Sasuke did to him. Impressive all the same, but claiming that the Raiton Armour would stop the Rasengan as it semi-stopped the Chidori only because you think so, without facts, is a little sad, since it can't be proven. Alas, saying that nothing can penetrate the Raiton Armour based on what you believe is imho laughable, since then Ee himself wouldn't praise Yondaime that much.
How Yondaime survived if they fought many times? Ee didn't say that Yondaime runned away, but that they fought, simple as that

No, that's not what makes him as good as his father. It's the fact that both he and his father always had help when they stopped the Hachibi, where as his father fought it to a draw and was seriously injured, but A managed to take it down so they could heal it by karate chopping his horn off WITHOUT being defeated. Being able to do the same thing his father did makes him on his father's level.

The Third managed to stall him alone, Ee could not.
Ee not being defeated it means that Ee is strong enough to go toe to toe alongside his father and many others that stopped it with chains with the Hachibi. Ee didn't tank a bijuudama or nothing, he hitted the beast when it was immobile.
Hardly something to boast about in terms of his resistance, but it speaks volumes about his strenght

[ninjabot]

Now before you state that he already had a kunai there to teleport to, the fact that he could react means that he could react to, and therefore potentially dodge it via basic movement

Gonna have to stop you right there. Being able to see an attack coming isn't the same as being able to dodge it, especially when the jutsu you need to use to dodge it requires that your kunai or tag already be placed. It'd be different if Minato could teleport anywhere at anytime with no prior preperation. That's simply not the case. Sasuke could see Lee coming with his Sharingan and still got kicked around like a ragdoll. Ditto when he fought against Bee's swords. Minato could see A coming, but he has to rely on his body's movement alone if he has no tags or kunai out yet. And you'll never convince me that he can perform the motions of:

Reach into pouch
Grab kunai
Throw kunai
Teleport

...all during the instant that A is shunshin'ing toward him to feed him a Raiton covered knuckle sandwich.

Secondly - are you flat out stating that a rasengan wouldn't do damage to A? It's not like Minato holds back from this move much.

Flat out. Explicitly. If a Sage Mode Rasengan from Naruto can't break thorugh Raiton Armor then a basic Rasengan from Minato has no chance. Even if you compare the (neglegable) damage done to A's chest from Sasuke's Chidori.

- ...Raikage is definitely prepared to use his Raiton clad to blitz Minato
- ...Minato is definitely prepared to use Shunshin no Jutsu to keep his distance and throw his tags around the battlefield

Conclusion -> Minato will be able to place tags.

How do you figure this, when it takes considerably more time to pull out kunai and throw them than it takes for Raikage to blitz Minato? Are you implying that Minato's shunshin is comperable to Raikage's? Naruto used Shunshin during Chakra Mode to try to run past A while he didn't even have his Raiton Armor active and A simply activated it mid-shunshin and cut Naruto off at the pass, punching him away. Naruto blocked it, but that's all he could do at the time. And while Naruto's max speed is faster than Raikage's max speed, the fact that both ninja have shown regular shunshin speed beyond Minato's.