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Thread: Members of the Uzumaki clan

  1. #181
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    All Kakashi's Gaiden mentions is skirmishes all around, but we're talking about actual war battles, which was between those three.
    Not when they're merely drawn on and can easily be changed at a whim, like we see during the battle with Pain.
    It couldn't have been the second War. Jiraiya didn't meet and train them until the Second War had already ended.
    Madara didn't die young considering he was already middle age when the villages had just been formed, before going off to do his own thing. And Kabuto specifically stated that he returned Madara back to his prime.
    Ok so the lines respect time in ALL instances and ages except for the time he trains Nagato - really logical ... Kishi could have messed up in timeline, which is most likely true, because I doubt he remembers how he drew J-Man.

    J-Man met them when the war was ending - they could have been wrapping things for many years as it happens ... its not like Hanzou saying hey Sannins you're good ended thing, especially since it wasn't his war. We will know soon enough how and when Madara died ...

    Actually battles in the 3rd war must have been between all 5 countries as we've seen Minato and A's fight ...
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  2. #182
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    I fail to see how the lines affect any sort of timeline at all. By that logic, Orochimaru left the village before Jiraiya began training Minato, which makes no sense seeing as he was still around just before Minato was chosen for Hokage.

    The Sannins were returning to Konoha when they met the Ame Orphans and Jiraiya choose to stay with them. They wouldn't have been leaving and Jiraiya couldn't have taken three years off and then return to Konoha if the war was still going on. And the incident with Kumo was a separate skirmish, as it didn't end until well after the Third War had ended.

  3. #183
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Nagato was trained first.
    He met that at the end of the 2nd War.

    The war that Minato fought in before he became Hokage was the 3rd.

    I create a timeline 3 years ago, that still stands right now, I believe.
    You can see it here if you want: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...06#post1363406
    Last edited by THM Nindo; July 30, 2012 at 01:39 PM.


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  5. #184
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    Nagato was trained first.
    He met that at the end of the 2nd War.

    The war that Minato fought in before he became Hokage was the 3rd.

    I create a timeline 3 years ago, that still stands right now, I believe.
    You can see it here if you want: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...06#post1363406
    I'm not understanding your reasoning. The Ame orphans were 13 when Jiraiya left them, while Minato was about ten when he would have been taken under Jiraiya's wing. Yet during the Third war, Minato is obviously older then the orphans were. It makes more sense that Minato came before Nagato. Not to mention, why would it take a decade for Minato to read his teacher's book? Makes more sense that Jiraiya had recently finished it. And then there's the fact that Nagato became "Pain" and defeated Hanzou recently enough that the outside world didn't know there was a civil war going on, much less that it had been won.
    Last edited by Rikudou King; July 30, 2012 at 10:36 PM.

  6. #185
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I'm not understanding your reasoning. The Ame orphans were 13 when Jiraiya left them, while Minato was about ten when he would have been taken under Jiraiya's wing. Yet during the Third war, Minato is obviously older then the orphans were. It makes more sense that Minato came before Nagato. Not to mention, why would it take a decade for Minato to read his teacher's book? Makes more sense that Jiraiya had recently finished it. And then there's the fact that Nagato became "Pain" and defeated Hanzou recently enough that the outside world didn't know there was a civil war going on, much less that it had been won.
    from my understanding is that the civil war had been over for quite some time, and it was due to the fact that the hidden rain dose not share information that people were unaware of hanzos death.

    And is it safe to use the red marks on jiriyas face to indicate time/age...
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  8. #186
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I fail to see how the lines affect any sort of timeline at all. By that logic, Orochimaru left the village before Jiraiya began training Minato, which makes no sense seeing as he was still around just before Minato was chosen for Hokage.

    The Sannins were returning to Konoha when they met the Ame Orphans and Jiraiya choose to stay with them. They wouldn't have been leaving and Jiraiya couldn't have taken three years off and then return to Konoha if the war was still going on. And the incident with Kumo was a separate skirmish, as it didn't end until well after the Third War had ended.
    We don't know if it was a separate skirmish ... you don't accept it as a part of the 3rd war - which makes more sence as it was said it was between all countries ... but then you can't accept that the fight you mentioned between Konoha, Rock and Sand village was a skirmish ... it was never mentioned that was a third war ... it could have been end of the 2nd ... who knows?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I'm not understanding your reasoning. The Ame orphans were 13 when Jiraiya left them, while Minato was about ten when he would have been taken under Jiraiya's wing. Yet during the Third war, Minato is obviously older then the orphans were. It makes more sense that Minato came before Nagato. Not to mention, why would it take a decade for Minato to read his teacher's book? Makes more sense that Jiraiya had recently finished it. And then there's the fact that Nagato became "Pain" and defeated Hanzou recently enough that the outside world didn't know there was a civil war going on, much less that it had been won.
    Minato read the published version of the book who knows when it was published?

    Also there might be an error made by Kishi .. but the timeline Nindo made fits very well
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

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  10. #187
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    from my understanding is that the civil war had been over for quite some time, and it was due to the fact that the hidden rain dose not share information that people were unaware of hanzos death.

    And is it safe to use the red marks on jiriyas face to indicate time/age...
    There were Ame ninjas in the Chuunin Exam from Hanzo's faction, so at the very least Hanzo would have still been alive three years ago. And I pointed out an example of why the lines can't be used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    We don't know if it was a separate skirmish ... you don't accept it as a part of the 3rd war - which makes more sence as it was said it was between all countries ... but then you can't accept that the fight you mentioned between Konoha, Rock and Sand village was a skirmish ... it was never mentioned that was a third war ... it could have been end of the 2nd ... who knows?
    We do know it was a separate skirmish, because Konoha and Kumo making peace was done four years after the Kyuubi attack and lead to the whole Hyuuga situation. Meanwhile Minato became Hokage after the Third war had ended. And again, it couldn't have been during the Second War because the Sannins were heading home. In addition, for it to fit, that would mean the Second War had to have been going on for 10+ more years after they fought Hanzo, and that's impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    Minato read the published version of the book who knows when it was published?

    Also there might be an error made by Kishi .. but the timeline Nindo made fits very well
    Pretty recently if he was just getting to read it then.

    Or the lines simply don't matter. And not really. If we presume that the Ame orphans were somehow trained before Minato, then that means that we would have to add 15+ years onto everyone and that doesn't work.
    Last edited by Rikudou King; July 31, 2012 at 12:04 PM.

  11. #188
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I'm not understanding your reasoning. The Ame orphans were 13 when Jiraiya left them, while Minato was about ten when he would have been taken under Jiraiya's wing. Yet during the Third war, Minato is obviously older then the orphans were. It makes more sense that Minato came before Nagato.
    Just for reference:

    This is Minato during the 3rd war:
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v27/c239/6.html

    This is the Ame Orphan during the 3rd war:
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v48/c446/10.html

    Seem pretty much the same to me.

    According to my timeline, Jiraiya would have gone home and start training Minato right after he left the Ame Orphans, which would make the Ame orphans a few years older than Minato.

    I do agree though, that if you look at them now (Konan, for example), she certainly look younger than people that would be Minato's age (Shikaku, etc).

    I already stated in my timeline, that the only thing I wasn't sure of, was the order of Jiraiya's training.
    Did he train Minato or Nagato first? I'm not sure yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Not to mention, why would it take a decade for Minato to read his teacher's book? Makes more sense that Jiraiya had recently finished it.
    I also pointed out in my timeline, that I found it odd that Minato read the book 12 years after it's publication.
    But the alternative, that he read it after Jiraiya came back and published it isn't good.

    - We know that Jiraiya finished the book 3 years after the 2nd great war.
    - We know that Minato fought during the 3rd great war and wasn't Hokage during that time.
    - We know that Minato was Hokage when he read the book and that it was only months before the Kyubbi attack.

    With those fact, for it to work, the 3rd great war would have to occur pretty much at the same time as the 2nd great war, or at least during the time Jiraiya was training Nagato, and that simply doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    And then there's the fact that Nagato became "Pain" and defeated Hanzou recently enough that the outside world didn't know there was a civil war going on, much less that it had been won.
    I verified, and you are right on that.

    Hanzou and Danzou tricked Akatsuki (when it was runned by an alive Yahiko) during the 3rd war (the same with Kakashi gaiden)

    After that the Rain Country was in a civil war between Hanzou and Pain for many years.
    It probably ended between part 1 and part 2.

    As you said, there was some of Hanzou guys in the Chunnin exams.
    Furthermore, the guy that Jirayia interogate inside the frog's belly says that they only won the civil war "recently".

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v40/c369/8.html

    But, I'm not sure how this whole Hanzou thing would really change my timeline?
    The fact that Pain killed Danzou only 1-3 years ago wouldn't really affect the order of Jiraiya's training.

    ------------------

    When I have more time, I'll look back into it.
    Not so much about the Hanzou stuff, it's more about their age (Konan vs Minato's generation) that bothers me.

    I will see if I made a mistake somewhere and might change my timeline.
    Last edited by THM Nindo; August 02, 2012 at 04:25 PM.


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    The question now is : which of those two loves, is the true one?!
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  12. #189
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    the fact that yahiko,konan and nagato(before GM) were all skillful enough to threaten the leaf and hanzou's people...says alot.
    that means minato was of no concern to nagato and co...because danzou would obviously not have had to get involved with hanzou.

  13. #190
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    Just for reference:

    This is Minato during the 3rd war:
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v27/c239/6.html

    This is the Ame Orphan during the 3rd war:
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v48/c446/10.html

    Seem pretty much the same to me.

    According to my timeline, Jiraiya would have gone home and start training Minato right after he left the Ame Orphans, which would make the Ame orphans a few years older than Minato.

    I do agree though, that if you look at them now (Konan, for example), she certainly look younger than people that would be Minato's age (Shikaku, etc).

    I already stated in my timeline, that the only thing I wasn't sure of, was the order of Jiraiya's training.
    Did he train Minato or Nagato first? I'm not sure yet...
    They do look similar, though I would say the Ame orphans appear more like Kakashi and Kurenai did during the Kyuubi attack, sizewise. And as you mention, Konan clearly doesn't look like she is 43 years old.

    But as I mentioned before, we know Minato graduated at the age of ten and was 25~29 when he became Hokage (was younger then 30 year old Kakashi when elected). We know the Third War began roughly 20 years ago (the time when Sasori left Suna and soon after killed the Third Kazekage, starting the Third War) and lasted about three to four years (Minato was Hokage a little under a year I believe). And 10 years before that the Second War was going on (Sasori began making puppets when he was five, after Sakumo killed his parents during the war). Even presuming that Sasori's parents died at the end of the war, that would only be seven years before the Third War began, which seems not enough time for Minato to be trained by Jiraiya and then take his own team of genins up to chuunins (would have had them for five years, Obito and Rin graduated at 9* and were 13 by the end of the Third War). In addition, as mentioned by someone before, around the time Kushina came to Konoha, Uzushio and the Uzumaki clan still existed and considering that so far all the students we've seen in a single class have been within the same age group, Kushina being in the same class as Minato likely meant that they were similar in age. So given this, Nagato's family had to have been scattered after Kushina came to Konoha and met Minato in the academy**.

    And while exactly a point on a timeline, when Nagato tells Naruto about what happen with Hanzou, he refers to the group as children***.

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    I also pointed out in my timeline, that I found it odd that Minato read the book 12 years after it's publication.
    But the alternative, that he read it after Jiraiya came back and published it isn't good.

    - We know that Jiraiya finished the book 3 years after the 2nd great war.
    - We know that Minato fought during the 3rd great war and wasn't Hokage during that time.
    - We know that Minato was Hokage when he read the book and that it was only months before the Kyubbi attack.

    With those fact, for it to work, the 3rd great war would have to occur pretty much at the same time as the 2nd great war, or at least during the time Jiraiya was training Nagato, and that simply doesn't make sense.
    From Jiraiya's comment, the book had been published and out for some time, so Minato didn't read it straight away. Between the time it would take a book to get published, Minato presumably being busy with his own students during this time, and then the eventual Third War, it could fit that Minato didn't have time til that point. Of course I realize it could work both ways, but I think that as Jiraiya's student, Minato would have had the opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    I verified, and you are right on that.

    Hanzou and Danzou tricked Akatsuki (when it was runned by an alive Yahiko) during the 3rd war (the same with Kakashi gaiden)

    After that the Rain Country was in a civil war between Hanzou and Pain for many years.
    It probably ended between part 1 and part 2.

    As you said, there was some of Hanzou guys in the Chunnin exams.
    Furthermore, the guy that Jirayia interogate inside the frog's belly says that they only won the civil war "recently".

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v40/c369/8.html

    But, I'm not sure how this whole Hanzou thing would really change my timeline?
    The fact that Pain killed Danzou only 1-3 years ago wouldn't really affect the order of Jiraiya's training.

    ------------------

    When I have more time, I'll look back into it.
    Not so much about the Hanzou stuff, it's more about their age (Konan vs Minato's generation) that bothers me.

    I will see if I made a mistake somewhere and might change my timeline.
    True, though odds are the civil war would have lasted the least amount of time, presumably after Nagato had gathered the other five Paths.


    * I decided Minato's genin team was formed when Obito and Rin graduated, since Kakashi graduated 3 years before his teammates.
    ** I have no idea where Karin would fit given she's much younger then either of them.
    *** Though this is countered by Chouji's comment about Yahiko looking 25~30.

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  15. #191
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    It's very possible he trained Minato first and Minato participated in the 2nd shinobi war, just not in Ame like Jiraiya and the Sannin did.

    The White Fang fought in this war as well, he killed Sasori's father in it. It's very likely that Minato could have fought under him on another front.

    And we can't say Minato would have been too young to fight at this point, because Itachi was 5 years old and he fought in the 3rd Shinobi War. Kakashi was 13 and had command over his own squads in the 3rd war.

    Also keep this in mind, if Jiraiya already trained his students and they were promoted, he would have no need to return for Konoha. Despite being lax with him as far as his duties, I doubt Sarturobi would have allowed him to fuck around in a shit hole of a country for three years if he was supposed to come home and train the villages latest prodigy.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  17. #192
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Krina29's Avatar
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    Re: Members of the Uzumaki clan

    quoting NarutoPedia
    ''Known Members
    Karin
    Nagato
    Nagato's Parents
    Uzumaki Clan Leader
    Kushina Uzumaki
    Mito Uzumaki
    Naruto Uzumaki ''
    Hope this helped

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