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Thread: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

  1. #1
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    Why is Yagi always making Deneve take the big byte. She always get torn up I tell you.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    obviouisly because she has the best regeneration ability out of 'the good guys' -> she can get most damage (without getting killed) = most tension, drama

    - when the good guys get torn apart too ,it makes it look realistic so - somebody has to get the hit
    - to make an impact on the reader and to show power of the enemy more damage on the good guy = better

    ->deneve = best choice

    if someone wanted to make it realistic as much as possible you may simply pick one of them (who gets to get injured) at random , then you would have to solve problems in the storyline like healing, retreating - all the uncomfortale stuff and to solve it you would either sacrifice pacing of the story or make someone really get killed or make some plotholes

    current situation in manga:

    as it is right now ghosts didnt get anything close to defeating blow.. - sure, they lost lot of immediate firepower but they as a team can get to full strength in no time.. if they retreat or finish the fight quickly

    so the question is what yagi has in mind?

    1 new AO strong as hell, awakening giving too much of a powerup
    results: ghost may lose some people permanently or the story will have to come with counter - more good guys (galatea please...), immediate retreat, AO killing each other, or Miria awakening (i dont like this it would be really cheap..)

    2 new AO strong but teamwork combos being on par too
    results:Hysteria will fall, ghost will recover maybe some permanent damage

    personaly i hold the opinion
    - ghost stand no chance against single new AO but should be able to do just fine against old AO
    - 2/3 new AO will fall
    -- one killed by other new AO
    -- one killed by either Clare or Priscila or ghost combo (rafutela, raki (would like to see him against AO.. (joke), miata, galatea) or at least permanently damaged
    - expecting the unexpected - either rubel or organization having new emergency counter (hurry-experiment or new power (like organization from mainland)
    - all new AO will not fall until later - i think we should get calming 2-3 chapters of establishing new positions.. (ghost regenerating, new training combos more claymores joining)

    biggest question for me is mainland i still give it 50% it doesnt exist, as far as Priscilla goes i think there will be quite mess in explaining what happened there with Clare and i dont think we will se anyone in there in their original form -> expecting new awakened forms of Clare and Priscilla more powerups etc

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  5. #3
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner SpeedyIX's Avatar
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    I'd say that Deneve seems to have rather bad perception compared to the other warriors, seeing as someone usually has to tell her to dodge incoming attacks.

    E: from powerful foes at least~

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    Don't forget that Deneve also uses her body and her Regeneration of it, to protect-save others as a shield. Such as saving Helen's life from the AF, had Deneve not placed her body between Helen and the AF, its attacks-tentacles would have penetrated past Helen's eye into her brain, likely killing her.

    Also, just like Clare's PYSA precision deception, Deneve intentionally allows herself to get damaged, as it causes her opponent to think she's been "subdued", however, her opponents often find themselves saying "oh ****!" she's Regenerating, too close now, and I can't dodge or parry her attack, "oh ****!"
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 26, 2012 at 02:22 AM.
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    Quote Originally Posted by spit View Post
    personaly i hold the opinion
    - ghost stand no chance against single new AO but should be able to do just fine against old AO
    It's mostly a matter of opinion, I guess, but I don't think the new AO are beyond the old AO's level at all. If anything, their lack of experience as awakened beings leaves them below said level. The whole logic about Hysteria, Cassandra and Roxanne being the top 3 number ones considers only those (female warriors) whose bodies were still "intact", not every number one there has ever been.
    I would bet on Isley and Riful versus a duo from the new AO... and I'm assuming Hysteria's damage output is below average, considering her focus on speed.

    The black wind begins to blow...
    Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    It would have been nice to see the AOs battling against each other, and even the two battles we do see (Isley vs Luciela and Riful vs Alicia) were lacking in showing us a meaningful outcome of whether one was superior to the other or if they were equal to each other, sighs.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member zushiko's Avatar
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    I think Deneve should have a title:
    Spoiler show

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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magus View Post
    It's mostly a matter of opinion, I guess, but I don't think the new AO are beyond the old AO's level at all. If anything, their lack of experience as awakened beings leaves them below said level. The whole logic about Hysteria, Cassandra and Roxanne being the top 3 number ones considers only those (female warriors) whose bodies were still "intact", not every number one there has ever been.
    I would bet on Isley and Riful versus a duo from the new AO... and I'm assuming Hysteria's damage output is below average, considering her focus on speed.
    i reread that part of manga and gotta admit you are right, there were not the 8 strongest, at least seems they were just 8 strongest from those easy to resurrect, my opinion of new AO dropped a little

    but wasnt the old AO the only #1 that awakened? if yes, then there is great probability new AO are much stronger

    ---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    It would have been nice to see the AOs battling against each other, and even the two battles we do see (Isley vs Luciela and Riful vs Alicia) were lacking in showing us a meaningful outcome of whether one was superior to the other or if they were equal to each other, sighs.
    now we can compare and discuss, but it wouldnt hurt to have some more data

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member number12michael's Avatar
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    The fact that there the 3 who's full body was at the Org. disposal dose not mean there weaker then the first AO. Roxanne for example could be way stronger then Lucelea but weaker then Isely. i do think that Roxanne and Hysteria are near the top of the list in terms of overall strength. but this is all speculation

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member killy-.-'s Avatar
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    I miss the old times when char got killed no matter how important they were, I reackon Deneve will be beheaded to cr8 more drama just to reg a copy of her in the next chapter ( just like earthwoms, cut in half regenerate the other missing part )

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Poor Deneve getting abuse all the time!

    Quote Originally Posted by killy-.- View Post
    I miss the old times when char got killed no matter how important they were, I reackon Deneve will be beheaded to cr8 more drama just to reg a copy of her in the next chapter ( just like earthwoms, cut in half regenerate the other missing part )
    unfortunately the old times you speak of dont exist... the only character that died was Teresa... even Irene could be still alive, and people like Noel and Sofia were nobody despite being #3,4)
    AOs died just to give place for new AOs, Galatea should be beheaded right after Witch's maw, the ruthless organization that didnt allow Teresa to kill evil(!) humans... tch where is it? now (not now.. back THEN 7years in the past) it is showing mercy to claymores that disobey it? ... even if you look at it - organization never really was what it was portrayed like - Rimuto doesnt give a shit about anything (certainly not humans), Rubel has his own agenda, Dae is in a completely different world, etc..

    im sorry but killing Teresa - far more useful than Galatea, is big plothole, and if you think deeply, there will be many other, particularly in first archs - but these plotholes are ok- if we didnt have thess plotholes - power going up and drama building wouldnt be possible (tell me do you honestly believe Teresa would be sent to kill normal yomas? dont make me laugh)

    but - what you were talking about - the reason that no one is really dying (in claymore or in other 'stupid' manga) - the reason is known (cant kill main character) and the only way to solve this is to make better story --> claymore doesnt have that good story then (before you say something beware it is my most fav manga)

    the story allowed for people to die because it was just a premise for the whole claymore... after Teresa arch past/premise was established its over with killings, people wont be dying for the sake of realism - ever...
    i could say it like this:
    to create story
    1 decide a character whose story it will be
    2 make a flashback arch
    you can kill whoever you want because this is just establishment - all real tragedy goes here (yes im exaggerating but common there is lots of truth in it)
    3 real story comes in, no one dies know

    do you want to see Deneve dead? i know it would be shock, tragedy, realistic and great experience, but you know it cant happen, if i had my own manga, i would kill only special characters that are meant to die too...

    the worst thing is that no one dies, yet the story moves on and now no none does anything - if someone watched prison break 4th season... my fav show, but for gods sake how could they drag so many pointless characters on and on... pure pain to watch

    right now we got rather pointless new characters (new AOs) i like them very, but the whole situation is quite a stretch and its starting to get ridiculous... you cant assign new roles to characters just like the story needs - thats very low and but THATs whats happening - Anastasia, Dietrich, whole ghost team, Miria, whole new current generation of claymores... (they dissappeared and i bet we just get one page explaining things and moving on - the whole point of revolution and Miria doing crazy idiotic heroics was pointless - so many people died (assuming most of them are dead(not the point)) and no oone even cares, where does Miria have to say about this??? , AND those deaths didnt make a difference nor were necessary! i could go on

    people in claymore starts to get they roles assigned too frequently for the plot to be realistic, if it is in order to induce drama, then ok (code geass... nonsence over nonsence but enjoyable - it will be forever my top1 anime) but you cant do realistic and drama both at once... until now claymore was realistic unpredictable, now it is dramatic and 'unpredictable'

    (we dont know whats gonna happen but we DO know whats not gonna happen)
    bad roles? -

    Anastasia - after making some hair her role ends so now they need her to make more hairs... i miss some more important factor for her to do then making hairs - she doesnt have a reason to be really there, remember her explanation - she just went along with ghosts... and others followed he just - because...

    Miria - drops down from ghosts leader to stubborn idiot, then comes out as most powerfull (slays whole generation) warrior only to have pointless death only to be miraculously not killed by everyone understanding something anyone cant understand even now, then she throws down organization - has big words , but barely wins against AF, then she comes as winner against gues who? Hysteria (which is in fact impossible) and after half-assed apology she is back to badass - she changed her motives quite conveniently there - who is she siding with ghosts? claymores? in the end she betrayes everyone, and she does it again after an apology (shall i awaken? wtf didnt she get it? apparently not)

    if ghosts are so righteous and all, why dont they even think about persuading new AOs (before awakening) to stop pointless fighting?, why Miria didn tell AOs what org does - i know these are just 'minor' bugs but its these details that make it believable

    things like this are piling up in claymore, and even though these last chapters are as enjoyable as ever for me, i still dont like this - i dont care even if half of main characters die, make it believable! because claymore is losing its main pillar - believability
    dont take me wrong the troll with Miria revived was great in terms of drama and enjoyment, but i think the story could be made much better to hold in one piece

    and for some reason i feel like claymore starts to get so much predictable, i mean yes, we dont know whats going to happen, but we know something like this: next chapter we will heal those 3 characters then we will see a bit of whats next, we should get explained how this new technique works, someone wass using the latest chapter and thats it.. i dont want this!

    we need more random chapters, more random flashback arcs, not flashbacks when you expect them - that so lame (new AO backstory - it should have been made 20-30 chapters ago), throw another Teresa arch in the next chapter!, change teresas name to Hysteria, after she dies mix it in current storyline, mix it some more and we got something interesting

    but every side story we have now is only for the sake of story 1 chapter ahead, that is a great mistake, we need revelations that will trow unexpected things in, only to reveal connections 5-10 chapter later, claymore is either at its end (with story) or it should end because going further like this - pure linearity - that is very boring
    Last edited by spit; February 22, 2012 at 04:11 PM.

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