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Thread: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Noonealive's Avatar
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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Yeah Kurapika wanted to test if the strongest guy aka Uvogin, was capable of breaking his chain at 100%. Thats why during the whole fight Kurapika told him stop being a bitch and go to full power.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sea Hunter's Avatar
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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zvane View Post
    now that I think about it, he wasn't sure if Chain Jail (only breakable by brute force, since it renders the target into a state of Zetzu) was going to work, so he tested it with Uvogin....plus, Uvo was a skilled fighter, so I'm guessing Kurapica couldn't chain him before
    This is correct, Kurapica tried many times during their fight but Ubogin kept dodging saying to himself "this chain is bad i can't let myself get caught in it" , the moment Kurapica took BBI he used In on his chain and cought Ubo, add to that Kurapica wanted to fight Ubo at full force to test his Emperor Time meaning his offence and defence vs a full Reinforcement user.

    So no the chain wasn't on Ubo before, the moment Kurapica wrapped it around Ubo he activated it.

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Breaking an arm isn't the same as defending successfully. If he didn't have the healing powers that would pretty much be game over there.

    Even in Emperor Time, because Kurapika's isn't a Reinforcement type naturally, he cannot be have as much power as Ubogin. There's nothing wrong with that scene. If you've two Reinforcement user it'd end up both doing no damage to each other. Kurapika clearly took damage. The fact he healed the damage later does not mean he didn't take damage.

    Also in the middle of that fight there was no opportunity for Kurapika to hide his chain anyway (it'd be way too suspicious). When Ubogin punched the ground to camoflauge himself, that also allowed Kurapika to hide his chains too.

    If you look at the numbers, basically Kurapika is 60% * 100% = 60%, which is pretty close to the modifier you get for being a Transform/Emission user (80% * 80% = 64%). You can actually verify 100% versus 64% does turn into 'breaking an arm' in the Razor arc. From that fight, we can tell the following:

    Gon's full output is roughly equal to Razor's full output.

    Hisoka is certainly no weaker than Gon in base power, so you can basically think of Razor versus Hisoka as one person with a modifier of 100% (Razor) versus 64% (Hisoka).

    Hisoka cannot guard against Razor's attack head on. Even when he deflect it with his special ability, he ends up breaking several fingers. Presumably he'd take even more damage if he didn't deflect Razor's attacks, and breaking an arm seems like the logical step up from breaking fingers.

    Another good example is Gon versus Knuckles (Emission). Knuckles again is certainly no weaker than Gon in base power, but a direct hit, even guarded correctly, still knocked him out.

    So Reinforcement against an equal opponent that's one away from Reinforcement pretty much results in serious damage for the opponent, even if they guarded correctly. That's why Reinforcement is pretty much the strongest school for fighting. Note that if you're more than 1 away, it's quite likely taking a hit just flat out kills you. Now how do you defeat a Reinforcement if you're not one? By making the guy take more damage through some other special ability compared to your broken arm. It's okay to lose an arm if the opponent loses his head, for example.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sea Hunter's Avatar
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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Well if you're not a Reinforcement user and fighting against one it's best to stay away in all cases, most non Reinforcement fighters we've seen have long ranged attacks / Hatsus so no even if your Reinforcement in 1 away it's best you don't try and tank an attack unless you're forced to..

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Or unless you're crazy and want a revenge on some organization that killed or your tribe. :O
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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    But couldn't Kurapika have attached Chain Jail to Ubo when he got those few hits in, as Ubo said it himself? I don't see the point of Kurapika wanting to "test" Ubo's full power, since he used Chain Jail's Zetsu effect so it doesn't matter what his full aura power is, only his physical strenght.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Noonealive's Avatar
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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Reinforcement users physical strength equates to how strong their aura is as well. Kurapika wanted Uvo to go to 100 since Kurpika is the type of person who would want to make sure there isn't any loopholes. He rather know something and be assured.. than know little and be paranoid.. in a sense.

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Even invisible attacks requires the enemy to be distracted in some way to succeed. For example take Kastro versus Hisoka, Hisoka bluffed and preformed the magic trick to distract Kastro so he can use his real attack. It implies that if he just tries to use his ability outright, it'll most likely be dodged somehow even if Kastro didn't see it.

    Likewise Kurapika's invisible chain still requires some kind of opening. Up until that point, Ubogin has no real opening. Even if Kurapika made the chains disappear in midfight, Ubogin is constantly moving so it still won't catch him. The first opportunity he had was when Ubogin stood still to gloat about his power. Kurapika also benefited from the dust Ubogin created, since this allows him to hide his chain without being noticed.

    For whatever reason, in HXH you can't have something like Dai-No-Daiboken's "Phantom Razor", an invisible sword that's just suspended in space waiting for an oppoent to cut their own head off when they accidentally walk over it. Even completely invisible attacks need some kind of opening or the opponent will still avoid it. You can't just hide a sword or a chain jail in space and wait until the enemy trips over it, probably because if this worked, it'd actually be a very powerful strategy.

    Finally, people should give credit to Ubogin. He got in the Big Bang Punch because he was able to create the opportunity for himself (used Zetsu + camo). It's not like Kurapika purposely want to get hit by a Big Bang Punch. The damage he took is considerable. If Ubogin didn't stop to gloat, Kurapika would probably end up losing the fight there (no way Ubogin will watch him fix his arm if he wasn't trapped). Him being able to take a Big Bang Punch isn't really useful information anyway, since all he has to know is whether he can hurt someone with his fist after he captured them in Chain Jail.

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Even invisible attacks requires the enemy to be distracted in some way to succeed. For example take Kastro versus Hisoka, Hisoka bluffed and preformed the magic trick to distract Kastro so he can use his real attack. It implies that if he just tries to use his ability outright, it'll most likely be dodged somehow even if Kastro didn't see it.

    Likewise Kurapika's invisible chain still requires some kind of opening. Up until that point, Ubogin has no real opening. Even if Kurapika made the chains disappear in midfight, Ubogin is constantly moving so it still won't catch him. The first opportunity he had was when Ubogin stood still to gloat about his power. Kurapika also benefited from the dust Ubogin created, since this allows him to hide his chain without being noticed.

    For whatever reason, in HXH you can't have something like Dai-No-Daiboken's "Phantom Razor", an invisible sword that's just suspended in space waiting for an oppoent to cut their own head off when they accidentally walk over it. Even completely invisible attacks need some kind of opening or the opponent will still avoid it. You can't just hide a sword or a chain jail in space and wait until the enemy trips over it, probably because if this worked, it'd actually be a very powerful strategy.

    Finally, people should give credit to Ubogin. He got in the Big Bang Punch because he was able to create the opportunity for himself (used Zetsu + camo). It's not like Kurapika purposely want to get hit by a Big Bang Punch. The damage he took is considerable. If Ubogin didn't stop to gloat, Kurapika would probably end up losing the fight there (no way Ubogin will watch him fix his arm if he wasn't trapped). Him being able to take a Big Bang Punch isn't really useful information anyway, since all he has to know is whether he can hurt someone with his fist after he captured them in Chain Jail.

    Well, he did use In, he also distracted him to keep him from using Gyo, so he could use In on the Jail Chain and capture Ubogin succefully.
    While re-reading the chapters I began thinking about Emperor's Time ability, and I think I could understand it, and I think there's a lot of confusion about it.

    Emperor Time let's you use all kinds of Nen at 100% of their efficiency. It also depends on what level have you developed that particular kind of Hatsu. Which reminds me of Biscuit's training levels.

    So if Kurapica got to level 6 in transformation, he will be able to fight to a level 6 transformation user. Now, if he trained to level 10 Reinforcement, in normal state, he would only be able to fight at 60% of level 10, but on Emperor's Time, he'll be evenly matched. I guess it works that way, depending on training, so normal Hatsu's rules doesn't apply...I might be confused though...

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zvane View Post
    Well, he did use In, he also distracted him to keep him from using Gyo, so he could use In on the Jail Chain and capture Ubogin succefully.
    While re-reading the chapters I began thinking about Emperor's Time ability, and I think I could understand it, and I think there's a lot of confusion about it.

    Emperor Time let's you use all kinds of Nen at 100% of their efficiency. It also depends on what level have you developed that particular kind of Hatsu. Which reminds me of Biscuit's training levels.

    So if Kurapica got to level 6 in transformation, he will be able to fight to a level 6 transformation user. Now, if he trained to level 10 Reinforcement, in normal state, he would only be able to fight at 60% of level 10, but on Emperor's Time, he'll be evenly matched. I guess it works that way, depending on training, so normal Hatsu's rules doesn't apply...I might be confused though...
    Kurapika didn't create any opening. He even said that he was able to capture Ubogin because he stopped to gloat about his power. True, his tactics confused Ubogin, but you're still not supposed to just stop and talk about how awesome you are in the middle of a HXH fight. If Ubogin continued fighting as normal, Kurapika could not have caught him.

    The level system is basically a way to stop Emperor Time from being invinicible. It says your max level is limited by your natural school, so let's say both Ubogin and Kurapika can learn up to level 10 in their current mastery of aura, then Ubogin can learn level 10 Reinforcement and Kurapika can learn level 10 Materialize. The % modifier means Ubogin can only learn up to level 6 Materialize and Kurapika can only learn up to level 6 Reinforcement. Now normally, Kurapika can only use level 6 at 60%, versus Ubogin who is level 10 at 100%. Emperor Time takes him to level 6 at 100%, so he was able to guard Ubogin's attack taking relatively little (by HXH standards) damage. It cannot get him to level 10 at 100% because if it did, he should be able to guard the attack successfully without taking damage.

    Now of course your overall level of mastery of aura can go up over time but we've to assume between characters of similar talents they're fixed, otherwise what's stopping a Specialize type guy from training his level to 1000, and then he gets Reinforcement level 400 at 40%, and assuming level is exactly linear increase, that's still like having Reinforcement level 160 at 100%! From the manga we can infer that training your aura level is a very time consuming process measured in years, and that progress slows down drastically as you get higher. So 'get more levels' is simply not an option at least for similar characters.

    Now of course the Ants definitely start with more aura levels, so to speak. Razor and Biscuit probably has a higher starting aura level than say, Hisoka, since it's hard to imagine Hisoka guarding against either of the two character's Reinforcement-based attack without taking significant damage, even though all these characters are exactly one away from Reinforcement. Of course Biscuit is like 50 years old, and I guess Razor is at least in his 30s compared to Hisoka who is not quite 30 yet, so this is a reasonable difference.

    An interesting observation is that this means Kurapika must be a similar aura level compared to the Spiders (the Spiders certainly plan for him as if he's an equal) despite him having only an year of learning at most compared to guys who must have at least 10+ years. Maybe the Spiders never bought Biscuit's best selling 'how to master Aura in 10 days" book?

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    I still think that the levels as you understand it, Phantron, are wrong. Kurapika broke his arm because simply He didn't rain Reinforcement up to the level of Uvogin. The percentage is the efficiency on the level you are, not a cap in the actual level because there is no cap in levels. There is a correlation, though, between your school and the difference in level in the Hatsus. That means that if you're Conjurer when you reach level 20 of Conjurer you will reach level 16 on Emission. But in the same time, that Emission you use compared to a natural Emission user level 16 is 80% efficient compared to the later.
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  12. #27
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MegamanX195's Avatar
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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    An interesting observation is that this means Kurapika must be a similar aura level compared to the Spiders (the Spiders certainly plan for him as if he's an equal) despite him having only an year of learning at most compared to guys who must have at least 10+ years. Maybe the Spiders never bought Biscuit's best selling 'how to master Aura in 10 days" book?
    I always assumed that was the case due to Emperor Time. Kurapika was shown to have greater strenght in it ever since the Hunter Exam, so it would be no surprise if it increased speed, aura capacity, aura output, etc. Proof of that is show when the Spiders easily speed-blitz Gon and, specially, Killua, who was shown to be many times faster than Kurapika at Hunter Exam. So, unless Kurapika trained in some gravity machine when no one was looking, his speed must come from his trained Emperor Time.

    And on the levels thing, the explanation with levels provided by Kurapika was just an example. I'm pretty sure everyone has different levels in the different types (of course, they're all still proportional). Levels can be trained, as seen in GI. It was never stated the levels had some fixed cap, so I believe they don't. Of course, everyone has different potential, so some people will reach their prime (the point from which it's next-to-impossible to improve anymore) before other people.

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    i think kurapika is too much. even with emperor time, it doesn't mean he can tank those big bang impact with just broken arm. even though he can have 100% talent in all category including reinforcement. his physical strenght and aura should be below ubogin. having 100% capacity doesn't mean you can be as strong as ubogin.

    however, i just came with an idea. actually kurapika can't tank ubogin's bigbang impact. however, that time, kurapika used gyo or kou to protect his arm. and ubo's big bang impact is just normal punch with nen (not gyo or kou). so, it's kind of acceptable. if kurapika had not used gyou or kou, he would have been fatally injured.

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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    But aside of the common Nen basics we have to take in consideration that Kurapika fought with a meaning in that fight that came from his very formation as a persona, while for Uvogin it was just another fight. It's the "Mystic Points" that were mention before.
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  15. #30
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Foreva's Avatar
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    Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

    Kurapika didn't tank the BBImpact. Just before the fist connected, he jumped away to reduce the strike's effect. That's why only his arm was broken. Had he taken Uvo head on, then even with 100% efficiency at Lv 6 of Enhancement, his spine would've been severely damaged. And that would have meant game over for him.


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